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Original poster

Who pays on second date( but first dinner date)

482 replies

Mountainhare · 22/09/2019 07:03

Prob will get slated for this but just being honest
Second date - but first dinner date- with guy I like.
I offered ( said “ do you want me to...” when the bill arrived) and he said “ yes let’s split it”
He had asked me out for dinner and I feel quite traditional in that it would be nice if the guy who has asked you pays for the first time you go for dinner. Not every date, just in this situation maybe
Prepared to be slated though... thoughts please?

OP posts:
Everafter1 · 25/09/2019 11:09

No, I'm not. I like to split and take turns too but it also doesn't fill me with a bitter feeling that I'm being bought or seen as inferior if a man pays a date.

AryaStarkWolf · 25/09/2019 11:14

I like to split and take turns too but it also doesn't fill me with a bitter feeling that I'm being bought or seen as inferior if a man pays a date.

I'm not sure anyone said it would make them feel bitter if the man paid, I mine why would it, they still have the choice to accept the offer or not? Or get the next one etc Grin

Everafter1 · 25/09/2019 11:23

Okay then, maybe more of an insecurity if it makes someone feel that they're undervalued if a man wants to pay. Which is a shame really but it's all down to perception I suppose.

"You get the next one" was a common theme with dp and I at the beginning 😂 until he had to give in and I did get the next one (my face isn't so good at hiding my feelings)

AryaStarkWolf · 25/09/2019 11:30

Well I can only speak for myself, I wouldn't feel undervalued either, I just like to be fair and pay every second time, why are you trying to make that a negative? "Bitter" "Insecure" etc?

itsallverywell · 25/09/2019 11:38

@Everafter1 the issue isn't about feeling personally inferior or being secure enough to accept dinner being bought. It's about tackling the underlying sexism in this tradition and many others. But I accept many women don't want to tackle it, they're happy with it and it suits them. Personally I feel passionate about improving the status and experience of women as a class.

Everafter1 · 25/09/2019 11:38

I wasn't trying to offend you. That's great you don't either, nor should you! It's been a common theme here that men are buying women if they pay for a date, or it means they're expecting sex. If you don't feel that way it shouldn't be causing offence.

AryaStarkWolf · 25/09/2019 11:43

Anytime I mentioned that it was just a counter to the "men who want to split/take turns" are tight and apparently will be "selfish in bed".

I'm sure neither is true in general but may be in some cases

Everafter1 · 25/09/2019 11:44

the issue isn't about feeling personally inferior or being secure enough to accept dinner being bought. It's about tackling the underlying sexism in this tradition and many others.
I accept the bigger picture of sexism, but the same could be said about presuming a man wants to pay for a meal to gain control of a woman. I don't think it's a fair judgement to make.
I'm not of the opinion a man should pay, far from it actually. I think there should be some give and take. People don't always fit neatly into one box. There's ass*** of both genders.

Everafter1 · 25/09/2019 11:49

Anytime I mentioned that it was just a counter to the "men who want to split/take turns" are tight and apparently will be "selfish in bed".

Yeah that's an unfair assumption to make too. I think there's been a lot of that on here. I did say this man in question was tight for not tipping the waiter right enough.

AryaStarkWolf · 25/09/2019 11:50

@Everafter1 definitely agree with your last post

AryaStarkWolf · 25/09/2019 11:51

yeah the tip thing would turn me off too

Everafter1 · 25/09/2019 12:01

yeah the tip thing would turn me off too

Definitely, things like that would make me question if he was unkind in other ways. I couldn't help but wonder if that added to the bigger picture of the OPs concerns about him or if it was as cut and dry about the meal. Anyway, I'm probably just looking into it too much.

wuddenyalike2know · 25/09/2019 12:29

I remember reading a dating profile of a very handsome man and his whole write up was about everything being 50/50 and split and he hates women who don't pay their way. I have to say the way he wrote it was ugly and off putting. My question is what if one or the other earns more? A 50/50 would be unfair particularly if a holiday cost a lot of money each and one couldn't afford 50%. What then? When you have kids and one stays home and gives up work what then? He sounded so stingy the way he wrote it.

I'm lucky that I have been with very generous men and haven't had to worry. I do have my own money too and work hard, so treating them (and their kids in some cases) has never been an issue, but it has always been on my terms (I decide when to treat and pay etc). I have also picked up the bill and given money to step children (lunch, dinner, treats, guven pocket money, even paid for school outings, clothes, shoes etc) with no issue. I am very generous and I don't think it is wrong to expect the same back. To be honest, someone who didn't at least pay on the first date and more over didn't leave a tip, wouldn't get a second date. May I also add that I tend to not join in organised dinners in restaurants with people who don't leave a tip (talking friends/acquaintances here).

I am comfortable with how I run things regardless of what others think or feel.

itsallverywell · 25/09/2019 12:33

I accept the bigger picture of sexism, but the same could be said about presuming a man wants to pay for a meal to gain control of a woman. I don't think it's a fair judgement to make.

Do you though? Your NAMALT response response suggests not. If I earn more than the man next to me, should I not support eradicating the gender pay gap? I'm not interested in an individual's motivations for paying/being paid for. I'm interested in levelling the playing field and that means getting rid of traditions that ultimately feed sexism, however innocently they are implemented by some individuals. That approach won't suit everyone but it's the solution to the bigger picture problem.

AryaStarkWolf · 25/09/2019 12:43

@wuddenyalike2know I'm presuming we're talking more about the dating stage here rather than how you handle stuff like dinner out once you're married and have kids? You're a family unit at that stage, obviously if one of you is a SAHM it would be shitty and abusive to say the person not working has to pay half for holidays etc..........

AryaStarkWolf · 25/09/2019 12:44

SAHP that should read ^^

footorfut · 25/09/2019 12:47

I remember reading a dating profile of a very handsome man and his whole write up was about everything being 50/50 and split and he hates women who don't pay their way. I have to say the way he wrote it was ugly and off putting

I think what's highly off-putting is that he wrote it, not that he thought it.

I have 2 friends who both started dating, then married, very generous men. Both were "treated" and offers to share costs were generally always refused. Both are now divorced and dealing with the aftermath of coercive control by narcissists. Police have been involved with both. CM non-existent. I don't have a big circle of friends or acquaintances and so I would be very wary of a man's insistence on paying based on the experience of these 2 women. It would definitely go in the red flag pot

Everafter1 · 25/09/2019 13:00

itsallverywell
you're adding arms and legs & going off on a tangent.
Your generalisation & assumption about men isn't any less sexist.
People should be taken on their own merit.

itsallverywell · 25/09/2019 13:10

Your generalisation & assumption about men isn't any less sexist.

Now I know you definitely don't understand the bigger picture of sexism, so I'll leave my engagement with you there.

Everafter1 · 25/09/2019 13:26

itsallverywell you don't know, you assume.
I can only go by what you post here. You're set in your ways. I get that, there's probably no reasoning. You did mention before you struggle if a women doesn't have all of your perceived feminist beliefs.

As someone pointed out to you previously you're replacing one set of restrictions with another. I don't believe it's detrimental to our society if a man pays for a date or if a woman pays for a date. Neither is overpowering the other.

Op's date invited her out & if he had his card ready to pay I do think he should've just paid that one. If the shoe was on the other foot I would say exactly the same thing to OP, she should've just paid for the meal. The persons gender has absolutely no bearing on how I think that situation should've been dealt with.

Everafter1 · 25/09/2019 14:08

I'm not interested in an individual's motivations for paying/being paid for
Doesn't make sense, this shouldn't be an issue for you at all then. It's the motivations behind something which would determine if it's a sexist act or not.

ProhibitedRodent · 25/09/2019 14:18

@MarthasGinYard Shock OMG! He took the tip?!

ProhibitedRodent · 25/09/2019 14:24

@NameChange84 Why is not tipping not nice? We're not all on high wages!

So if someone who work 30 hours @ minimum wage in the local shop, goes for a (very rare) meal out and is served by a waiter who also works 30 hours @ minimum wage, the shop worker should tip should they? Why's that?

AryaStarkWolf · 25/09/2019 14:46

@ProhibitedRodent If his reason for not tipping is that he also works a minimum wage job then the OP is even more in the wrong for allowing him to pay even half when it was actually her turn to pay. If he doesn't then it just makes him a bit mean imo

Everafter1 · 25/09/2019 15:06

Unless added to the bill it's not compulsory, but it is kind.

It's often reflected on the level of service you're given. The waiter/waitress is running after you bringing food to your table, taking it away, being attentive to your needs. It goes beyond just ordering off a menu.

For me I factor it into the cost of going out. Even when I was a student & no doubt much poorer than the restaurant staff. It doesn't have to be something big.

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