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Original poster

Who pays on second date( but first dinner date)

482 replies

Mountainhare · 22/09/2019 07:03

Prob will get slated for this but just being honest
Second date - but first dinner date- with guy I like.
I offered ( said “ do you want me to...” when the bill arrived) and he said “ yes let’s split it”
He had asked me out for dinner and I feel quite traditional in that it would be nice if the guy who has asked you pays for the first time you go for dinner. Not every date, just in this situation maybe
Prepared to be slated though... thoughts please?

OP posts:
RavenLG · 23/09/2019 13:18

I honestly don’t understand people equating a man wanting to split the bill as being tight with money. Wanting the man to pay for everything makes YOU tight with money.

I’d tell this man to run away from you to be honest, 14 pages of drama over the semantics of a “first” dinner date. Jesus Christ.

AryaStarkWolf · 23/09/2019 13:19

Wanting the man to pay for everything makes YOU tight with money.

Exactly!

hellsbellsmelons · 23/09/2019 13:27

Wanting the man to pay for everything makes YOU tight with money.
No-one said 'everything'
Dinner should be paid for if they are inviting you out to dinner.
Or they should at least offer!
You can then insist on paying your half if you feel that way or, as I do, I insist on buying all the drinks when we go on after dinner.

Original poster
Mountainhare · 23/09/2019 13:28

hellsbellsmelons- that’s exactly what I meant

OP posts:
KhaleesiTargaryen · 23/09/2019 13:35

Hmm on date one with my Mr G we bought a round each.
On date 2 we went for dinner with a bottle of wine which I estimate came to approximately £80, and he said to please let him get this, as he’d like to. I thanked him and thought that was very kind etc but moving forward I will get the next one, as it wouldn’t sit well with me to allow him to pay all the time.

timshelthechoice · 23/09/2019 13:37

The no tipping would be the dealbreaker for me and the 'give me the cash I only have a card'.

Biancadelrioisback · 23/09/2019 13:38

@Lilena94

I’m in my 20s and 100% would expect a man to pay for me. A lot of women I know would agree with me; ranging from their 70s to late teens! I don’t think it’s an unusual expectation. It’s just being polite isn’t it? It’s the done thing

Okay, so have a think about this. Why was it the done thing? Could it be because way back when, women didn't have access to their own money? They used to go from their father to the husband, often having no or little say over this at all. Men had to pay as women didn't have their own money.
Men used to essential buy women. And since they paid, the woman owed them. So shall we also continue that tradition?
I am not something that can be bought. I am a person who likes to treat others as I would like to be treated. I would not like to go on a date with someone and be expected to pay for them purely because of what I have between my legs.

Lilena94 · 23/09/2019 13:54

@Biancadelrioisback but now it’s just a nice thing to do. If you don’t want a man to pay for you then that’s your prerogative but there’s nothing wrong with many other women wanting a man to pay

Everafter1 · 23/09/2019 14:00

He didn’t want to leave a tip as he says he doesn’t tip
He is tight, I find that mentality a bit rude.

he just had a card so I then had to hand him cash which was a bit strange
Yeah not very seamless is it lol

Also OP has said she expects to contribute to dates and has contributed.

OP I'm all for contributing/splitting however it's to be phrased. I don't think you've conducted yourself in an unreasonable way. You've paid for drinks for you both, you've split the dinner bill & by the sounds of it I'm pretty sure you'd also tip the waiter.

itsallverywell · 23/09/2019 14:00

there’s nothing wrong with many other women wanting a man to pay

There so is.

Lilena94 · 23/09/2019 14:03

@itsallverywell just because you disagree, it doesn’t mean the rest of us can’t appreciate a kind gesture.

Rubicon80 · 23/09/2019 14:09

@Lilena94 If you don’t want a man to pay for you then that’s your prerogative but there’s nothing wrong with many other women wanting a man to pay. it’s just a nice thing to do.

Why, if it's "just a nice thing to do", would it be the man who pays?

Why wouldn't you, as a woman, do something nice for him instead?

Rubicon80 · 23/09/2019 14:10

just because you disagree, it doesn’t mean the rest of us can’t appreciate a kind gesture.

No. You are not "the rest of us". Have you read this thread? Fortunately, the majority of women (on this site at least) still believe in equality.

Biancadelrioisback · 23/09/2019 14:10

@Lilena94
just because you disagree, it doesn’t mean the rest of us can’t appreciate a kind gesture.

What kind gesture do you show them? They are people after all, same as you.
Also, many of us are fighting for equality so the future generations have it better than we did, but it's a hard fight when there are people out there back peddling and standing behind "tradition" when it suits them. In what other sense do you follow tradition? Does a man ask your dad's permission to be with you? Will he pay a dowry?
Without saying "gentlemanly" or "traditional", can you please tell me why a man should pay?

Lilena94 · 23/09/2019 14:13

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

itsallverywell · 23/09/2019 14:15

With respect @Lilena94 I think you need to put a bit more thought into the wider picture rather than settling for seeing it as a nice gesture.

Plenty of pp's have set out reasons why this view is dated and unhelpful to women generally.

Lilena94 · 23/09/2019 14:18

Without saying "gentlemanly" or "traditional", can you please tell me why a man should pay?
When a man has been raised correctly to respect women, he will offer to pay for the entire bill during the early days because it’s polite. The woman doesn’t have to agree, but the man should always offer.

what kind gesture do you show them?
I always pick my dates up and drop them back to their house after. Generally I offer to cook a meal at my house on the third or fourth date or whatever is decided.

itsallverywell · 23/09/2019 14:18

I think you've misread @Rubicon80's post @Lilena94. Rubicon, who is anything but dumb.

Lilena94 · 23/09/2019 14:22

with respect @Lilena94 I think you need to put a bit more thought into the wider picture rather than settling for seeing it as a nice gesture

There is no ‘bigger picture’ and if you think it’s a feminist issue, you need to get with the times- a lot of young women like me are over that now. That’s not the way the world is anymore. Nobody is saying parents should pay a dowry or anything 😂 just take it for what it is without having to overthink everything. It’s no wonder fewer than 1/5 young women call themselves ‘feminist’ nowadays...because it’s so melodramatic

Everafter1 · 23/09/2019 14:24

Unless someone is using someone, running up huge bills, ordering the most expensive things purely because they're not footing the bill it really doesn't offend me. I've always been keen to pay my way with dp because of my own values, not because I'd feel less of an equal in society otherwise.

So what if someone wants to be treated now & again. I take family members out, friends it makes me feel good to treat other people & it's nice for them to feel appreciated. There must be others who feel the same way. Let people give the treat and the other receive. Both ends the scenario are good. It's nice to be nice.

itsallverywell · 23/09/2019 14:30

@Lilena94 it would be helpful if you linked to the BBC article you read so as not to take that statistic out of context. The context being that there was an increase between 2017 and 2018 in women identifying as feminist. And that it is the word rather than the ethos that puts some women off. And that better educated women were far more likely to embrace feminism than less educated women etc.

I hope you enjoy the benefits that melodramatic feminists won for you.

Biancadelrioisback · 23/09/2019 14:31

Okay, so you clearly don't get the point. Saying "it's polite" isn't a reason. And to me, raising my son to treat women as equals does not mean he had to pay for them.
Have you ever heard the story of the monkeys in the zoo?

An experimenter puts 5 monkeys in a large cage. High up at the top of the cage, well beyond the reach of the monkeys, is a bunch of bananas. Underneath the bananas is a ladder.

The monkeys immediately spot the bananas and one begins to climb the ladder. As he does, however, the experimenter sprays him with a stream of cold water. Then, he proceeds to spray each of the other monkeys.

The monkey on the ladder scrambles off. And all 5 sit for a time on the floor, wet, cold, and bewildered. Soon, though, the temptation of the bananas is too great, and another monkey begins to climb the ladder. Again, the experimenter sprays the ambitious monkey with cold water and all the other monkeys as well. When a third monkey tries to climb the ladder, the other monkeys, wanting to avoid the cold spray, pull him off the ladder and beat him.

Now one monkey is removed and a new monkey is introduced to the cage. Spotting the bananas, he naively begins to climb the ladder. The other monkeys pull him off and beat him.

Here’s where it gets interesting. The experimenter removes a second one of the original monkeys from the cage and replaces him with a new monkey. Again, the new monkey begins to climb the ladder and, again, the other monkeys pull him off and beat him - including the monkey who had never been sprayed.

By the end of the experiment, none of the original monkeys were left and yet, despite none of them ever experiencing the cold, wet, spray, they had all learned never to try and go for the bananas.

So what this is saying is you do things a certain way because that's what you've been told is the "done thing" but, in your own experience, there isn't a logically reason for doing that. You're just doing what others have told you is the norm, without really questioning it.
It's the done thing
It's polite
It's tradition
All daft reasons to do anything.

Unless of course you just like getting a free meal in which case you are just tight fisted and grabby. And if that's the case, at least own it.

AryaStarkWolf · 23/09/2019 14:32

So what if someone wants to be treated now & again. I take family members out, friends it makes me feel good to treat other people & it's nice for them to feel appreciated. There must be others who feel the same way. Let people give the treat and the other receive. Both ends the scenario are good. It's nice to be nice.

Of course but that's not the question being asked, it's specifically should it always be the man who treats the woman

Anerak · 23/09/2019 14:33

Always split

itsallverywell · 23/09/2019 14:34

So what if someone wants to be treated now & again. I take family members out, friends it makes me feel good to treat other people & it's nice for them to feel appreciated. There must be others who feel the same way. Let people give the treat and the other receive. Both ends the scenario are good. It's nice to be nice.

I don't think a single poster refutes that. But that's not what we're talking about. This thread is about the expectation that men on 1st/2nd etc date should pay