Who pays on second date( but first dinner date)

[Mountainhare]

Prob will get slated for this but just being honest
Second date - but first dinner date- with guy I like.
I offered ( said “ do you want me to...” when the bill arrived) and he said “ yes let’s split it”
He had asked me out for dinner and I feel quite traditional in that it would be nice if the guy who has asked you pays for the first time you go for dinner. Not every date, just in this situation maybe
Prepared to be slated though... thoughts please?

Gosh I completely think that he expected you to pay for dinner since he paid for the first dates . I reckon he thought he was being nice splitting it with you..

Either way it doesn't seem that there is much interest either side so can't see this working out.

I’d offer to pay but I’d expect a man to insist that he’d pay

Why?

In the past I’d say the man should pay but that was usually because he was the one ‘courting’ the women (plus there was greater financial disparity in the past).

My thoughts have changed due to internet dating, tinder etc. It’s still ‘nice’ to be pay for the first date but people these days seem to go on a date with a new person every week. Which would mean the women never paying for anything and some bloke making himself slowly bankrupt.

I appreciate it might seem tight on the part of the man as a one off but if you’re constantly expected to pay once or even twice a week then the old rules go out the window.

I’d rather split the bill initially rather than just pay for a dinner constantly and never see the person ever again after. An no it’s not trying to ‘buy women’ or feeling entitled to a shag because you paid for dinner before some smart arse responds like this. People just don’t want to be a mug

If it is via the old fashioned of a man asking a women out on a date then I think they maybe should pay but that’s different from tinder or any of the newer ones

OP says upthread that they met in real life not online

I don't think there's any "should pay". The natural fair thing to do is everyone pays their half. That's true in friendships and doesn't magically change for relationships.

Whether this is by splitting the dates themselves in half and each of you paying 100% of that date, or by each of you paying 50% doesn't matter to me. Clearly if you don't know the person and are unsure if you will go on a second date it makes far more sense to go 50/50.

This is my standard - there are then times when either party may wish to treat the other, and if both parties are happy with that then counts as a one-off in my head.

My ex thought I wasn't interested after the first date because I insisted on paying my half. If this had truly been an issue for him, we would never have worked as a couple so it wouldn't really have bothered me if he'd been put off!

Just because men are bastians of equality on first dates in terms of money does not mean it will translate through to marriage and kids. I think they would more likely keep “their money” to themselves and leave the women to “their money,” even when they go part time after kids and they are paying all the childcare bills and buying all the kids clothes and shoes. I’ve seen that happen with cheap guys.

Also if you are online dating regularly yes it costs men more money in terms of the date. But the expectation on women to have lovely hair, makeup, nails as well as be well preened and plucked at all times these days really does ad up. Men can just shit, shower and shave so it probably works out even.

@Bodicea if you're not a nails done, loads of makeup, perfectly coiffed hair etc type of woman then why would you go through the pain of all that to attract someone who wants that? It's pointless. Why would you get on with each other? You can't keep up the facade forever.

The asker pays, usually.

I agree with PPs' comments asking how much you 'charge' to sit there and look pretty? It's a good question and the premise of that makes me squeamish indeed. I would not want my daughter to ever utter the words that you have, OP. It's not 'old fashion' it's just a bit class-less.

If you present yourself as a commodity, you'll be treated as one. Dress for yourself, always.

As for tipping? I do it for excellent service and that's it. If somebody doesn't want to tip it doesn't put me off them, they have autonomy of themselves. Tipping for mediocrity just brings us ever closer to the US route and I'd rather not support that.

Restaurants need to pay their staff properly. End of.

If the man paid for the first date then yes you should pay for the second. Unless it's wildly more expensive, then split it. It's a second date.

The tipping thing I don't agree with but that's clearly quite a split opinion on this thread and he did go along with OP. The one being tight here is the one expecting someone else to foot the bill for two dates bar a few drinks

Of course I dress for myself. I am not on the level of the younger girls I see now. Grew up in grunge era so washed was groomed. But there is no denying that is costs more to be presentable as a woman than it costs to be presentable as a man in general. That coupled with the gender pay gap means we are st a disadvantage from the get go.
So if a guy is generous enough to pay then he goes up in my estimation. I said it wasn’t a deal breaker for me. But he’d be more likely to get a second date.

This kind of question comes up quite often on MN and I’m not sure why people get on their high horses about it, to be honest. There’s no right and wrong here.

There are men who feel they should pay because it’s the more gentlemanly thing to do and there are women who prefer this kind of behaviour in men. That’s fine.

There are other men who believe in the bill-splitting thing and there are women who prefer this too. Also fine.

Nobody is in the 1950s or whatever and nobody needs to be claiming the moral high-ground. Dating is a personal thing. You are attracted to who / what attracts you and this includes behaviours.

It was 18 years ago now, but DH wouldn’t have dreamt of me paying that early on. No he’s not a chauvinist. Yes, I did respect that about him, looking back and I can appreciate a gentlemanly gesture without feeling it threatens “equality.” This is a nonsense argument imo.

I would also be about the no-tipping too. Really??

I would also be confused about the no-tipping too. Really??

Turningtides This kind of question comes up quite often on MN and I’m not sure why people get on their high horses about it, to be honest. There’s no right and wrong here.

There are people who feel they should tip everywhere because it’s the expected thing to do. That’s fine.

There are other people who only tip for good service, people who cannot afford to tip and those who don't agree with tipping. Also fine.

@Bodicea I agree it's disgraceful that hair salons charge more for women than for men for essentially the same service. But I don't see how (apart from that) it costs more for a woman to be more presentable than a man?

I wouldn't want to think that a man paying for my dinner is owed to me because my choice of grooming cost more than his.

Well quite often, the tip is included on the bill anyway. Do people who don’t tip ask for it to be taken off?

I think particularly, if a man is on a date, this not tipping isn’t exactly a great impression, is it?

I went on a date with a man that quibbled about us paying the exact amount as my drink cost £2 more. Stupidly it wasn’t the last date, it turned out he was very comfortable financially

It won’t be popular on here but I would t see him again!

If he asked I would expect him to pay. I don't like splitting bills and would rather take turns to pay so would have offered to pay the whole bill next time.

I would want to split the bill, but I wouldn't see him again because he doesn't tip.

'Doesn't believe in it' is code for 'tightarse'.

I’d wonder if he was too skint or too tight to spend 50 quid in a meal out tbh.

However if I knew I didn’t want to see him again I would pay half! Wouldn’t want to give him the wrong idea.

Yes I would expect him to want to pay, if he was interested. If I knew I wouldn’t see him again though, I would insist on paying for myself, if not the whole thing.

You did a offer to split the bill so you can't really complain that he's then taken you up on your offer.

The meal wasn't horrifically expensive, so £25 plus tip is an acceptable price to pay. If he's been out on a few dates it gets expensive and I certainly wouldn't want to be lumbered with the bill every time just because I was male. As others have echoed it's 2019, women want to be equal and that includes paying their way. It sounds like you went to a restaurant that you both agreed on. Had it been a restaurant of his choosing and you had mentioned it was too expensive, but he's insisted then yes he should have paid.

The tip thing, he has again gone with your preference (and he has tipped). I don't really agree with tipping. The tip (IMO) can sometimes be due to the food, or the atmosphere, I sort of begrudge it being solely give to the wait staff and you never know what a restaurants policy is. I do however tip if I think the service was exceptional and then usually 10% or if it's £51 I'll round up to £60 etc.

@Tweetingmagpie if I was on a second date and had shelled out £44 on the first date and on the second date the other person expected me to pay again in order not to pay £25 (half the bill) then I'd be thinking freeloader and tight and not want to see that person again.

I think the tipping thing is a red herring. I tip (unless service has been truly awful) and as pp pointed out the tip is usually included in the bill anyway. He did agree to the tipping in the end for the bill that the OP was expecting him to pick up.

Clearly from this thread the tippers vs non tippers is an issue so by all means don't see him again for that.

Who will pay on third date?

@NameChange55 that's cringy. Blimey, did the stingey behaviour carry on?