C and the (non-existent) FB messages

[JaysusWept]

Morning all.
Can't believe the last thread filled up!
Thanks so much to everyone for all of your responses and your support. It really was invaluable to me.

According to K, M and D, they've had no response from C to their messages asking her to explain what has gone on and why she's been lying. She's seen the messages, but hasn't replied to any of them. I ended up muting my WA chat last night because it was buzzing constantly Did make me wonder if the chat I was exluded from was as busy...

L has told M that she'd believed C, can't believe she would lie about something as serious as this (nothing about not believing I would do such a thing!) and that she needs to hear what C has to say about it. She hasn't attempted to contact me, and I don't want her to. That friendship is over.

I'm wondering what C will come back with now. Part of me thinks she'll just freeze K, M and D out and not even bother to give an explanation, because how could she explain it?
I'm just so relieved that that's it now - they know I wasn't lying. Although I intend to stay friends with K, M and D, I think my friendship with them will cool slightly. They didn't support me when I needed it, and from their responses/reactions, I'm guessing that they were similarly as gossipy and 'excited' with C and L when this was all going on. I'd hoped they were trying not to take sides, etc - but the way they seem to be almost revelling in this now, with the amount of messaging and speculation - I'm guessing they were speculating about me this way?
It's left a bad taste in my mouth.

OP please send them all the link to this thread!

If they cannot see that by inviting them all round there, she is CLEARLY trying to suck them in & push you further out - then they are dumber than any women I've ever met!!!!

You are exactly the kind of person I would want as a friend. Loyal. Strong. Direct. Unwavering.

OP, this. You are worth hundreds of them.

I absolutely believe you. I am married and I would totally support you. I have been on the rough end of that kind of bullying and I fucking hate people like that. I hope that they all live very small lives and you move into a very happy and stress-free future without any more of this shit!!!

Her dh has definitely left her having realised what a fucking nutbag she is.

This get together that she has arranged is so typical and EXACTLY how my C went about things. It's like they follow the Lying Cunt's version of "The Script"

If your K, M and D are anything like mine, they will be stroking her poor little victim ego to her face then LLF behind her back saying awful things that made even me feel almost sorry for her.

What a shit time for you OP

What a bunch of bitches!

I’ve been another lurker since the beginning!
@JaysusWept I remember reading you’re in Glasgow - I’m in Falkirk. If you want to get together for a coffee / wine, I’d love to be a friend for you. I have no plans this weekend, and more than happy to have you (and DD) round for a natter.
We can check in to my house and add all these MNetters

That check in was incredibly childish. I have never checked in anywhere in my life, let alone for something as trivial as a night in at someone's house. You are doing so well, maintaining your dignity and looking after your daughter. Excluding her really was unforgivable. I suggest that you wash your hands of the lot of them. Don't add fuel to the fire by trying to post anything on Facebook or get an apology, it will only draw things out. I hope that you end up meeting some much nicer people.

God I hate all of those women on your behalf op. I've been on the receiving end of something slightly similar to this and it's a bloody horrible feeling to know that people that should be on your side are not, and to have to sit and wonder what they are saying about you.

You sound lovely. And I'm sorry this has happened to you.

They're awful. I'd block them all on FB. You sound brilliant. Keep your head high. Good luck.

If it is any consolation whatsoever op, it appears C's marriage is over. Her life will never be the same, and for all of the queen bee tendencies (they tend to cost money) and arranging an amazing life of holidays, drinks parties in her big house, well that is about to come to an abrupt end. And one by one those so called friends (who are not friends to anyone in reality) will drop away like flies, when they realise the good times are up, or they are savaged by her on a bad day.

For you this is the end of an upsetting chapter, for her I believe fresh hell has only just began.

Whilst you will go on to make friends as lovely as you, the same can not be said for her. What comes around, goes around. They are just about to find out.

@captainpantbeard no shit sherlock..... Jeez, forgive me for trying to lift the mood.....

And who cares if it actually turned out to be Cs.... If she can spout to randoms, why couldn't randoms spout to her? Giving her a taste of her own medicine isn't an unjust suggestion.....

Well done OP for sharing your thoughts with K and M and shame on them for not saying “sorry doll, I’ve been a bit of a dick, think we can move on from this? gonna cancel on C tonight and take a step back from her drama for a bit”

Sadly they’re too weak to make a decision for themselves.

Checking in on Facebook with big Chummy McChums photos is the definition of lame.

Demote these cows from your timeline

With the WA, op could technically create a new watch app with their numbers and add all of ours if we all pm'd her our numbers.

I'm really hoping that once the other 3 have now had chance to talk face to face and have got to hear what C has said for herself, that they'll have questioned her and put her in her place over you (and also come to the same conclusion as you, that's she's become a little unhinged)

You've got to remember that up until a couple of weeks ago you considered her a close friend and if she had done this to one of the others, you wouldn't have took it at face value but would have gone round and found out what was going on face to face.

Hopefully you'll get a clearer picture about what C is playing at today from the other 3. I would certainly try and meet up with them this weekend rather than not and let them see how hurt you are. N

I wish there were MORE books and studies done about this weird pattern of behaviour that seems to repeat itself again and again and again amongst predominantly female friendship groups. I posted in the other thread with support as I went through similar madness at uni and it really traumatised me for years (I was young and MASSIVELY over emotionally invested and vulnerable).

It was only joining mumsnet and seeing how many perfectly nice women have been through almost identical situations! One small variation being Wendying! There has to be a sociological reason this takes place, it’s real pack mentality.

OP a book that helped me make sense of the ‘pattern’ was Queen Bees and Wannabes - even though meant for teenage girls . It really laid out that this is a well worn path.

Off to google this Susan Forward.

That FB check in is contemptible.

OP, i hope you are able to move on from this quickly.

I can see that none of them are your friends, they certainly aren't worthy of you.

@JaysusWept

Read both your threads and really sorry this has happened to you. They're not your friends and you are much better off without.

If you ever need someone (sane!!!!!) to talk to I'm only 20 mins away from Glasgow please feel free to message me. Hope you are ok x

@JaysusWept I hope you’re OK. This is such a horrible thing to go through. I’m yet another person who has experienced a variant of it and it is so unnecessary and unpleasant. They really will now always be conscious of what has happened and their roles in it.

Just read both threads and I can't get over how poorly your 'friends' have behaved. They automatically sided with C without questioning it. They will be the ones who look stupid when the truth comes out.

Keep your head held high you have done nothing wrong.

Hope you’re ok op, and have got a fun day lined up for you and your dd.

OP - I have posted on your threads under (different user name) from page 1. I am shocked that you are still engaging with this group - YOU are feeding this now and this will severely affect your DD for years. This is what ElspethFlashman said - and many others have advised you to have this strategy.

“Don't respond at all. Cos mean girls like to gaslight. "OMG I TOLD YOU IT WAS ABOUT A GIRL IN WORK, PARANOID MUCH??!!"

You'd be set up to look crazy and unstable.

You literally cannot accuse them of bitching about you, you have no proof and it'll be weaponised against you. Cos newsflash, C doesn't like you anyway, for doing nothing, so this would give her actual ammunition.

If she'd bitching about you behind your back now, imagine the bitchery after you make her feel bad about herself???

My advice is to plan a campaign of very targeted indifference. How do you do that?

1. Always be too busy. On text, always give the impression of being too busy to engage with someone as unimportant as them. Either "forget" to answer entirely, or answer a day late going "oops, thought I answered this, lol, sorry can't make it that night, up to my eyes x". Needless to say, screen calls.

1. Never ever ask her any questions about herself or her child. If forced to spend time on the school run, talk about Boris Johnson or literally anything other than her. If she talks about herself, nod and change the subject to Boris Johnson.

1. Don't respond directly to her on group WhatsApp. Only respond to other people's jokes, never hers. No emojis.

The point of all this pettiness? Is that you cannot disentangle her from your life, you can't ghost her. But she's not your friend, and you can certainly choose your level of engagement.

Oh and BTW L is not your friend either. That text wasn't the first time they've discussed your "stupid" laugh.

The only thing that really kills drama Queens is indifference. Don't feed them.”

You have been given the same consistent advice from a group people with bitter experience of the “mean girl dynamic” the “Queen Bee and Wanna-bee”. It is a whole system not just C - you keep poking it and you and now your daughter keep getting stung. You did nothing wrong - but these types don’t play by normal social rules.

Without sounding dim @Inishoo are you suggesting the OP take the same approach with the others as well as C?

As it would make TOTAL sense if so... seeing as I don’t think C would ever make contact directly with the OP again

@PaulHollywoodsSexGut - 100%

Elspeth posted this on p2 of original thread. Where would OP and OP DD be if she had followed this advice?

Every single thing you do or say to these people is weaponised / escalated to attack you back.

There has to be a sociological reason this takes place, it’s real pack mentality.

I find this really interesting. This is pure speculation on my part - I'm no social anthropologist - but I suspect this harks right back to the early survival of our species. Humans (unusually) are designed to live well beyond our child-bearing years. Older groups cared for children whilst younger women worked, and they banded together in larger groups and wet-nursed each other's children. Men would hunt in smaller groups and were less dependent on the pack mentality for individual survival.

Imagine the power vested in a society like that for people who misbehaved? If the group excluded you, you were dead. It was that serious. You'd have to fend completely for yourself, forage alone, be more vulnerable to being picked off by carnivorous predators or poisonous creepy-crawlies who populated the plants you'd have to eat to survive. (Maybe that's why women as former gatherers are often more scared of creepy-crawlies than men)?

Women also didn't have the same physical strength to mete out punishment, so hit on the method of excluding 'wrongdoers' as a mechanism for their own survival. And we've retained that part of our make-up. We need to belong in order to live, hence being excluded is still as devastating for us as it was for our ancestors. You can see how the pattern repeats itself with C et al, and from the repetition of the same story it's far from an uncommon situation. (This isn't a misogynistic rant against women, BTW, and the issue has two sides. All the people who have seriously abused me in my life have been men, and my saviours have always been other women).

Re. the Susan Forward recommendation, her books take a case study approach and she deals with non-defensive communication in many of them. I'm completely with her on her central thesis, which is that the minute you engage and begin to defend yourself, you've lost. Here's a link that might be useful.

www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/2exp6i/resource_guide_to_nondefensive_responses_boundary/

Positive thoughts to OP.