So confused as to where this is going

[Fat2fit]

I was in a relationship for a number of years. We always got on really well on a general level we have a lot of shared interests, humour and values, enjoy each other's company. But we always had lots of hang ups around sex...we both hid lots of parts of ourselves to be the perfect vanilla partner. We also or mainly me did a really poor job of communicating at all. Our sex life dwindled to nothing, with there being many occasions where he felt rejected and unwanted and eventually he ended things.

Fast forward a few months and he got back in contact. He was seeing someone else but felt she was second best to me etc. So we agreed to try again. We said we'd take it very slowly, go on dates and talk properly about all these issues. We started about a month ago and up to this weekend had no real physical contact.

On Friday I went to see him for the weekend (he lives a few hours away now but still works near me in the week). I said I felt I was in the friend zone. He admitted he was strugglng to see how we'd restart something physical as he felt very awkward. Anyway we shared a bed cuddled and this led to kissing, some heavy petting etc. So far so good. We spoke about how we wanted to go further the next night and perform oral sex on each other...this was something we never did in our relationship as we both believed the other didn't like it (this wasnt true at all)

On Saturday we went out for drinks. I have lost a lot of weight recently and rarely drink now. I got massively pissed which wasnt intentional at all and when we got home basically passed out. Apparently he tried to go down on me but I was dismissive etc (tbh I dont remember). I get that he was hurt and that it was a massive fuck up by me - I've not been that drunk in about 15 years or more. But now he's saying because this has overtones of how I made him feel rejected in the past he cant allow himself to be hurt.

His solution is that we take sex off the table for an indeterminate period. He says we didn't have sex before so why does it matter? But the point is that this is meant as a new start. I dont want to go back to what we had. And it feels if I agree to this we'll never get a normal physical relationship.

Am I being completely unfair?

Maybe I have clouded things on this thread by referring to the Madonna / whore thing. What I said was it was kind of like that. Not a full on psychologically diagnosed complex. It's a shorthand way to describe it ut maybe better expressed as:

Due to his upbringing/ background/ past experiences he sees certain sex acts and aspects of sex as less 'nice' than others. Whilst he desired those he didnt think that he could ask that of a woman he loved and cherished or that she would want to do them (reinforced by previous partners saying they wouldn't do X or Y).

Perhaps that's a better but more lengthy explanation.

And thanks mollycoddle77. We are arranging therapy.

I have an incredibly traumatic past, starting with sexual abuse at the age of 14. I also had a three year relationship in which I was beaten, raped and tortured daily. That’s just two of the majorly traumatic things in my past so your assumption that only those with out trauma in their history find it easy to have those conversations because that just isn’t true, as much as I’m sure you’d like it to be so it’ll fit your narrative. I’ve had an awful past but when I met my dh it was easy to have conversations about sex, likes and dislikes, insecurities etc because I was with the right person. Sex has always been open, loving and enjoyable (amazing, actually) and never the bloody chore and mountain of issues it seems to be with you and your “boyfriend”. You just aren’t right together. Move on.

I'm sorry for what youve been through. I think you've misunderstood the point I was making about our lives...it was kn response to a PP suggesting our lives were easy and free of any pressures etc.

I'm glad for you that you have no communication difficulties with your partner. Some of us have to work at that, it's not as simple as they're just not right for you. I've had upwards of 50 sexual partners and it's only now with him I am having those discussions, and building a plan for our future.

I do understand what your saying, I just honestly think that you and he aren’t meant to be. You shouldn’t have to work at building a future, especially not in the beginning. You’ve tried this twice and it’s just hard work and heartache, I can’t see that changing. Your a few months in, you shouldn’t have to be looking into therapy.

Oh I think they should be looking into therapy, but not joint.

We're looking at both joint and individual therapy.

You're trying to shag a man who thinks that nice girls don't fuck in specific fun ways.

He went into a strop because you wouldn't fuck the way he wanted.

...
It's really hard to read you explain how this is totally ok and normal and just a normal bump in the sexual road. I hope you wake up a bit tbh.

@mollycoddle77 I totally get where you and OP are coming from, but at the same time if you decide to reconnect there should be an element of starting afresh and being a bit excited, not dragged down and confused. I get that the issues are still present, but personally if you split because of said issues and then reconnect, you'd expect the issues to have been tackled or at least opened up about with a view to tackling for it to be beneficial to both parties.

Like I said, seems that the OP and her boyfriend have had a discussion regarding this and are making progress, so tbh my thoughts are irrelevant

how or who I am affecting by working towards a relationship with this man. Just throwing around the overused and meaningless word toxic Well, to answer your question, by toxic I meant damaging to others - that is usually what it is intended to mean in this context - it most certainly isn't meaningless.

Damaging to others how? People are not islands - when they treat each other badly they affect people around them. I am guessing you are basically trying to maintain now is that what you said about him originally (ie the awful things I referred to in my last post) were not true, and you said it because you were upset and hungover. I don't think it is normal to say things like that which are untrue about someone you love however upset or hungover you are. If you are behaving like this to him you are almost certain treating other people in your life badly too, without realising it. The majority of people I know treat others well, and observing someone treating others badly is upsetting. Any children involved will be affected - including older children.

I think that your language and attitude to anyone who disagrees with you on this thread alone speaks volumes.

People listening to what you say and and judging you (or getting manipulated by you...) when you subtly try to rewrite history is nothing to do with courts of law. Honesty is not just for a court of law, for most people.

You said you had a little bit of narcissism - narcissism is not the same thing as confidence. Confidence is life affirming, narcissism is damaging.

Anyway - I am finding all this triggering now so I am going to try to ignore the thread.

What a crock.

Just one last thing:

He is happy, and really enjoying his life in a way I haven't seen him do for several years, which I am really pleased about

"enjoying his life in a way I haven't seen him do for several years" - ie the years with you. He is happy because he has been away from you for a few months, and he isn't currently in a relationship with you?

Don't drag him down again.

If you love him, let him go.

If you love him, let him go.

And no I don't buy that he is happy because he is talking to you. Show him this thread, do. Please. If he isn't dangerous (which you are saying now) show him the full thread. Put your money where your mouth is - you wanna start afresh, being honest with him this time? That is what you are saying? All of that hiding of the less nice parts of yourself is in the past?
Show him the thread.

I've no idea where you have seized the idea he's dangerous. How odd.

He was very happy in our first few years together. He/ we then experienced some significant and traumatic events which initially made us closer as we supported and helped each other. As life began to return to 'normal' this made the issues and difficulties between us more visible, if you will. We struggled to address those issues and eventually split up. During that latter period and indeed while we were apart he was unhappy. We both agree, whatever you may conclude from this, that our lives are better when the other is in it.

And no I won't be showing him this thread just like I wouldn't ask or expect to see anything he may post in various fora. But we have discussed everything I have said here and more and whatever views I have espoused here are those I have also shared with him.

I've no idea where you have seized the idea he's dangerous. How odd
A man who has a madonna/whore complex and who goes down on women when semi conscious is likely to be or become dangerous. The only odd thing is that you seem to think everyone reading this should forget you wrote it and dance to your tune.

So he is absolutely fine with you saying the above about him? And telling people about the fact he is an abuse survivor? He has no issue at all with it, and he is happy and excited about the prospect of having a really great relationship with you?

Like other threads you have started about this, it is moving sands.
Your paragraph in your last post starting "He was very happy..." sounds great! Absolutely great! If you start a new thread under a new username and present your rewritten history like this you will get totally different responses!

But it isn't real, is it?

I don't think you will get together (or if you do, a similar thing will happen) and I think you will be again confused, angry, upset, wanting to lash out. If that happens, read this thread again and don't lash out, at him or anyone else. Get therapy.

Anyway, as I said, this is all too triggering for me now. So please don't direct any more comments in my direction. Good luck to you.

Gosh how melodramatic!

I'm not sure what 'other threads' you're referring to either..maybe you have me confused with someone else?

I never said he has a Madonna/ whore complex. I am not psychologically trained. I said 'kind of a Madonna-whore thing' as a means of explaining what he has expressed to me about how he found it difficult historically to voice his wants. I obviously should have expressed this differently. That was an error on my part.

I wasn't semi conscious. I was drunk, as was he. He realised how drunk I was probably a few seconds later than had he been sober himself and stopped. I do remember enough through the drunken fog to know that. I've never said or suggested he took advantage whilst I was drunk or that his behaviour was in any way inappropriate. Because he didn't and it wasn't.

The simple fact of it is we are both attracted to each other. We agreed to take things slow, went out got a bit drunk and because we are attracted to each other thought we'd take it further. However we got more drunk.
..I certainly got so drunk that we couldn't and in my drunken state before passing out I managed to make him feel rejected, hurt and disappointed. I'm sure if positions were reversed I'd feel the same. But we have now spoken are back on the same page which I am pleased about as is he.

As far as letting him go is concerned when he ended things I did exactly thar. I was overjoyed when he contacted me again and explained he regretted his decision and wanted us to try again. But I didn't pursue him or set out to win him back or guilt him into a return or anything of that nature.

OP STATES
I got massively pissed which wasnt intentional at all and when we got home basically passed out. Apparently he tried to go down on me but I was dismissive etc (tbh I dont remember).

So now your story is completely different. This thread is illogical

yy to pp. But OP is saying that we all misunderstood....

OP, seriously - you have to see how you are not only making things up, you appear to be truly believing what you make up. You need help to get back to some basic building blocks of YOU - what you really think, what you really believe, not trying to change events to make them seem more bearable. It seems every time you are faced with challenges you either lash out, or "cut out dead wood" (leaving other people reeling) or just completely re-write history.

Imagine him telling you he wanted to move on. That he had loved you and thought you were amazing, but that he has moved on. What would you do?

Imagine he said he wanted to be with someone else. What would you do?

Maybe he had that drink with you because you had said you had turned your life around, changed your attitudes. And he sat and watched you get tipsy and the next day told you that he had made a mistake -that he wants to be there or to be friends (I don't know) but to hold off on the relationship.

In your shoes I would show the thread as I would have nothing to hide and in this instance it is important. Not every post you ever post online - but this thread is about him. And you.

And I am not being melodramatic - this is real life, not melodrama.

Ok saying I basically passed out is to differentiate it from a return home after a normal evening where I would take off clothes, hang them up, put pyjamas on, take off my make up, brush my teeth etc. This was more of a fumble on the bed, me saying I wasn't up for it/ being a bit dismissive (and yes I dont remember what exactly I said but as my hangover cleared I remember enough to know it was along those lines)

Mynewbeamer, you really are quite a strange person arent you?

Why have you ignored my comments about him wanting me back? That I had and did let him go without any attempt to chase him- because he had made his decision and that was that. So how does that fit with your narrative? Or are you saying that I'm lying about that too and actually I've chased him and that I never left him alone after we broke up?! (which is utterly wrong. Like I said I was pretty devastated by it. But his choice. I thought he wanted to go and I let him. And that is exactly how it happened- whether that fits with your prejudged ideas about me - all from a few posts! - or not)

Have you given and received oral in previous relationships?

I have yet to meet a person that hasn't. (Yes it is freely discussed nowadays as normal sex)

I guess what everyone is struggling with is..

You both find each other sexually attractive

You both want to be with each other

You have both (presumably) had oral sex in previous relationships

Why is there therefore a barrier between you? You have 6 years in the bag. You should be ripping each other's clothes of, not undergoing NATO talks.

You have really back-pedalled on so much of what you initially said in the thread, it's quite frustrating to read.

So - I'm sure everything will be great and you're no doubt perfect for each other. Best of luck.

This thread is really weird. Healthy adults who fancy eachother have sex. It doesn't require endless discussion - it just happens naturally. If this bloke doesn't want to have sex with you OP it's because... he doesn't want to have sex with you.

The nice girls do this/don't do that is just archaic. How on earth do two people in a relationship successfully keep the sexual sides of themselves hidden for six years? Seriously, this thread is very very strange.

Mynewbeamer, you really are quite a strange person arent you?

Or this is you getting mean because I keep raising inconsistencies in your story?

Why have you ignored my comments about him wanting me back?
I said that I found it hard to take anything you said at face value and explained why. Also because the words you used to describe what he had said to you about not wanting sex for the foreseeable future was not promising, and it sounded like he was saying he didn't want a relationship, and it did not sound like hangover talking. Also because in vino veritas - if you two were really into each other, do you not think that as soon as you got mildly tipsy you would have been tearing each other's clothes off?

I am not being mean saying the above and I am not saying I am definitely right. Me saying that I thought your behaviour might be manipulative and dishonest might sound mean but I didn't mean it to be gratuitously mean. I am pointing out inconsistencies so that you are aware and so that you can process, and so if things do go pear shaped in the future you aren't going to be all at sea.

Things will be fine. Everything will work out just as it should if you let it. If it isn't him, there will be someone better, someone you are more suited to. You clinging to him is you clinging to the idea that something is missing from you - it isn't - he came into your life to highlight something which was missing and now it isn't missing, and the answer is within you now.

Also someone wanting someone back doesn't mean they won't change their mind and realise they made a mistake - that they will or won't - it doesn't mean anything either way, really.