So confused as to where this is going

[Fat2fit]

I was in a relationship for a number of years. We always got on really well on a general level we have a lot of shared interests, humour and values, enjoy each other's company. But we always had lots of hang ups around sex...we both hid lots of parts of ourselves to be the perfect vanilla partner. We also or mainly me did a really poor job of communicating at all. Our sex life dwindled to nothing, with there being many occasions where he felt rejected and unwanted and eventually he ended things.

Fast forward a few months and he got back in contact. He was seeing someone else but felt she was second best to me etc. So we agreed to try again. We said we'd take it very slowly, go on dates and talk properly about all these issues. We started about a month ago and up to this weekend had no real physical contact.

On Friday I went to see him for the weekend (he lives a few hours away now but still works near me in the week). I said I felt I was in the friend zone. He admitted he was strugglng to see how we'd restart something physical as he felt very awkward. Anyway we shared a bed cuddled and this led to kissing, some heavy petting etc. So far so good. We spoke about how we wanted to go further the next night and perform oral sex on each other...this was something we never did in our relationship as we both believed the other didn't like it (this wasnt true at all)

On Saturday we went out for drinks. I have lost a lot of weight recently and rarely drink now. I got massively pissed which wasnt intentional at all and when we got home basically passed out. Apparently he tried to go down on me but I was dismissive etc (tbh I dont remember). I get that he was hurt and that it was a massive fuck up by me - I've not been that drunk in about 15 years or more. But now he's saying because this has overtones of how I made him feel rejected in the past he cant allow himself to be hurt.

His solution is that we take sex off the table for an indeterminate period. He says we didn't have sex before so why does it matter? But the point is that this is meant as a new start. I dont want to go back to what we had. And it feels if I agree to this we'll never get a normal physical relationship.

Am I being completely unfair?

OP my money is on you not distancing yourself from the relationship and that this is going to go on until something outside yourselves - fate, whatever - steps in and puts a stop to it.

@BertrandRussell thinks that he is a stinker who is sulking because you said no to sex.

But what you say actually happened was that you were out of your brains (you weren't mixing alcohol with medication were you?) and CANNOT REMEMBER HIM GOING DOWN ON YOU. Have you any idea how awful that sounds? How could he possibly not realise you were that drunk? And the bits about whores and ... then saying but he is so nice day to day... yet he is apparently using some other woman for sex... and ... well... there is more, isn't there?

I find it really hard to take what you say at face value, not because I think you are trolling but because I think that he rejected you and you are now seeking comfort and support on mumsnet, and at the same time you cannot bear the idea of losing him, and so convincing yourself that this is your future.

He was hardly rejecting me when he was going down on me was he? Yes he kind of has since then but I think thats based on how he feels I have rejected him. Though really that's not going to help either of us move forward.

Yes he used a woman for sex after we broke up, that's all over now anyway . She knew the score. I don't see an issue, I shagged around a lot in the past and used men for sex myself and vice versa.

I don't drink much usually, but in the past I was always quite alcohol tolerant. However I was also a lot heavier then. I remember feeling tipsy on the journey home and then very quickly just totally pissed once we got back and it's a real blur. He's never seen me drunk, I don't present as being pissed (or at least i never used to) so I can understand why he wouldn't know at first. If I'd seemed more drunk or been sick or something I'm sure he wouldn't have tried and we wouldn't be where we now are.

I don't need to convince myself he's my future. I know he is. I also acknowledge that some form of therapy to try and unravel the issues between us seems like the best way forward.

But he does reject you sexually which is why you have posted for advice. You have no sex life with this man. Whatever the reasons are, they seem to be his hang ups not yours. Instead of communicating properly with you about this, he seems unwilling to discuss the 'going down' incident and takes his bat and ball home (pun intended) by taking sex off the table because he feels rejected. He sounds like hard work and you must be a saint to want to put up with that kind of behaviour. He's unable to communicate and puts the blame on his inability to perform sexually back into you by saying he feels rejected but he's perfectly fine shagging another woman. It just doesnt make sense. Sex should be about intimacy so why cant he sleep with the woman he loves?

Yes there's nothing wrong with having a one night stand but it's the fact that he seems to have told you alot more detail about this person than is really warranted considering the fact that you are trying to reconcile. The fact that he was attracted to her and was able to have sex with another woman in a way that he cannot with you is understandably hurtful so i don't understand his motives for telling you this other than to make you feel jealous.

It's clear you have made your mind up to stay with this man but it's also clear he has some issues going on that only he can choose to work on. I think he is unable to give you what you need to be fulfilled at this point in time and if he truly loved you, he would leave you be until his issues are resolved (if they ever can be). I've learned the hard way that you cannot change anyone else, they have to want to do it themselves.

But OP, crucially, you don't remember what happened. You told us you passed out or blacked out. He says he tried it on and you were dismissive and now has taken sex off the table.

With his level of issues around sex, he could be saying this to a. put sex off and b. to make out it's your fault for "rejecting" him.

“If I'd seemed more drunk or been sick or something I'm sure he wouldn't have tried and we wouldn't be where we now are.“
Big of him!

My take on this as a man.

He wants you, after all he contacted you again. He has some hangups around sex but wants to make it work. It's hard for both of you to rediscover your sex life together.

He took the plunge and went down on you. You rejected him and his worst fears were realised.

You got pissed. You behaved as you did because you got pissed. This situation is resolvable. Talk to him. Tell him you were so drunk you had no idea what was happening. Explain you're sorry. You do want him and really regret what you did. Take it slow, lots of encouragement and give him a bit of slack considering. Pick the right time and ask him if you can give him a BJ. And for god's sake keep away from the booze until you are both comfortable with each other.

To me he sounds like a decent guy, just needs some time and encouragement. Worth giving it another try.

I would take his assertion that he had sex with someone else with a pinch of salt tbh given the issues he’s had with you, and the fact that he now wants to take it off the table again. He clearly has some issues around sex but by telling you he’s fine with someone else he conveniently puts the blame onto you for your sex life together being shit.

All this talking and debating that goes on between you,doesn't seem to be producing any good things for you both. It doesn't seem to be like a normal man, woman relationship, and must be very frustrating for both of you. and kind of mentally exhausting.

I would never give advice, but hope something better will happen for you at a later date.

How could he not realise how drunk you were when he went down on you- if you had no idea then you must have been practically unconscious! That in itself is ikky, then to blame you and guilt trip you is even worse! He sounds awful. Getting back together is always tough and rarely works in a relatively normal relationship- this has everything stacked against it on top of that! But you sound like you’ll forgive him for anything because he’s told you that you’re better than the others.. You’ve sounded like you’re making excuses for him throughout the whole thread.

All the talking has only been in the last few weeks since we resumed contact. Prior to that we never really spoke about this aspect of our relationship which was part of the problem...we are trying to clear a backlog of conversation that built up over years.

I know what I did wasnt great. I want to work past it. I honestly almost never drink so there is pretty much zero chance of me repeating what I did. But he feels rejected like he did in our past relationship - he feels like nothing has changed even though it has. And I don't know if I can convince him otherwise. I love him and deeply regret hurting him again, it was a stupid mistake. I dont know if that is enough though.

“And I don't know if I can convince him otherwise. I love him and deeply regret hurting him again, it was a stupid mistake. I dont know if that is enough though.”

Exactly how did you hurt him? You were drunk and you did not want sexual contact with him. This is entirely fine.

When you love someone, you naturally feel attracted to that person and you want to have sex with that person. He doesn't want to have sex with you, he is not attracted to you, even though you don't want to accept that. He can have sex with other women though??? The only time he actually tried something with you, was when you passed out from being completely drunk, what does that say about him? You are obsessed with him, he likes the attention but he doesn't love you!

All that Madonna Who're thing is a massive red herring OP.

When you have to over analyse a relationship to extent you've been doing, take it as a signal this relationship really doesnt seem to have the right chemistry.

You're flogging a dead horse. You said you don't have any interest for other people but I don't think you've given yourself the space to try looking.

In your situation I'd rather be single than compromise to this extent. It sounds very empty and unfulfilling.

I'm sorry but you are an adult and you can have a few drinks without your titanic of a relationship sinking surely?

It looks very clear from the outside that he wanted an excuse to take sex off the table and this is quite flimsy but adequate because you are deluded .

There is nothing anyone can say to you to make you see what is obvious to everyone else. He feels safe in this relationship because he knows that any behaviour will be tolerated, absorbed even, and he will not be held to account. Ever.

I wish you all the luck in the world. You will need it.

You seem desperate to take the responsibility for this, but if you were that drunk that you can't remember, he shouldn't have been attempting sex anyway (and you don't know that he did or that you "rejected" him.)

You have a lot of what he says about things vs his actions -

• that he is highly sexed, (but conveniently with other women - which chips at your self esteem).

Vs action - when you were together, actually very little sex.

He says

• he wants a vibrant sexlife with you

Vs action - takes sex off agenda at first opportunity.

I can remember enough although it is very hazy to know that how I reacted probably came across quite negatively. That wasn't my intention of course.

We had agreed to take things slowly and not rush anything - we are not even saying we are in a relationship again yet because we are still mainly talking. Its important that before Friday we hadn't even kissed for months.

However I will admit I got carried away and pushed things further than we'd agreed. And having done that then rejected him even if not intentionally.

Oh dear God! Neither of you are emotionally equipped to deal with whatever the problem is. You weren’t the first time and history is repeating itself.

If you insist on throwing the dice again, see a professional, teen angst isn’t a good look for non teenagers.

The level of sexual immaturity displayed on both sides of this entanglement isn’t going to resolve itself, without both of you being prepared to work through your hang ups. In my opinion, the idea of this relationship is much greater than the reality.

Is it possible he is aroused by unconscious women? Alot of serial killers/sexual sadists have madonna/whore complexes and prefer incapacitated victims.

Just seems really messed up that he would choose to initiate sex/be aroused when you were unable to consent (rape/sexual assault IMHO) and then blame you for being too drunk to reciprocate.

Any normal person would apologise for their appalling behaviour rather than blame you for their perceived "rejection". He sees women as objects for his own gratification.

But did he go down on you, OP? Are you sure? When I said rejection this is what I was referring to:

But now he's saying because this has overtones of how I made him feel rejected in the past he cant allow himself to be hurt. His solution is that we take sex off the table for an indeterminate period.

I would quite honestly take this to mean: "I don't want sex with you and I don't want to be in a relationship with you but I also don't want drama or tears and I am worried about how you will react so I am not going to be clear about this and I will let you work it out for yourself."

If you are not sure I am right, call his bluff - tell him you are you really sorry but it is over and you want to cut out all contact, and I think he will move on pretty quickly - sorry. I actually think you are really bad for each other, to be honest. Has he changed since he has known you? Did you feel you had to lose weight to get him back?

I think that if a man and woman in your situation were into each other you would have been ripping each other's clothes off as soon as they had the chance - overweight or not - and not having the sort of conversations you are having.

Is it possible he is aroused by unconscious women? Alot of serial killers/sexual sadists have madonna/whore complexes and prefer incapacitated victims

I might be able to explain what is happening here. I know people who love sex, frequent sex, every couple of days if possible with the right person, but straight sex - open minded about what other people do, but things like oral sex, anal sex and so on just don't do it for them - and this isn't being vanilla - it is just sexual preferences and they would not be compatible with someone who was really into different things. Did he say that? He said that he wasn't sure he'd want to be with someone who was into certain things, simply to do with being compatible?

OP - for some reason you decided you want to have a future with this man. And you keep coming up with logical explanations and justifications.
He seems to he confused as to what he actually wants. I think he also feels that in all areas other then sex you two work well. So he is trying to psych himself up to have a relationship and possibly get sex to something more acceptable to him.

Sadly - it does seem that the sexual side of your relationship isn’t there really. Attraction can’t be forced with logic.
He had no problem being attracted and sexual with the other woman he dated. And coming up with psychological theory for that may make you feel better - but you don’t know if it actually applies to him, OR he may simply not feel that way about you.
Sorry

Oops - posted too soon.
Meant to say that one of the solutions for you two maybe to have a less sexually focused relationship - if you are so intent to be together.
And let each other explore sexuality outside of the relationship

I don't need to convince myself he's my future. I know he is. Does he have a choice? If he finished with you, would you punish him?

In your shoes, if you love him as you say you do, I would be encouraging him to be doing whatever is best for him, whatever makes him happy, even if it might mean being in a relationship with someone else, and possibly the two of you just being friends.

I am physically attractive. I was when I was fat and I am now I'm not. I know that he is attracted to me and always has been. I'm not concerned that he doesn't fancy me in terms of physical attractiveness because he clearly does. I appreciate attraction goes beyond physicality but we have that too.

I certainly didn't lose weight to win him back. I have lost a person worth of weight most of that while we were together as I felt unfit and wanted to improve my health and appearance. I lost more weight since we split as I am still working towards my goal.

I'm obviously not explaining this clearly but we are not in a relationship at thr moment...we are working towards that but taking it slowly to try and resolve the issues that caused problems before. He very much wants that to continue and can't be without me (his words). So I know he doesnt want to lose me or get rid of me or whatever.

I dont really understand what's meant about the compatible point. We both enjpy oral sex both giving and receiving but we thought the other didnt...hence it was something we never did in the past but were keen to explore in future once we got to that stage.

I don't get what you mean about punishing him. What an odd comment.

We split up months ago. I was very sad. I didn't contact him at all as I felt we were done and there was no point. He contacted me some time later to explain and to say he wanted to try again.

I've got plenty of friends. I can get sex anywhere and I've never had any problem in the past finding a man purely for sex. However the only person I really want to have sex with is also the only person I want to be in a relationship with and thats him.