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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

So confused as to where this is going

174 replies

Fat2fit · 16/09/2019 00:40

I was in a relationship for a number of years. We always got on really well on a general level we have a lot of shared interests, humour and values, enjoy each other's company. But we always had lots of hang ups around sex...we both hid lots of parts of ourselves to be the perfect vanilla partner. We also or mainly me did a really poor job of communicating at all. Our sex life dwindled to nothing, with there being many occasions where he felt rejected and unwanted and eventually he ended things.

Fast forward a few months and he got back in contact. He was seeing someone else but felt she was second best to me etc. So we agreed to try again. We said we'd take it very slowly, go on dates and talk properly about all these issues. We started about a month ago and up to this weekend had no real physical contact.

On Friday I went to see him for the weekend (he lives a few hours away now but still works near me in the week). I said I felt I was in the friend zone. He admitted he was strugglng to see how we'd restart something physical as he felt very awkward. Anyway we shared a bed cuddled and this led to kissing, some heavy petting etc. So far so good. We spoke about how we wanted to go further the next night and perform oral sex on each other...this was something we never did in our relationship as we both believed the other didn't like it (this wasnt true at all)

On Saturday we went out for drinks. I have lost a lot of weight recently and rarely drink now. I got massively pissed which wasnt intentional at all and when we got home basically passed out. Apparently he tried to go down on me but I was dismissive etc (tbh I dont remember). I get that he was hurt and that it was a massive fuck up by me - I've not been that drunk in about 15 years or more. But now he's saying because this has overtones of how I made him feel rejected in the past he cant allow himself to be hurt.

His solution is that we take sex off the table for an indeterminate period. He says we didn't have sex before so why does it matter? But the point is that this is meant as a new start. I dont want to go back to what we had. And it feels if I agree to this we'll never get a normal physical relationship.

Am I being completely unfair?

OP posts:
Original poster
Fat2fit · 21/09/2019 20:11

Ok, I hold my hands up to expressing myself poorly and slightly out of chronological order. The discussion we had about oral sex took place on the evening we were drinking. Even after the kissing of the previous night the plan was still to hold off on going further but a few drinks in we were flirting with each other and enjoying those feelings, and discussed taking it further. That was me suggesting it although he happily agreed...hence my comment about blurring boundaries. I accept in my OP that wasnt clear. I meant we discussed it the next night rather than we planned ahead to the next night. We've been careful to check with each other that we are comfortable as and when anything happens. Hence we both knew after kissing etc on Friday that we were both ok with that.

No one is being affected by us lwt alone a lot of people, I'm not sure what you base that on? And I've been planning to move for a long time, it's very much not a new idea.

OP posts:
Original poster
Fat2fit · 21/09/2019 20:18

If you are referring to the Madonna/ whore issue, I've been quite specific about how he very much isn't a misogynist and the aspect of it that is him is the fact he has previously associated certain acts as nice/ not nice and not felt able to ask or expect his partner who he loved to participate. He has asked others who he didnt love to do so. Its something we've discussed and he freely admits.

I don't think that's offensive. It's a factual statement. A lot of unpleasant things have been said about him on this thread but not by me. What have I said that's nasty?

OP posts:
category12 · 21/09/2019 20:42

But op, the core of the Madonna/whore issue is its misogyny. He may not express misogynistic views elsewhere, but that is inextricably misogynistic.

Original poster
Fat2fit · 21/09/2019 20:50

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

OP posts:
category12 · 21/09/2019 21:11

It's not really an agree to disagree kinda thing - devaluing women according to sexual activity is blatantly, obviously, unmistakably misogynistic. You can close your eyes to it and deny that reality, but it still exists.

He may be lovely and right on in all other aspects, and I'm not arguing that, but the Madonna/whore comes from a deeply fucked up place. A lot of people have internalised misogyny.

mynewbeamer · 21/09/2019 21:29

The chrono order is completely out in your original post, you are saying, OP? I find that surprising because you have put most things quite carefully. I think you are moving goal posts - but I might be wrong.

Yes, you will be affecting other people with this if it is anywhere near as toxic as the impression you have given in this thread, in my opinion.

Things you have said which paint him in a really, really, really bad light are the madonna/whore thing and (just unbelievably bad) him going down on you when you are semi conscious - are either of these things true? If yes you need to listen to the advice to run for the hills. Absolutely nothing you have said excuses these things if they are true. If they are not true - you were saying it because you were upset he was rejecting you - come clean. And given that you said the above things about him it is not surprising that other people are responding and so you saying "it is other people on the thread saying negative things" is a bit off.

You also mentioned his past, him being a survivor of abuse - imo just unforgivable of you on every level, especially in the context of the other things you have said. It is why I just don't believe your feelings about him are genuine. Sorry.

Is he in the same place as you generally - is he fit, healthy, happy etc? Or is he unhappy, confused, isolated, depressed, not looking after himself? These are not intended to be leading questions, I just wondered.

What did you think/do you think my agenda is?

Do you think you are finding it hard to be honest with yourself? (sorry if that sounds patronising)

Conniedescending · 21/09/2019 21:34

Of course it's misogynistic

He's told you there's sex acts he hasn't asked u for because he loves you ( so you are Madonna) and too good/nice for that

But he has with other women who he doesn't love/respect (the whores) so sees those women ac 'ok' to perform what he thinks are degrading acts for women on them

However you look at this it's fucked up

Plus you then said u want to do those acts so he tried it on when u were so drunk you don't remember this (dodgy) and is now cooling off because you said no.

That's also fucked up

mynewbeamer · 21/09/2019 21:37

he has previously associated certain acts as nice/ not nice and not felt able to ask or expect his partner who he loved to participate. He has asked others who he didnt love to do so

I am sorry but that second sentence is just grim. Please tell me that isn't true?

mynewbeamer · 21/09/2019 21:37

Cross posted with pp!

mynewbeamer · 21/09/2019 21:45

And I am really sorry if this sounds blunt, but if those things you said about him are not true, or if they have been distorted out of all recognisable truth, he will eventually see the wood for the trees about you and he will find the strength to leave.

If they are true - hills >>>>>>>>>>>>

Original poster
Fat2fit · 21/09/2019 21:58

I'm not lying or shifting goalposts. I'm not in a court of law and my posts are not evidence.

I originally posted at a time when I was exhausted, feeling unwell and confused. My thinking is now much clearer and we have also discussed this at length.

Its a pretty common view that nice girls/ women do X or dont do Y. From women as much as men. I know people of both sexes who think one night stands are not what nice people do. I know plenty of women who won't give oral sex or do various other things because to them its unpleasant or not what a nice woman would do.

I don't disparage them for thpze views. I dont agree. It's attitudes like that which he was on the receiving end of and which made him think that he couldn't ask a woman he loved for what he wanted. In a casual relationship where there was no love he felt able to ask - for the first time. We have spoken extensively and having told him some of my (fairly extensive) sexual history he is starting to lose that idea and accept I can and do want similar things. He is incredibly respectful to all women in his life.

OP posts:
Conniedescending · 21/09/2019 22:09

Not very respectful to withdraw from you because you refused a sex act with him?

But whatever ....you won't accept this sounds like an unhealthy relationship so my best advice would be couples therapy to sort it out

Original poster
Fat2fit · 21/09/2019 22:10

I notice you've not explained how or who I am affecting by working towards a relationship with this man. Just throwing around the overused and meaningless word toxic.

I am happy. He is happy, and really enjoying his life in a way I haven't seen him do for several years, which I am really pleased about.

OP posts:
oabiti · 21/09/2019 22:11

I'm sorry, I don't buy it.

oabiti · 21/09/2019 22:16

OP, what was the point in this post? Because you have been given opinions that you perhaps find like; you've gone from: I'm really confused, to we are both happy 🤔

How long was he single before getting back with you again(apols if you previously answered)? How long was he with his ex?

oabiti · 21/09/2019 22:17

find=don't

Original poster
Fat2fit · 21/09/2019 22:26

Don't buy what exactly?

I posted the thread when I was confused a week ago. Time moves on, we've spoken a lot since then and we're both a lot clearer on everything now, I dont feel bad for what happened with me getting passing out drunk and he's made it very clear that despite some initial disappointment on the night he's far happier to wait for a time when we're both sober and able to fully enjoy it.

He was casually seeing another woman for a few weeks after we split up, it wasn't a relationship as such. I don't know precisely when it ended, it wasn't important to me so I didn't ask.

OP posts:
oabiti · 21/09/2019 22:47

So, everything is fine and dandy now? Great. Good luck, op.

NigesFakeWalkingStick · 21/09/2019 23:53

This would be way, way too much of a headfuck for me to even consider perusing. Having to put arbitrary limits on sex, not communicating about oral sex for SIX years, wondering whether you've rejected him/he's rejected you. Nah, I just couldn't get on board with that.

Something clearly made you post originally, and whilst you've said those issues are better now and that's great, I suspect other issues will arise given time. I'm all for giving things second chances should the opportunity seem right, but the fact you've already gotten into a state of questioning something that should be relaxed and easy this early on shouts red flags on both parts tonme.

Butterymuffin · 21/09/2019 23:59

he's far happier to wait for a time when we're both sober and able to fully enjoy it

That's a bit different to 'he's taken sex off the table unilaterally because he felt rejected'. But you're saying he's moved from that to this because you've talked it all through now?

I would not expect someone with a Madonna / whore complex to get over it because the woman tells him she likes it really. Surely that just moves you from one category to another? It will take counselling to properly get to the root of this.

Original poster
Fat2fit · 22/09/2019 00:04

A new relationship is all fun and relaxed and whatever. But this isn't a relationship again yet and it isn't new either, we are bringing 6 years of good and bad history. It can't be an entirely simple situation.

I was confused at the time. I don't discuss these issues in real life other than with him hence my post. However we have since spoken, I'm clearer on it all whether or not anyone believes me.

OP posts:
chickenyhead · 22/09/2019 00:16

I think I am nasty, as I have never discussed giving oral sex, I just do it Blush

I thought that it was pretty much a given nowadays, but I have now learnt that, no, I am a dirty bird.

You live and learn.

mollycoddle77 · 22/09/2019 10:19

@NigesFakeWalkingStick it's hardly 'this early on' though, is it, they have been together for six years before splitting up!

OP I am truly sorry you have got all these completely unhelpful responses from people, I thought for a minute you had posted in AIBU due to nature of judgy, snarky comments, but no! You've posted in Relationships and this is what you got. Disappointing.

I don't have anything very helpful to say myself, but I and my DH also find sex difficult due to painful pasts. We have tried therapy but it wasn't that great. We have both been in individual therapy since which has been massively helpful and I think we may soon try couple therapy again to start addressing our difficulties with sex and intimacy again.

I would not be put off by things being difficult, you are doing fine, just keep talking and perhaps find a good counsellor (I can't recommend the Relate sex therapy model though for issues that go a bit deeper).

Good luck with it all, and again, I'm sorry you've had to defend yourself on this thread instead of getting the emotional support you need.

NigesFakeWalkingStick · 22/09/2019 10:23

@mollycoddle77 I meant this early on in the reunited phase, I thought that much would be clear Hmm

Either way OP, I'm glad posting helped and that things are less clouded now.

mollycoddle77 · 22/09/2019 10:36

@NigesFakeWalkingStick ok but you don't start again after six years as if you don't know each other? You don't just reset and feel like you've only just met. I don't think it is strange that the problems are still there and I don't think it should mean they shouldn't be together. It sounds like these are deep rooted issues they both have individually and they are willing to work through them together. To me that is the sign of a very good relationship.