So confused as to where this is going

[Fat2fit]

I was in a relationship for a number of years. We always got on really well on a general level we have a lot of shared interests, humour and values, enjoy each other's company. But we always had lots of hang ups around sex...we both hid lots of parts of ourselves to be the perfect vanilla partner. We also or mainly me did a really poor job of communicating at all. Our sex life dwindled to nothing, with there being many occasions where he felt rejected and unwanted and eventually he ended things.

Fast forward a few months and he got back in contact. He was seeing someone else but felt she was second best to me etc. So we agreed to try again. We said we'd take it very slowly, go on dates and talk properly about all these issues. We started about a month ago and up to this weekend had no real physical contact.

On Friday I went to see him for the weekend (he lives a few hours away now but still works near me in the week). I said I felt I was in the friend zone. He admitted he was strugglng to see how we'd restart something physical as he felt very awkward. Anyway we shared a bed cuddled and this led to kissing, some heavy petting etc. So far so good. We spoke about how we wanted to go further the next night and perform oral sex on each other...this was something we never did in our relationship as we both believed the other didn't like it (this wasnt true at all)

On Saturday we went out for drinks. I have lost a lot of weight recently and rarely drink now. I got massively pissed which wasnt intentional at all and when we got home basically passed out. Apparently he tried to go down on me but I was dismissive etc (tbh I dont remember). I get that he was hurt and that it was a massive fuck up by me - I've not been that drunk in about 15 years or more. But now he's saying because this has overtones of how I made him feel rejected in the past he cant allow himself to be hurt.

His solution is that we take sex off the table for an indeterminate period. He says we didn't have sex before so why does it matter? But the point is that this is meant as a new start. I dont want to go back to what we had. And it feels if I agree to this we'll never get a normal physical relationship.

Am I being completely unfair?

Any relationship that requires this much work is really unlikely to be good for either party.

It's not meant to be this hard, op. It really isnt.

It sounds like you won't be told though so good luck to you.

Signed,
A person who divorced a man who was constant hard work, and is now with someone with whom its v v easy at all times, despite step children, difficulties etc...

I wondered if @Fizzysours had read all the posts carefully.

@Fat2fit I highlighted how you had changed your story mid thread in my last post - could you just explain that, or did I get that wrong? How you firstly said that you had planned oral sex for the Saturday night, and then you said that on the Saturday boundaries were blurred by alcohol you went further than planned - ie the oral sex - and that was why he pulled back.

The other thing I found surprising was that you said such appallingly negative things about a man you said you loved - the man I love is far from perfect but I cannot ever imagine saying the sort of things about him as you have done online, whether true or not. What do you think?

And finally, you said that you had presented a version of yourself which you thought the man wanted to see for six years. If that is the case there are literally no foundations there because you were manipulating the man all those years, surely? What do you think?

In terms of the difficulties you have had in the last six years, I am sorry to hear that.

PS just for clarity, re hiding parts of yourself you wrote "we both hid lots of parts of ourselves to be the perfect vanilla partner"

Not everyone has a happy, easy life I also meant to say - you cannot assume others have easier lives than you - you just don't know. IME most people have significant challenges, either current or lingering from their past, even though they may be different from your challenges, and even though they may not talk about it.

Mynewbeamer I wonder if you are as patronising in real life as you appear to be on here? Your dissection of my posts is frankly embarrassing. I've not bothered to AS you but maybe this is your 'style'. So be it.

It's disappointing that you quote me and then utterly misquote that quote to fit your agenda. We BOTH presented sanitised vanilla versions of ourselves in relation to sex because we both felt the other was special, and neither of us wanted to ruin that. It's not manipulation and even if it were we both did it, and we both can see now how unhelpful it was even though pur motives were good. It is something we are unpicking now and finally talking openly about sex and affection and all related matters which we never did previously.

It is something we are unpicking now and finally talking openly about sex and affection and all related matters which we never did previously.

It's not meant to be this difficult OP!! Can you not see that?!

I still don't understand why you can't have sex...
You sound more invested in this unofficial relationship

We are re establishing a relationship from scratch. We dont plan to have full sex for a while as to rush that would complicate matters as kind of happened last weekend.

I dont view this as difficult or hard. Don't you ever discuss problems pr issues?! What was difficult was in our past relationship the fact we both struggled to articulate any concerns meaning those important conversations never happened. But we have now started having them and that will continue.

I dont view this as difficult or hard. Don't you ever discuss problems pr issues?!

There arent meant to be any issues to discuss when you are establishing a new relationship... I'm really sorry you have somehow learned this is normal or expected.

You're not supposed to be discussing affection and sex. It's supposed to be a no brainers that just happens and makes you both feel good.

If this level of runaround and drama doesn't feel like hard work to you, then I feel sympathy because it's supposed to be fun, free, thrilling and relaxing to get to know someone...

Having to analyze his behaviour towards you in light of his (extremely misogynist) Madonna/whore complex...? Does that sound lovely and fresh and relaxing?

No, it sounds like you're his psychiatric nurse.

I mean look at the title of this thread! That alone is red flag bunting. If you're "so confused about where this is going" during the early days of "reestablishing the relationship" then I'm really sorry OP but this will end in tears.

Again it seems you won't be told though.

I'm really confused where it's "obvious" that the man in this adores op.

@mynewbeamer yes I did read the posts. People differ in their opinions due to their different life experiences. Bit patronising babes. I think there is a lot of hope here. I am entitled to share that view.

Patronising, condescending men

Posters have some valid points which aren't erased by calling them "babes"

Meh

I was confused because it didn't make sense to me. The reason was that I'd not understood what he meant/ he'd explained it poorly. I've not had a hangover for about 10 years so forgot how much it would affect me/ us.

The discussion point...maybe im not explaining myself. When you're intimate with someone you discuss what you like and dislike, talk about things you'd like to try, or have done with a previous partner. Talk about what doesn't work for you or anything you feel uncomfortable with, or anything that's worrying you or stopping you enjoying physical intimacy as much as you would want to. We never did that, any of it. Never talked about our past sexual history (relationship history yes, sex no). And that's what we're learning to do now. So yes it may seem a bit theoretical or whatever but the point is that we cant just start having sex and hope the conversations will follow we need to get used to having these conversations first so that we are comfortable talking about stuff in future, not just crossing our fingers. I've never been one to rush into having sex with someone I am in a relationship with, first time around we were together for about 6 weeks. And this is different because we've really only just started kissing again. Up to last weekend we hadnt felt ready to do even that. Because whilst we are starting again we do still have 6 years together behind us.

I do love him fwiw and I honestly believe he loves me. Yes we have had some pretty serious difficulties but we believe they can be overcome, and that our lives are better in every way when we're together than apart.

Sounds like a good thing then, but just keep your eyes open and don't get unwittingly carried in to something that just isnt you again. Both have to be brave enough to speak up and be honest and both have to be able to say no.

I do however feel that his response was somewhat concerning and potentially coercive. It creates discomfort and puts you on the back foot to imply that YOU were at fault, when you simply weren't in the mood at that time.

Personally, with my experiences, I would run a mile.

Christ almighty...it really shouldn’t be this hard.

I'm sure for people who dont have the past traumas we have, who are accustomed to saying whatever and feeling their views are listened to, it isn't 'difficult' or however you want to unpleasantly label it.

Fact is though many people don't have those discussions easily or at all. Ive seem many posts on here by women and indeed men saying they cant or dont know how to talk to their partner about intimate issues. So it doesnt all just happen for everyone. People arent telepathic. And if talking about stuff doesn't come naturally you work at it. No different to working at my health and fitness as a result of which I now have a normal BMI for the first time in 20 years.

Christ on a bike .....this sounds agonising. If you fancy each other and are both consenting adults then have sex, have a laugh, show each other what you like, and the intimacy and trust will grow. If you are sexually compatible then this will be easy - if you are not then, well, just accept it and move on.

Having a pre sex discussion to agree right we will do oral next time sounds deeply unsexy and what you describe sounds like ultimately you aren't really compatible sexually. ....if in 6 years it didn't work then why would it now? You're forcing things.

The whole Madonna whore thing would certainly give me the ick factor instant turn off

You're obviously not reading my posts...jesus I miss the old days on MM when people actually read what was written and didn't push their own agendas.

It didn't work out for us because we couldn't have those conversations and discussions that others do. Like I said not everyone does. Some people go on and repeat those non-discussions in other relationships, ultimately with the same outcome. We are trying to learn from this and start afresh. We're not ready for full sex yet, just as I wouldn't be with soneone new a few weeks in. When we do start having sex we'll continue to talk about likes and dislikes, what works and what doesn't but by then we'll be more at ease with those conversations.

I have to be honest and this will sound harsh, but you came on here for opinions, didn't you?

I'm finding him a little too manipulative, to be honest. I think he's enjoying you dancing to his tune. If he is able to have sex with other women? Surely the issue isn't you, but what he thinks of you. And if you think it's one of these: "I love this woman so much that I can't perform", you are sadly mistaken. He is leading you a merry dance and enjoying every minute of it.

You may love each other, but you are not meant for each other.

How soon did you get back with him after his last relationship ended?

He may be attracted to you, but I I don't believe he wants sex with you.

You're obviously not reading my posts...jesus I miss the old days on MM when people actually read what was written and didn't push their own agendas.

It sounds like you are getting defensive because the truth is hurting.

It's not the truth is it though? If what I'm saying is being misinterpreted or misunderstood?

Where did I say he couldn't perform? That's not the case and really not what this is about.

I seem to have given the impression he refused or was incapable of sex with me and then merrily went off and banged others. That's not what happened. He never couldn't manage sex; there were some times he wasn't up for it just like sometimes I wasn't. There were also some things we both wanted to do but didn't feel able to suggest out of respect for the other person.

He's not manipulative. But then according to a PP I'm the manipulative one. Who knows maybe we both are.

We're also not together in the sense of calling it a relationship. We're not seeing other people but given we are barely kissing we dont consider we are back together in the proper sense yet.

I think it is extraordinary that you won't answer - the two quotes were in total conflict - your own words were in conflict, whatever my agenda is they were your words - you were lying mid thread. Are you lying about him and the convos you are having?

You could say that you two are both consenting adults and so you can do what you want - but it honestly sounds really toxic and there will be a lot of other people in your lives being affected by it all, and the fallout. I am guessing that is why you are thinking of moving away,new start? It really shouldn't be this hard.

I was in a relationship with a narcissist, and it took me about 6 or years to be completely sure. It was horrific. It was so subtle, the things which were causing damage could have been coincidences or me being over sensitive. And he was always there to pick up the pieces - saying awful things about me and then saying he was the one who loved me. I am not saying that this applies here for sure as I am not sure. I am not that patronising.

And... jeez ... HOW can you say such feckin awful things about the man you apparently love?! Get him to read this! See how he feels then!

OP, that's just my personal opinion. You can argue with it. But it's how I see the situation, given what you've told us