'Emotional rape'

[Eckhart]

I was emotionally abused a few years ago, and ended up quite a wreck. It took me a long time to get my head around what had happened, and the way I'd been treated, and, after a while, I allowed myself to call it 'emotional rape', as I felt fully emotionally violated.

When I told my recent partner what had happened, she told me she didn't want me to call it 'rape', as she had been physically raped in the past, and the word was not appropriate to describe any other circumstance.

I repeated to her that I'd said 'emotional rape', and that I was not under the impression that the two were the same, but she insisted that I was not to use that word in front of her. She told me it was correctly referred to as 'emotional abuse'.

Am I not supposed to decide for myself how to define what happened to me? Or is she reasonable in claiming the word to describe purely physical rape?

Can I ask if you're a man or a woman? Sorry if I've missed it.

@WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles Does it make a difference? And if so, how? There's been a lot of assumptions on this thread. Including the assumption that I'm female, and subsequent referring to the person I labelled as 'my partner' as my 'friend'.

My partner was using 'rape' to describe being raped by another woman. This also doesn't fit the dictionary definition, but the thread moved so fast last night, I was too busy trying to deny minimising the whole world's rape experience to think properly!

Also, those who suggested I was 'minimising' or 'diminishing' the exprerience of rape - is that because they thought I was using it to describe something more minimal? And if so, how do they know?

@MaggietheHorseThief I didn't get annoyed with her; I told her that I wouldn't say it again. Thereby the moment passed, and I didn't feel I wanted to open the discussion again, hence asking Mumsnet.

I really don't feel sure about all this talk of 'triggering', either. It really did just seem she was pissed off with me, in a more political sort of way, for misusing the word. None of us know if she was triggered or not, but it felt to me like she was just telling me what language I could and couldn't use. Clearly she was right about the wrong use of the word, but I still am not happy with the timing.

I never questioned her use of the word, although it seems she was using it wrongly too. I never questioned it, because for me, when she told me about it, I was interested in hearing about her experience, in her terms. There's no way I could have stopped her (even though she wasn't upset) in the middle of explaining to me what happened, and say 'That's not precisely what rape actually is though, is it?' I'm just not like that. I guess she is, and that's the issue.

It’s not helpful to use emotive words like this out with the situations they actually apply to “Rape is when a person intentionally penetrates another's vagina, anus or mouth with a penis, without the other person's consent. Assault by penetration is when a person penetrates another person's vagina or anus with any part of the body other than a penis, or by using an object, without the person's consent.” (Legal definition) .

It’s not a competition and clearly people can be significantly damaged by many forms of violence. Rape however is particularly difficult to deal with I think because of misogynistic attitudes to women and homophobic attitudes to men .

On a different but related theme - I find the word / term “rapey” / “a bit rapey” very offensive yet see it bandied about on MN quite often. It totally minimises rape.

I agree @KOKOtiltomorrow, so, now, having been corrected by Mumsnet, and realised that I was being told how to use a very emotive word by somebody who was themself using it wrongly, I'm a bit nonplussed.

I think 'It's not a competition, however, rape is worse' makes it into a competition again. I've seen this a lot on this thread. People minimising emotional abuse because they think it was harder for my partner and I'm competing. As pps have said, for some people, rape is worse, and for others, emotional abuse is worse. Each situation is different and there are no rules for who finds what hardest.

I also find 'rapey' offensive. I won't be misusing the word 'rape' anymore. I'm actually a bit flabberghasted that I didn't know the detailed meaning of it. I'm not an uneducated person. I can't be the only one. I've even been around people who have been raped in their past - I guess it would never cross my mind to say 'You've been raped? What does that actually mean, though?'

Like 2012 when teenagers were 'Facebook raping' eachother.. it will slowly be just another word, it wont be taken seriously.. and rape obviously isn't to be taken lightly.

"Rape" and "emotional rape" makes me think of CISwomen, and Transwomen.
By calling women "CIS", you've broadened the definition of female so TW are just "another type of women". And women, as we have seen recently, have become just a subset of their own sex class by the word woman being expanded to include anyone who says/thinks they are one.

"Rape" and "Emotional rape" does the same. It is the equivalent of saying "I was raped too, but in a different way". When you can't be raped a different way to what it means. Words and their definitions are important.

I am very sorry for the emotional trauma your XP put you though OP and also glad you have reconsidered using the word rape to describe it.

Perhaps it's best not to speculate on which is worse or whether it might be as bad for some people and not for others. If you haven't experienced it, you've really no idea and it's not the pain olympics. This type of abuse is bad, the other type of abuse is also bad, and call them by their right names.

Okay your reply to me is extremely disingenuous, indeed this whole thread and all your other replies to posters generally seems very disingenuous. Honestly it makes me feel very uncomfortable and very unsure of your motives here.

I won't engage with you any more.

You seem very keen to hear of peoples' experiences of rape and discuss it (I note re your girlfriend you say "I was interested in hearing about her experience" which is very bizarre wording under the circumstances you describe) I sure as shit won't be sharing anything with you and I think/hope other people may be coming to the same conclusion.

Tbf, it doesn't sound like your partner was raped either if it was an assault by a woman.

Rape, in UK law, requires a penis. It's quite specific!

@WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles I've never once asked anybody for their experience of rape. I was interested in my partner's experience because she chose to tell me. In my opinion, it would have been hideous of me to say to her 'I'm not interested'. I didn't describe the circumstances of that discussion.

My motives have been to clarify the facts from an emotional situation, particularly regarding the terminology, specifically the correct usage of the word 'rape'. I have recognised my error.

I'm sorry the thread makes you uncomfortable. If other people feel the same way, I hope they will speak for themselves.

Rape is rape. It's not about one upping another's experience which is what you're trying to gauge others are alluding to. It's to do with the word meaning something very specific.

I have to say that reading your updates, I do feel you're being disingenuous now and it's made me question the whole thread. I feel tricked, almost.

@Sagradafamiliar Disingenuous how? Please enlighten me. I have no idea what trick you think I might be playing.

I feel a bit tricked by realising I've been corrected on my use of the word rape by somebody who was using the word rape incorrectly.

I think you feel so strongly that feels like rape. Sometimes things are so traumatic we don't find the right word we just know the feeling.
It sounds like severe trauma and I would recommend you to see your GP for therapy.
I am a therapeutic counsellor and I can see this is something you should get some support. I'm sure you are trying to describe how you feel. The debate should be about your mh not your use of the word rape.

Yes, @category12. Exactly that. You can't minimise something by naming it wrongly unless one thing is less than the other.

But you can still be naming it wrongly and it can still be hurtful.

I think that you're more than entitled to use that word. Rape doesn't just mean sexual, it can mean to plunder, violate or 'strip something of resources'. You can indeed be emotionally violated and stripped of emotional resources.

I have experienced both physical rape and all kinds of emotional abuse and have zero problem with you using that word.

Nobody has a monopoly on a word that has different meanings. If you'd rather not trigger your friend by using it then don't, but you're not doing anything wrong.

I feel like when it comes to suffering there's a bit of a competition going on. Your experience is as valid as hers and in many ways emotional abuse is far worse than physical in my opinion.

You cannot appropriate the word rape and use it however you deem to.

I have been emotionally abused and I have been physically raped by the same man.

The two are not comparable to any extent. Someone fucking with your mind is difficult indeed and violates your sense of self. But you retain part of yourself that questions the abuse. You feel mad, but you aren't mad.

When you are physically raped, it shows you that you are nothing, you are unable to control who touches/enters your own body. Any mental tendrils that existed to disconnect you from the abuse are severed. You are not ever the same again and you dont feel safe ever again once you know that devastation. You cant undo that vulnerability, no matter how mentally strong you become.

There is a reason why the 2 crimes for which there is no statute of limitations in this country (UK) are rape and murder.

I hope that you will never experience either.

You seem to have deliberately misunderstood me. I think I fall into the camp that think you are being disingenuous.

@Crybabyghoul yes, I have thought about the rape of cities and suchlike. The word doesn't just have the one meaning. I'm interested to see what other posters think of your comment.

@category12 I was agreeing with you! We can't compare pain, abuse hurts, and we should get the names for things right.

Could you tell me what I've said that's disingenuous?

@Eckhart the fact of the matter is the word has more than one meaning. And the meaning fits entirely with your experience. Nobody is allowed to tell you it doesn't just because they find it offensive.

Eckhart, I haven't found you disingenuous on this thread- at times it moved so fast, and we're talking about very emotive things, and different posters picked up on different usages of words.

I hate the word rape. I hate passing a field of rape, rapeseed oil, hearing the word rape in any context sort of shuts me down. I have to be very cold and focused to keep functioning.

I don't think arguing about who is allowed to use the word really addresses the issue. You were distressed and wanted to talk to her, but weren't able to. She may have wanted to support you, but been unable to because of a phrase you used. Or she may have been uninterested and preferred to pick your words apart.

The only way you'll know is to try and talk to her again. 'You know I was really upset yesterday? Well I wanted to tell you something'.

See what happens.

@Crybabyghoul You are the only person on the thread who has noticed that 'rape' has more than one meaning.

@picklemepopcorn Thank you for mentioning that you haven't found me disingenuous. Nobody has told me yet why they think that, although a few were quick to say it.

"My motives have been to clarify the facts from an emotional situation, particularly regarding the terminology, specifically the correct usage of the word 'rape'. I have recognised my error."

No, this isn't your motive or you would have just shut up after you "recognised your error" You're not here at all to "clarify facts".

If you want some proper clarity, this is what you are doing.

OP: "I told a woman who had been raped I had been "emotionally raped" do people find this offensive?"

MN : pretty much yes

OP: "But but but but but. Come and tell me all about it so I understand "

MN yep, still, YABU and it's offensive

OP: Okay well I didn't actually know what the word rape actually meant, now I know it has a proper meaning. Who would have thought it! What's that? Well errrr yes now you've asked yes I may be a man but I may not. Doesn't matter, come talk to me again about what you think rape actually means and let me argue with you. Oh okay then, this woman actually wasn't raped either according to how MN define it. So obviously you're all wrong anyway.

"I'm not being disingenuous, what do you mean?"

Really?! Can people not see this for what it is?!

"I feel a bit tricked by realising I've been corrected on my use of the word rape by somebody who was using the word rape incorrectly"

Oh, I can feel your smugness from here. Silly women, you're all wrong anyway.

Fuck off.