But we took you to Stately Homes" August 2019 onwards thread

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's August 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
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December 2013
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May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018 - May 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I think they will be enraged when they read that, because you have totally out ranked them or out-adulted them, it's so calm and measured and sensible, everything that they are not!
I wonder if they will respond? Maybe with something mocking/sneering and 'ooOOhhh, who do you think you are'
Yes i know i need to stay calm and keep that upper hand 😊

I just got off a 8 min phone call with my mother. My father was shouting in the background for most of the entire thing. With a lot of swearing at my mother. He was called by the tax office and needs to pay around £1000 back.My mother wants me to pay it for her ( using her money ) when they send him written confirmation of the amount- but what just got me is how bloody scary his stupid rants would have been to a child to witness. I wasn't even there but I did feel huge waves of anxiety talking to her.

My therapist told me "every time you go back you have a breakdown". This year I've decided not to go to the house for Christmas and just do my own thing. I live alone so not sure exactly what the plan will be.

This year I've decided not to go to the house for Christmas and just do my own thing. I live alone so not sure exactly what the plan will be.

However you decide to spend Christmas, Orangecake, it will be a whole lot calmer and more peaceful than what they have to offer.

In previous years, DH and I used to fib and say we were working on Christmas Day (it was a 24/7/365 working environment, so entirely feasible) just so we could retreat to our safe haven. How ridiculous is that, when you think about it? I wish now I'd had the courage to just say, "Sorry, we've already made plans".

I left home at 18, my first Christmas I pretended that I was working because I didn't want to spend it with my parents I spent the whole day alone, it was lovely.
I still do quite often spend the day alone by choice.
I started thinking about writing a letter of explanation to my parent I wrote a few lines but then I just thought 'nah, they dont deserve it, they never explained themselves to me, would never be accountable just pressed ahead with their own agenda regardless'
An explanation feels like letting them into my life and I just don't trust the bastard.
This might change as I get further into therapy but right now it just feels like a kindness I'm not prepared to give🤷‍♀️

Interesting that this popped up today.

I have always been the "black sheep" in my family. It has only been since i have had my own children i see how its not normal & now as an adult i look back at things said ( while i was an adult ) and cant believe how awful some of it was. Im actually embarrassed i believed some of the things she came out with

As a child i had 2 febral seizures ( roughly a year apart ) both times i was with my dad & sister ( mum and dad were seperated ) both times i went to hospital in an ambulance. The 2nd seizure i had my dad took me home once id been discharged from hospital, spoke to my mum and left. As soon as he left my mum went mad. Said i was making it up to get attention off my dad and it had never happened infrront of her so i was attention seeking. I was about 10 at the time and remember crying my eyes out asking her to ask the doctors and my sister if she didnt believe me

As an adult i asked her why shed done that when she had been to the hospital with me about it ( was on holiday in wales when the 2nd seizure happened so had a follow up appointment at local hospital when i got home ) and as an adult she told me it was because my dad had said id stopped breathing..... doesnt even make sense does it? If she thought my dad was lying why didnt she speak to my dad instead of berating her child? She never liked my friends growing up, i was always a "fat little bitch" always a liar, always attention seeking

As an adult i was in a DV relationship from 18 to 25. I had a child with this man and the violence didnt stop. My mum told me if i rang the police SS would come and take my child. She told my sisters SS would one day take my child and she would not stop my child going into care and was surprised when my 1 of my sister said she would not let my chikd go into care and would look after them. The fact this conversation even happened infuriates me now because SS had never been involved at that point so there was no need for such a dramartic conversation

SS got involved when i finally left him and they were nothing but supportive.

After leaving ex i moved and had no contact with anyone. I met a new partner and was moving on with my life and my mum got my sister to email my new partner ( hadnt spoken to mum or sister for over a year at this point ) telling him i was crazy, i abused my children, i let my ex hit me and my children all the time, social services were about to get involved, i was trouble always had been then finished it off saying i deserved a nice guy and deserved to be happy and she hoped i was well. It was horrible

I have just started counselling and hope i can start to make sense of it all. The longer time goes on the angrier i get about it all

Hi @ZimmaZummaZoop the mind boggles trying to work out what the hell they are playing at half the time eh? Are you in a happy relationship now? I hope so x
@Ulterego well I sent the message this morning, and I got a phone call that I didnt answer so there was a voicemail left by my mother saying that they don't deserve this, that history is repeating itself, it is just like the 'carry on when D was a baby' (oh, the tome when I was in a mother and baby unit with a nervous breakdown and you didn't come back from your holiday then made it all about how hard done by you were, that 'carry on'), she said tha I have done what I said I would never do and stopped them from seeing the kids, that they deserve to see the kids and finally (in attempt at threatening tone .., 'we will be in all day if you are 'big enough' to come down. What the actual fuck?!
Oh and I got a reply on my message too saying 'shame on you'.
Anyways, I sent the following response

I got your voicemail; let’s address a few things. To be clear, I never said you couldn’t see K and D. I was willing to come down with them on the Monday; you decided to stay at the caravan. I messaged you to tell you they were not coming to you after school anymore, I at no point said ‘you can never see them again’. We could have discussed this, but you chose to not respond to the message, not contact me for the following 4 weeks and then unfriend me on Facebook. So not shame on me - shame on you. If you want a relationship with the kids I will facilitate that, if that is what they want. We can come to an agreement that suits everyone. I won’t be coming down so no need to stay in on my account. And let’s communicate by this means as it keeps things nice and clear.

Marmaduke I feel like you've fallen for a hoover here, you said no more, we are done, but it feels like you've got back into the ring and are wresting with the pigs?
Dont mean to be critical and sorry if I've misread things?
the thing do you want them to have a relationship with your children?

Zimma, Your mother is off the charts batshit evil:( reading your post I want to say just back away slowly and dont make any sudden moves, she doesnt sound clever enough to be too much of a threat but I think put as much distance between you and her as possible.
I'm sorry you were dealt such a shit hand when it came to parents:(
Im actually embarrassed i believed some of the things she came out with
I can relate to this, for me it's not so much the things that were said and done more that I meekly accepted it, I so wish I'd stood up to them when I was younger, I hate the fact that they made a fool of me.

@Ulterego I see what you are saying but I did feel good putting the blame back on their doorstep. Mmm the kids, I just don't know. I want what the kids want (the kids aren't 100% if they want a relationship so I need to leave the door ajar in terms of that. If they do then there will be strict boundaries in place for where and when they see them and what is and isn't acceptable behaviour. It's tricky but I personally am done and I won't be drawn on that one x

As long as you feel happy and in control it's all good Marmaduke :o
Your children will probably naturally distance themselves as they get older and can increasingly see through them?

Yeah @Ulterego the kids can make their own minds up for sure. But maybe I won't hear from my mother again (wishful thinking😂) and it will be a 'moot point' - cos they haven't been so arsed about seeing them in the last two months have they whilst they've been playing their weirdo power play mind games. X

Hi MarmadukeM

Yes ive been NC with them for 3 years and been in a healthy relationship for coming up to 2 years now. My sister was also NC for the 3 years but my mum has recently been back in touch with her and its brought up a lot of memories and feelings

Ulterego I know what you mean about being made a fool of. I have apologised to members of my family because i feel so foolish for beleiving her lies. She told me as a child that my dad loved my cousins more than me because they were boys, she said thats why he always spent time with them and why he always had them the weekends he had us

As an adult i can see that my auntie was a single mum on benefits with 5 children and my dad wanted to help his family and his family to have a bond.

I remeber once my dad didnt come and pick us up because he had toothache and my mum got me to ring him up and pretend id missed a birthday party because of him. I cringe remembering this conversation 🙈

I know everything she did wasnt personal but it really does feel it somtimes.

I remember once my dad didnt come and pick us up because he had toothache and my mum got me to ring him up and pretend id missed a birthday party because of him
so wrong on so many levels, what a horrible manipulative mind fucking thing to do to a child:(

@ZimmaZummaZoop that made me feel very sad for the child you were. What a twisted bitch she must be. X

Zimma your mum’s behaviour won’t ever make any rational sense, concentrate on you now. It sounds like she’s treated you appallingly. I’d say I can’t imagine how it was when you were a child but I can, lots of people here can. It’s so sad to think that you were so ill and were accused of doing it on purpose for attention. It’s actually quite obscene that a child needing attention would be punished in any case.
What a horror.

I'm sorry to intrude . I feel so awful. My sister has been saying Terrible things to my Mum . I look after Mum 5 days a week and she does 2 . Mum has a nanny cam. I have heard what my sister has been saying and l can't believe it. My Dad died in March after being really ill for months. My sister takes over everything. She rides roughshod over everyone and talks about everyone. I didn't realise she was the same about me. I didn't realise she talked about me like it too. Off the top of my head the latest has been. I didn't grieve the death of my father, my mil or my very dearest friend. My dearest friends funeral l arranged to her exact specification and it was lovely just as she would have wanted . My sister said that her and Mum had to tell me it was lovely to appease me, and that it was an awful funeral, l miss her so much . I am crying now. I put flowers on her grave every week because it is my time to remember her and l talk to her when l go there. My sister told my mother l was smug and self satisfied at my MIL funeral . I am neither. I am heartbroken hearing this filth from he mouth and feel betrayad by my Mum because she sits there and doesn't defend me. I say to others who know us about this and they don't want to know. I can't believe that others don't see how awful the things she said are. This is just the latest in a lifetime of abuse. I don't know what to do anymore. I have shouted at her about this and she said to Mum that because l didn't get involved for Dads funeral arrangements she thought that was why l didn't grieve. How can she say that when l arranged everything for Kathy's. It doesn't make sense. I didn't agree with the service they arranged for Dad . I knew l would be crowed down on anything l suggested so l said. My exact words. 'Dad wouldn't have wanted a fuss but if you get comfort from arranging it then do what you want ' . I felt bitter because l knew l had to keep out of it because l would be down trodden. I don't know why l am posting this here except l am heartbroken over my sister. I don't think she even loves me and l worshipped her.

It's all l can think about , it's on my mind 24/7 . My family are so kind to me but they can only put up with so much of my heartbreak. Thank you all for listening to me.

I had an EMDR session yesterday with my counsellor. That was my third. It's quite 'minority report' stuff, I could really see and hear the memory. This time we focussed on the time my mum slapped me across the face in cold blood, without explanation (but I think it was to do with a minor transgression). She told me to stand there and take of my glasses. I thought she was about to inspect my face, not hit me. Absolutely heartbreaking to feel the sheer shame, sadness, isolation and confusion of my 9 year old self. I watched myself sit down to practice the piano afterwards to try to please her. She didn't come back, didn't comfort, didn't explain, and never apologised. She denies it ever happened of course.

As upsetting as the session was, it was so freeing. I'm feeling much more content. Just, if anyone is thinking of EMDR, please give it a go. My counsellor is so supportive and we do plenty of talking, taking it slow, so it's not all 'facing the trauma'.

mrsmad sorry your sister is so awful. You need to come to terms with who she is and grieve the sister you worshipped for so long. You can't change her. You need to disengage and stop caring about what she thinks and says. So what if the funeral was rubbish? Well done you for organising it. Does your mum agree with this view? Is your mum involved, is she stirring the pot?

jamdhanihash I’ve heard good things about EMDR, I’m really glad it’s working for you. It must be strange to be deliberately examining traumatic things when we all try to squash them away. Quite upsetting thinking about yourself trying to appease someone who’s just assaulted you.

Mrsmadevans your sister sounds outrageous, they know you have nanny cam yet talk like that, knowing you’ll hear?
It sounds like your mum depends on you both to care for her, so probably isn’t going to say anything to jeopardise that, although that has gone wrong now.
It’s an incredibly onerous thing caring for an elderly relative, you’ve also lost your father and your friend. It’s a huge burden.

I’d recommend disengaging from your sister as far as possible, keep things simple. She sounds incredibly angry. Don’t forget they’re only her opinions, you don’t have to take them as facts.

hero it does feel counterintuitive but it works. Normal cognitive processing relies on the bits of your brain all working together in tandem. When a traumatic event happens, the brain doesn't function in the right way so the trauma, the emotional pain, gets stuck in that ancient part of the brain, bashing about in there, poisoning your life. Drawing out the memory allows the more modern part of the brain to finally process it, and let it become just a normal memory that'll fade with time

The appeasement was incredibly sad to watch. It made sense. It's what I've always done, and by appeasing her I've lost myself and taken out my frustrations on others my whole life

jam I think a really sad part of therapy is realising what that ‘lost’ self might have done and achieved.

I'm just feeling hurt. I was called useless and thick by my father whilst on a call to my mother on skype. I'm 28 and have an exam tomorrow.

With the not going home for Christmas thing is that I just miss my youngest sister whose 16 the most.(I live around 6 hours away). I've already

@jamdhanihash - I'm sorry you had to go through that. Even just reading that account was hard.I haven't tried EMDR but I've been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and have been with my psychodynamic therapist for almost 3 years in december. He's away until the 18th.

For trauma there's also the book "The body keeps the score".