But we took you to Stately Homes" August 2019 onwards thread

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's August 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018 - May 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

No 100percent, no you’re not. Your DSis is so used to bringing gifts to her abuser (your DM and Sis) that it’s almost unbearable to her not to earn a bit of approval from them when she can. You gave her the bullets but she put them in the chamber.

She’s a hoover, a flying monkey. You’re obviously desperate for warmth from any member of your fucked-up family, it’s no surprise you did what you did, you’re human.

@100PercentThatBitch ah that's proper shite. No, you are not the bad one; you're the only bloody decent one out the lot of them by the sounds of it. I hope you're ok xx

Herocomplex thank you for responding. Complicated is a word for this situation. I didnt even think googling was a form of contact! I wish i hadnt to be honest, ignorance was bliss. I wont be doing that again.

Really its just my mother and some of her side that are toxic.
My dad and his family are nice, normal and loving. What a family should be. My stepmother has been a better mother in the short time shes been with my dad than my own mother!
My husbands family is the same. I am very lucky to have them all.
My brother and i are close but its hard, he still lives with my mother and hasnt completely realised what she is. So we have an unspoken agreement not to talk about her.

Thank you i hadnt seen or spoken to her in nearly for years but to know shes gone and i was merrily living my life is hard. I keep thinking of my cousin who has lost his mum and looking at my own ds its really affecting me (i have never been good with death anyway!)

The irony is that it felt like my sister was coming round to that view @MarmadukeM that I might be the decent one after all.

Literally all she has done since she arrived is have very uncomfortable and difficult chats with people, some leading to rows/offence whereas we got on great.

One part of me feels like she used me to solidify her own argument so she doesn't feel like a lone voice and I do absolutely sympathise. I think she's had a crap experience so far.

On the other hand, what she actually used to make her point was a fairly minor thing/side issue that ultimately puts me in the firing line not necessarily instead of her but as well as.

It's such a stupid fucking hill to die on as well.

I never give them (DM/abuser) opinions that I know they don't want to hear and she's done it for me.

and she's done it for me.

The kindest explanation, 100Percent, is that your sister has only just had the scales fall from her eyes and is in a state of FOG and confusion. In that case, it's hard to resist years and years of conditioning, so ingrained is it.

The other likely explanation, as Hero says, is that's she's a flying monkey. And indeed, that's fairly deeply ingrained behaviour too and hard to resist.

Either way, you know to be very very cautious with her now because she can't be trusted unfortunately.

I'm sorry - just when you started to feel you had an ally in your sister.

Does anyone here find it hard to read the details on this thread out of fear of “relating” and realising they’re more screwed up than it looks like. I’m still in the early stages of coming out of FOG and part of me still wants to believe I’m wrong and I’m getting scared of how relevant people’s experienecs are to me to a point I’m finding it overwhelming and taking it very slowww..

I sort of want to convince myself I don’t belong to this camp and things will turn out ok but when I read I see it staring in my face...

I’m still very early in my journey it seems.

@100PercentThatBitch could you/would you want to discuss it with her? Then you would probably feel more certain of her motivations and that may help you get some leave one way or another. X

All the time, MrsNotNice, all the time. The trouble is, once the scales fall from your eyes, they're off for good.

I felt so stupid for a long time because in my professional life, I dealt with many personality disordered people and actually knew how to manage them. It was like a punch to the stomach when I realised what had been going on in plain sight in my own family.

I think I will Marma - in a lighthearted why did you do that way I think I'll also add that while she swoops in for a month making controversial forthright comments I'm the one who lives here all year round

MrsNotNice I’ve had some psychotherapy training and written thousands of words in reflective journals under supervision and still shied away from recognising the extent of the dysfunction in my own family.
Even now when I am facing it square on I sometimes find myself wondering how I could make some repairs, maybe send a birthday card. Then I remember what it’s cost me to acknowledge it and feel very sad.

Take it slow. But remember - your boundaries can be completely unassailable now. Your choice.

I think you are right Lily she is very entrenched in the old dynamic and I don't think it occurs to her she's done anything wrong

Being behind my back is the accepted norm unfortunately

Thanks for replies x

@MrsNotNice my realisation of my enabling mothers part in it all has got me feeling very uncomfortable. I am having a lot of difficulty, emotionally, with accepting the reality. I literally thought she was an angel compared to my abusive stepdad but it's gradually dawning on me that she actually made the decision that hers and his feelings and needs were more important than her young children's. I couldn't imagine being like that with my kids and it sickens me. The truth is bloody ugly. It's better ultimately I think though to exorcise the demons and remove their emotional hold over you. When we were kids we had to convince ourselves of that certain people were well intentioned etc in order to feel safe. I was listening to an audiobook about cptsd and the author said something I really liked, he said that, when his inner critic is telling him that he should be ashamed and disgusted with himself he turns it back towards the people who put it in him (abusive parents) and instead says to himself 'I'm not scared of you anymore mum and dad, and I am disgusted by your shameful parenting of me' it really struck a chord with me x

Hello I’d like to join this thread please. Thank you @AttilaTheMeerkat for mentioning it in my post.

I recently posted in relationships about my mum stealing off me, there seems to be so much going on with it all and I think it’s about time I started finally sticking up for myself and dealing with the situation.

I’m just reading through some of your posts and catching up with all your situations but a lot of them ring familiar to me not just over my mother but with loads of people in my life. I can’t help but think I’ve been brought up with such a behaviour I’ve now let everyone in my life treat me the same and get away with it.

Nice to meet you all

hello Cherry 😊
I do think that predators can sense people who are are going to be easy prey because they have been brought up in families where they were controlled and manipulated, childhood trauma hobble's you from the get go because you start off with boundaries that are shot to pieces.

I received a Hoover yesterday, at first I looked at the words and I felt confused because I believed the words but they don't line up with his behaviour
After a while I was able to see it for what it really is .....it's a crowbar, a crowbar covered in marshmallows to try and make it look like something nice.
He just says whatever he thinks will get me back in line because the end justifies the means.

@Ulterego urgh at him and his marshmallow covered crowbar 😖. Ive decided to send a message to my mother telling her I want no contact from now on for my own sanity. I'll send it on WhatsApp so I can be sure she reads it and then at least I will have got some power back by making the decision to end it for good at my end. Been 8 weeks since I last heard from them but I feel the need to tell them that I am done with them and their crazy behaviour. X

My mother, who I've been NC with for about a year found out I have an ongoing medical issue. She sent me an email (thought I'd blocked her) asking why I didn't let her know, (because you told my siblings and me to never contact you again?). Then a few lengthy paragraphs about her lovely new puppy, (which she will obviously outlive) with lots of photos of it. She signed off, "Please email me back my love, mum x."

Like a twat I took the bait and sent back a friendly neutral email. A week later she emailed to say she'd thought it over and changed her mind because she can't forget the misery of having me as a child and that she has nightmares about me. I can imagine her salivating as she wrote that to me, G&T firmly in hand as usual.

I don't think I've met a cuntier cunt than her, and I've known some evil abusers throughout my life. I'm sorry for everyoe going through the same shit, I don't post here as often as I should.

Ive decided to send a message to my mother telling her I want no contact from now on for my own sanity
Marmaduke, I think this can be a checkmate kind of move if you stick to it, although I would avoid using terms like 'I want no contact' because that frames it as something that you want but leaves open a possibility that they could appoint themselves as those who have the right to grant or refuse your wishes.
What about something along the lines of 'in order to protect my mental heath I am now cutting off contact with you'
it leaves them with no where to go, you've given a reason so they dont need to ask why and if they do they'll be pissing in the wind because you have stated that you wont be communicating with them.
Just my thoughts...but are you not tempted to just leave them hanging to see what their next move will be?

*(which she will obviously outlive) = which will obviously outlive her.

SpamChaudFroid,
Unbelievable, how cold and callous can a person be, also cliched, wtf, she lured you in with a puppy purely so that she could reject and humiliate you.
I'd go round and punch her fucking lights out.
Well obvs I wouldnt but....I'd keep her in my sights and wait, I think.

@Ulterego this is it in its entirety. It's not outing unless she reads this site and let's face it, what have I got to lose?

It’s been 2 months now since i last heard from you. I see you have ‘unfriended’ me on Facebook. I said I didn’t want a drama and that it didn’t need to become a big deal. I don’t understand how it can be more important to you to be ‘right’ than to have a relationship with your daughter and grandchildren. That is fine. I can’t control how you behave, all I can do is control how I respond to it. I need to protect myself; I couldn’t when I was a child but I can as an adult. This latest incident has, disappointingly, shown that deep down nothing has changed. The same patterns are being repeated and I need to step away from it to protect my own mental well-being. This isn’t about punishing you, it’s about protecting myself. I don’t know if you will understand this or not but at least I am giving an explanation. I’m not a naughty child who needs to be step back into line, I’m an adult with feelings and I deserve to be respected. I want to make it clear that we won’t be in contact from now on and that this is why. It’s not about accusation and blame, it’s about what I will and won’t accept in my life; and I won’t accept this treatment. So from now on, we no longer have a relationship. If we bump into each other, I will not enter into discussion with you; just so you are aware. I don’t bear you any ill will, I’m just done. Take care x

I do bear them ill will btw. Big time. But my therapist reckons I can be compassionate if I want even if I don't mean it, whatever makes me feel most comfortable. I haven't sent it yet as it's my dead grans (her mother) birthday today and that would be a bit callous so I will wait a couple of days so they can't chuck that one back in my face. I'm happy for feedback if anyone can see anything they think is I'll advised to include, I read it to my therapist tho and she seemed to think it got the point across alright x

Marmaduke, I think it's excellent and very dignified, it gives you dignity.

I wish I could be that dignified but I cant seem to get past the stage of guttural obscenities and feeling violent.
My problematic parent is subtle, careful to make the attacks fly under the radar and make sure they always have plausible deniability

@Ulterego thanks, I do have all the ranting and raging feelings but I'm not giving them the satisfaction of knowing they still have that effect on me. I just want to seem dispassionate. Plus it gives them less to latch on to/argue with. I can totally picture them being absolutely enraged by it though, as if I have sent a string of expletives and wild accusations. The last time I tried to communicate how I felt with them by email, 9 years ago, it was described as a 'diatribe' - I think I said 'bloody' once and possibly 'shit'.

@Ulterego also, I have written loads of ranty sweary letters over the last few weeks and then destroyed them. I know I have a lot of anger inside me. Sorry your parent is a sly fucker; you have the measure of him though so you have the upper hand x

I cant seem to get past the stage of guttural obscenities and feeling violent.

Me neither ulter, if I wrote about what I'd like to do with her the police would probably be knocking at my door.

I did take the liberty of sending her a copy of "How to train your dog positively", (she would rub our childhood dogs nose in his shit when he had an accident, and calmly clip his lead to his collar so he couldn't run away and whip him with the end of it.) Stand over him shouting and slapping him if he wouldn't eat his food. The note I sent with it said, "That poor, poor dog. I hope for her sake she never disappoints or displeases you".

I hope I do give her nightmares - all of mine involve her in some way.