But we took you to Stately Homes" August 2019 onwards thread

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's August 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018 - May 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

@HockeyMom1974 I think being on here helps you realise that we are not the crazy ones! It's been a great source of support for me recently, I really appreciate it. I also wish everyone a nice peaceful weekend; with people worthy of your time who you actually like and want to be around 😂xx

when mummy and daddy say it's ok
Subtly but insidiously making it your fault🙄
Knowing that you can't call them out on it in front of the children 🙄🙄🙄
I hope things improve for you Hockeymum
Namaste everyone 🙏

ulterego insidious indeed. Namaste all. I saw my parents yesterday. They'd been looking after DD yesterday. No questions, and no drama. I've suffered from hyperhidrosis since puberty. Along with all my hopes and stress, it has gone in spite of this season (early autumn) being the most sweaty season.

Dad died a fortnight ago and I just have to get this off my chest.

M is doing just fine. She sits in his armchair, has filled the fridge with her favourite snacks rather than his, has complete custody of the remote control and has deleted all the "rubbish" he recorded to watch later so she can make space for repeats of her favourite programmes.

She also bagged his clothing and took it all to the charity shop within 48 hours of his death so she has more wardrobe space. So effective was her decluttering, she didn't keep back a full set of clothing for him to be buried in so had to nip into town to buy him underwear and socks. She hadn't thought those things might be needed.

I know all this because I am reluctantly back to being LC with her - phone calls only, every couple of days - for the time being. The last twelve months of NC appear to have been erased from her mind completely.

The phone calls, in which I ask her how she is and she talks about herself exclusively, last for 14 minutes and 45 seconds. At that point, she quickly ends the call because she's "just in the middle of an episode of Midsomer Murders and doesn't know how long the pause button will work".

I'd suspect she uses an egg timer for the call, if it wasn't for the fact that a 15 minute egg would be pretty hard boiled.

Oh she’s coping beautifully then.

I’m guessing it’s deflecting some of her from your DSis, so you’re doing your best for her.

Keep going, Singing you can fade away again soon.

hi Singinglily, do you have a plan for this process? are you going to to phase the phone calls out after a period of time? do you think your mother has a plan?
Also how much of toll is this taking on you, don't you have eggs that need boiling too?

maybe you could get your own egg timers?
Start with a 12 minute and gradually substitute for the shorter ones?

That is my plan, Hero and Ulterego - fade away soon. I just have to get past two milestones (Dad's cremation and the scattering of his ashes - already meticulously planned by M and middle sister as M doesn't want Dad "hanging around in the wardrobe like other widows I know") and then I can disappear gradually over the horizon.

It's narcissistic supply, isn't it? M is getting all the attention she wants and needs right now so she's feeling quite secure and quite content. For the moment, anyway.

I'd always known, really, that this is how she would react. If she'd gone first, Dad would have withered up and died of a broken heart within weeks but M has found a new lease of life.

She'll go on for years and years and years

stick to your plans Singinglily and don't waver, take control of the phone calls, make a spreadsheet make her fit in with your schedule, she might go on for years and years but you can escape now and it won't matter how long she goes on for.
It sounds as if you have temporarily stepped back into the daughter role (?) you can step right out again as soon as you need to.
Yes I agree, she is feeding on your sympathy and growing from it, feeling her power increase, don't get trapped in her web🕸️

My DM used to list all the home improvements she’d make ‘when your Dad dies’. My DSis and I used to find this funny between ourselves, until she sadly pointed out it was tragic she didn’t think we might have feelings about him dying.

It sounds as if you have temporarily stepped back into the daughter role (?)

No, no need, Ulterego. Middle sister is currently engaged in "performance daughtering - Olympic standard" so I'm really superfluous to requirements. It's more about M keeping up appearances to the world at large, I think. After all, she has always been proud of the fact that she has the perfect family so for the time being, I'm needed to complete the family photos. Pity my face couldn't just be photoshopped in.

Hero, my mother had the carpets replaced four days after Dad died. Nothing to do with the irrationality of grief. It was something she'd been itching to do for months. Nothing to stop her now.

Singinglilly you say you are reluctantly back in low contact with her but it sounds like there is some utility in this strategy... you can see what she's up to and that helps you to make a plan in your best interests.
It sounds as if she has completely purged him from her life (I don't know if purge is the right word to use?) She got rid of him pretty quickly didn't she, he's no use to her anymore and she needs a new victim. Getting rid of his clothes getting rid of his ashes, she's creating a vacancy for the next victim.
🕷️ Seeks fly from which to drain the life force so that she can live on

Crossposted, Ulter. Yes, she is purging him from her life, hence her desire to scatter the ashes very soon also he's "not hanging around in the wardrobe". Taking up valuable space.

I was happier, calmer, when NC. I'm just getting through the next few weeks as best I can and then I'll just fade from the scene.

@SingingLily 😘 hang in there xx try and look at this period as an information gathering exercise to reinforce why you are best off without her in your life. It will be interesting to see how long it takes her to find another supply source. X

Thank you, Marmaduke. I can't wait to resume the blissful peace of not having any of them in my life.

There’s no danger lurking from Christmas is there, Singing? You won’t be guilted into anything will you?

No, Hero, the very thought gives me indigestion 😁.

The only member of my family with any influence over me is DSis and the fact that she chose to live a couple of hours away from M is not a coincidence.

I genuinely don't care where M spends Christmas Day. I just know it won't be with me.

That’s good to hear, make sure you have all your ‘closing down’ statements ready just in case.

I think Christmas is going to be difficult for a lot of us.

Sorry to butt in.
I’m quite old and have been a victim all my life due to parental physical and mental abuse.
I thought I was coping, seemed very independent, did lots of things but it all fell apart after my sister died. She was younger than me and became the golden child when she was born. Then was no longer after my brother was born.
We were close, good friends I thought, but when my brother died she again became the golden child and I was cut out of the family.
When she died I fell apart, feeling how pointless everything had been, wishing I had changed it, getting flashbacks of abuse.
Both my long term relationships have been with abusive men who had narcissistic mothers they couldn’t stand up to.
I’ve been married to one for a very long time. It was OK until I became ill. I can’t walk for more than about 5 minutes on a good day, can’t see properly so can’t drive can’t even go out on my own.
He resents me, gets angry, says horrible things. Last night he told me he was waiting for me to die,
I stay in one room to keep away from him. I never go out except for medical appointments. I have no life and I can’t see any way out.

Piper, your situation sounds incredibly difficult 😔I'm so sorry💐
From what you say you are in regular contact with medical professionals, would it be possible to let them know that you are in an abusive situation?

Hey everyone. DP and I are moving in together. I am leaving the town where my parents live. My DD is 5. They've treated DP with contempt since we met.

After being with DP for only a few months our future plans became clear. I was also becoming stronger. M sensed I think that her supply was running low/ was losing power, so launched a verbal attack on me in front of DD in my parents' home. I should have just left but I was rooted to the spot, I think because her opening gambit was to say she was considering going NC with me due to my behaviour. She then went on to call me names and said I couldn't be trusted with DD. DD begged us to stop but 1) I was scared that leaving would give her what she wanted and 2) I was marvelling at how well I was keeping composure. I should have left, and I feel bad I exposed DD to this. Eventually DD got my father, the enabler, who stuck the boot in to me a few times himself.

That was a year ago. DSis has explained I am owed an apology. Instead they minimise (they said my behaviour was bitchy, not that I am a bitch ). DSis is wise to them. We had a typical narcissistic-mother upbringing. I'm unable to think for myself, zero boundaries and crippling suicidal thoughts. I'm a high achieving responsible person.

I'm in therapy and am getting clarity. They still have DD a few hours a week. I will bring that to an end. There's been tons of shit in the past few years. They paid me a house visit last night unannounced. They called DD bad (they use quite negative and emotive language). This morning I asked them to not use negative language to describe her and to ensure she is fed properly. It was a nice message. Father called on behalf of the narc. They are Devastated and Floored by my Awful message. Told them to go away and read the message again and think about what I'm saying to them. Apparently DD is not bad, they know what a bad kid is, as I was one.

So fed up. Would love some perspectives and handholding. Please help me get angry. I think that might help.

Making it all about me?
The narcissist label has been stuck on my mother by more than one therapist in the past, but I suspect it belongs to me really. Right now I'm seeing that more clearly than ever. M is old and ill and I'm supposed to be carer, but for more than ten days I've stayed in the house, not seen her, not answered the phone.
I've told various people - GP, therapist, family, nurses, social services - that I can't do this, but they just say they understand and I will make sure I get her to the next appointment, won't I? So It looks as if my current "breakdown" is seen as purely selfish.

How do I get past this? Not meeting her needs isn't making me feel better.

Thank you Ulterego. I have been having counselling on the NHS, which I was able to self refer for, but it finished some time ago.
Things are OK with my husband right now. Seems he can say what he likes, make up things that never happened or misinterpret them, but if I try later to talk about it calmly I am setting out to make trouble. I honestly don’t know if this is deliberate or not.
I try very hard not to be a burden. Buy what I need online and ask for very little. He goes out when he wants to and I don’t even ask where he is going.
I don’t know what medical professionals could do for me. My mother is in some sort of sheltered housing. She loves it and the company but I seriously would rather be dead than be in a place like that.
Best would be if the house was sold, I got my half and I could buy my own place. I’m sure I could manage and there’s help out there if I need it but can’t see that’s ever going to happen.
I don’t have the mental or physical energy to battle to force the sale. One bad experience leaves me in severe pain with absolutely no energy.
Sorry if I seem negative but I go over and over things in my head and can’t find a way out.
Anyway it helps to talk. I have very few friends as we moved countries a lot with my husband’s job which is why that and the children made it so difficult to get away.
Thank you again.

pelagra I’m quite worried about you, you sound very low. How are you in general? Might you go to the GP yourself?

It’s very hard looking after an elderly sick person, especially if you’ve been in a poor relationship with them.

I don’t think you need to be hard on yourself that’s for sure.

jamdhanihash you just need to disengage, it sounds like they’re playing all the narcissists favourite games. There’s no solution, no words to help.

Sounds exhausting and incredibly soul-sapping. Go forward, live the nice life that’s waiting.