Son wants nothing to do with me!

[Wilf1975]

I was married to my first husband, we had a son & daughter together. My husband was mentally, physically & emotionally abusive to the three of us. I eventually found the strength to leave him when my son was 8 and my daughter was 6.
Six months of him leaving my husband took an overdose and ended up in a vegetative state in a nursing home for four years until he died in 2013.
The three of us were always close until my son started going out with his girlfriend 3 years ago. He walked out 2 years ago and I have not really seen him. I have tried everything to try and be included in his life but he doesn’t want that. He totally despises me and blames me for his childhood. My daughter told me yesterday he is getting married in February and will not be inviting me.
I miss him so much, can’t help but think there is something wrong with me. I have a rubbish relationship with my own mum and didn’t want to end up like that.
I feel tired, the people close to me treat me like rubbish and I don’t think I deserve this. It is just one thing after another, I just want some peace and be a family. It feels like I am always picking up after other people and have no say in things. I feel so sad..........

@Treesthemovie You are acting really pitifully now. I never said an adult woman can't be a victim of abuse. Thank you for once again, twisting my words. Try re-reading my posts and you'll see my point is about a woman with children in her care. Your desperate excuse that they 'know' it will be 10x worse is abhorrent and disgusting and is, yet again, excusing the actual abuse of a child. You continue to elude that women 'give in' because 'it will be worse'. That is just allowing it to continue, and that belief is propagated by yourself - which leads to women thinking it, and thus continuing the cycle, after all, why bother getting out, why try? You can't see how your attitude is dangerous and harmful. You clearly won't stop to think for one moment that your attitude is wrong, backward, dangerous and harmful and that you just might be wrong. The level of cognitive dissonance in your posts and your lack of ability to reflect or ability to consider how your excusing and minimising just might be wrong, just shows as I said, there is no point continuing in a discussion with people with such a prideful, stubborn and fixed mindset. You honestly believe you are right. There is no point trying to reason with you. Please don't @ me again on this thread. Best we just ignore each other because believe me, we will never agree on this.

@ohhimagain who knows. This is OP posting so yes, the post is about her and her situation, so we can only speculate. I have seen the lack of empathy towards abused women on this thread and been really disappointed.

As for her son, it's understandable that he would have complicated emotions towards his mum having grown up in an abusive household, some kids heavily identify with the abused parent and some less so. Some mothers who are abused by their partners go on to abuse their children. This is possible in OPs situation, she may have neglected or abused her kids, which could be the reason for no contact.

It is also possible her son identifies with and takes after his abusive dad, has contempt for his mother and blames her, which is another possible reason. Or, it could be due to an unnamed situation and nothing to do with the abuse. We simply can't know.

@SaraNade yes, you've made it clear that you dont see women as victims of abuse, only perpetrators and bystanders...no need to drive that point home. The only person expressing cognitive dissonance is you and your "feminist" strong women aren't victims mindset.

Ok, time to hide the thread, clearly there is a goady trouble-maker who is doubling down on their ignorance, cognitive dissonance and willful ignorance and making it clear they refuse to consider that their mindset is wrong. They can engage in all the child victim minimisation and lack of empathy for child victims they wish on here. Sadly life won't be kind to them if they don't wake up to themselves. And fast. They will find out the hard way eventually. Seeyah round on other threads guys. I'm hiding this.

Treesthemovie

True. And you're right, no one here can know for sure but the fact she mentioned the abuse suggests that she feels it's a factor - maybe that is what he referred to when he shouted at her telling her she was useless? We all read threads and, especially where the information is scant, fill in the gaps from our own experiences. The posters who have been vociferously supportive of the OP (and particularly critical of me) are no different.

And

"Perhaps he isn't ready to listen to me" after several posts suggesting that she needs to listen to him isn't a particuarly positive sign though.

And whilst I am well aware that this is not my mother (!), much of the narrative is very similar. And it's similar in other adult children of abusive families I have met.

It doesn't matter whether the 'good' parent stayed for fear of it being 10x worse, or because they were protecting their own interests, or because they didn't care, or because they were complicit. The impact on the child is the same.

Spend some time reading the "Stately Homes" threads and you'll get a rich idea of just how deeply childhood abuse and neglect affects for decades. Then google "Aces Too High".

@ohhimagain of course in one way or another the abuse is going to be a factor. However, if her son is blaming her for the actions of his father, there is really not much she can say or do. It's possible that OP refuses to listen to her son's feelings. It's also possible her son has become abusive/comtemptful towards women, which is common for men who have grown up in abusive households.
Should OP tell her son that her abusive exes actions were all her fault - would that help? I am doubtful.

I am not trying to debate whether childhood abuse effects victims deeply, of course it does. However, blame lies with the abuser.

Some posters can't seem to tell the difference between an abused mother and an abusive one - if you have experienced abuse in your own childhood, it would be good for you to get really clear on what the difference is, as it might help you move past some of the trauma.

I am not trying to debate whether childhood abuse effects victims deeply, of course it does. However, blame lies with the abuser.

True.

But you also acknowledge that a good mother supports her child once the abuser has left.

If this has happened, then it would be unusual, don't you think, for someone to be unable to communicate with their parent about it?

"Perhaps he isn't ready to listen to me"

Another child victim here. It's such a hugely complicated issue, that really revolves around long term damage to the child, hindsight of the parent and just the child's need to understand and assert blame in order to make sense of such trauma.

As that child, I struggle to understand why literally any situation could be worse than watching your child be beaten. Saying things like you were facing bankruptcy, does come across as very defensive. So what? Become bankrupt. Nowhere to live? So what? Get charity help like women's aid, contact the council for government housing. Trying to keep your nursing job? So what? Quit your job. Keeping your family safe comes first. Why would you sit by his bedside when he was dying, after what he put you all through?

But, hindsight right? I do try to remember that and let go of judgment, but it's hard to not question how parents, even abused parents, allow those things to happen. I speak as a damaged child, but that's how your son will think too.

I don't think there's anything you can do. You will naturally feel defensive for your situation, you felt you had no way out. Until you did. So what changed? I, and your son can't understand what changed, or why you didn't do it sooner.

I don't know, just give him space and ensure he knows you love him.

Some posters can't seem to tell the difference between an abused mother and an abusive one - if you have experienced abuse in your own childhood, it would be good for you to get really clear on what the difference is, as it might help you move past some of the trauma

Spot on.

Some posters can't seem to tell the difference between an abused mother and an abusive one - if you have experienced abuse in your own childhood, it would be good for you to get really clear on what the difference is, as it might help you move past some of the trauma

Spot on.

Except that nothing will have changed for the OP's son and won't do until she is ready to listen to him and communicate with him from his perspective.

Except that nothing will have changed for the OP's son and won't do until she is ready to listen to him and communicate with him from his perspective

I can't see where OP has said she doesn't want to listen to her son. In fact, she said she's spent the last 2 years trying to talk to him.

I can't see where OP has said she doesn't want to listen to her son. In fact, she said she's spent the last 2 years trying to talk to him.

Talking to someone and listening to them are very different.

She ignored suggestions to listen to him and said

"Maybe he's not ready to listen to me yet".

This speaks volumes.

Talking to someone and listening to them are very different

Seriously, who do you think you're talking to. Do not patronise me ok. I'm done responding with you. You've taken over the entire thread and you absolutely refuse to LISTEN to anyone on here's viewpoints/opinions.

Ohimmagain -

It doesn't matter whether the 'good' parent stayed for fear of it being 10x worse, or because they were protecting their own interests, or because they didn't care, or because they were complicit. The impact on the child is the same.

This is very true.

I want to make it clear I have never or will ever abuse my children.
I am not going to give specifics about the abuse but my husband was an extremely controlling man who made our lives hell. I have always tried to be there for my children. I do see it as my responsibility to provide them a roof over their head and food on the table as any self respecting parent would. They had both been through enough for them then be worried about when our next meal was coming from.
I sat with my husband whilst he was dying because I knew once he was gone we were truly safe and I don’t expect anybody to understand that. I have always been caring and I was not going to allow my husband to change me. Don’t expect anybody to understand that either.
What you don’t choose to listen to is that I had no family or friends around. He had my phone would access my emails and the only time he wasn’t monitoring with me was when I was at work. I hid all our documents in a bag like birth certificates etc and he found it. If you have never been in that situation you have no idea. Just before I left he was even seeing another woman and would flaunt it in front of me.
To leave was extremely hard I had to lie to get to the solicitors to get the help I needed. Who would believe me? That’s what he said.
I have always been very close to my son up until he was 16, he then became very secretive. I do listen to him I have said sorry what more can I do? He left home and I supported him even though it made me sick with worry.
My son has problems because he looks like his father, he thinks others will assume he is emulating him. This is so far from the truth, things have changed between us and I have tried everything. He is angry, I know what’s like to never be accepted by your own family and dysfunctional mother. what upsets me is that he perceives me as I do my own mother. So I have failed as a mother, I want to be a good mother. Nobody chooses to be in the situation that we were. The post does say I or me because my son won’t talk to me so I can hardly describe how he is feeling!

WhatIhave said is that it doesn't make any difference to the experince of the child whether the mother is complicit or terrified and desperate to leave.

What can a mother do then OhHimAgain because it seems like you are saying there is no option at all for women who find themselves in this situation. That child will hate them equally if they leave or if they stand back and do nothing. This is a load of shit.

Your advice 'stay away and let him come back to you and don't try and explain yourself' was fine.

The other things you said were horrible 'you reap what you sow' etc. Really nasty. You keep talking about 'the child's anger' and, understandably, you have a hell of a lot of it.

With respect I will echo what many other posters have said. The op is not your mother. Please for your own sake and the op's try to remember that.

I am struggling (as are many on here) to get my head round how witnessing abuse of children seems to have no accountability. If you have children, it's your duty (and surely desire) to keep them safe as much as is humanly possible. To endure abuse yourself is one thing, but to repeatedly have it happen to your kids takes some serious justification. I have never been in an abusive relationship so I can't imagine how traumatic it would be. But, as a PP said.....abuse to an adult is not comparable to the abuse of a child. OP got out, and that's great, but her son probably witnessed things he can't forget.

Without meaning to sound like a petulant teenager......OP's son didn't ask to be born. He is probably desperate for his Mum to acknowledge the pain he experienced and the pain he carries to this day.

Yes, it was the abuser's fault, not the OP's. But, to those who experienced abuse as a child will remember how desperate, defenseless, scared and alone they felt. This is hard to let go.

I really hope the OP can move forward and put the past behind her. She does not deserve to be so unhappy but her son will want to vent and, rather than be defensive, she should let him vent. This is not him treating her like shit, it is him letting out some of the hurt. He deserves to let go of his past too.

OP, I understand the strength and courage it took you to leave as I have been in that situation myself. The only person responsible for the abuse is the abuser and I dont think for one second that you actively participated in the abuse in any form. I think you did your best in unfathomably difficult circumstances and I dont believe it is your fault at all. The only point I will make is that taking accountability for some of the decisions you made at the time will likely help to heal the relationship with your son. I take accountability that I chose to not leave at the first red flag of abuse or the first time he hit me, I take accountability that I brought more children into this world thinking that if I could make my marraige work then it would be what was best for them, I take accountability that I was not emotionally mature enough to know how to parent in the best way. That doesnt mean I asked for it or deserved it but I own my part in that dynamic.

What I think is really important to consider is that abusive relationships are extremely manipulative and many women do not even recognise they are being abused at the time. The abusive man almost brainwashes you into thinking it is all your fault, if you could just do X Y Z then everyone will be happy, that you are the crazy/selfish/controlling one and if you live in that situation for long enough then you start to see it as reality (that is what gaslighting does). This is especially difficult if you come from an abusive childhood yourself because you can't recognise the fucked up dynamic and that other families don't live this way. It is generational abuse, passed down from family to family until someone breaks the cycle. This is all interspersed with periods of playing happy families, so you think they have finally changed (until it happens again) alongside a campaign of stripping away any support networks, financial abuse, control (I was locked in the house for example) and destroying any last molecule of self esteem you have left as a mother and as a person.

I'm not saying this negates the pain the children suffer in any way but women in this situation are victims in their own right and it has nothing to do with being 'weak' etc. Its calculated mind control and the tactics they use are endless. Victims are groomed from the start and chosen because of their vulnerability.

You cannot live your life in shame or beat yourself up for what happened. It really doesnt help anyone and I'm sure that is not what would make your son feel better. I think the key to healing from this type of abuse is transparency, honesty and openness and all you can do at this time is make sure the door is always open for your son. It must be extremely painful to not be able to be part of his life but it doesnt necessarily mean it is permanent and I think at the moment he is likely trying to make sense of it all.

I really hope you can both rebuild your relationship one day and put the past behind you both

What @Jaffacakesaremyfave said. It's such a complex situation op and as I said iptjread, everyone suffers in these situations.

Exactly, clearly the children have suffered the most, but we can still have empathy for the op.

I think the fact that you have come back to the thread shows that you are listening Wilf1975. Most people have given the same advice, stay back and let him come to you. It must be hard if you fear he might be in a bad situation, but hopefully things will work out well for him and you.

I have never been in an abusive relationship so I can't imagine how traumatic it would be

I am struggling (as are many on here) to get my head round how witnessing abuse of children seems to have no accountability. If you have children, it's your duty (and surely desire) to keep them safe as much as is humanly possible. To endure abuse yourself is one thing, but to repeatedly have it happen to your kids takes some serious justification

Oh FFS. And yet you're on here judging and preaching at the OP about something you admit you know nothing about???? OP removed her children from the abuse. Do you even understand how dangerous it is for an abused women to escape her abuser?

It isn’t victim blaming or a lack of empathy to point out that ops son has a right to be angry with or feel hurt by her, and a right to be heard. Op could post the history of her entire life in minute detail and even if we all unanimously agreed she had done everything humanly possible and couldn’t have done anything differently, essentially it has no bearing on how her son feels. We don’t get to decide on his behalf that he should just agree and move on. However much some posters might want to believe that it’s that black and white.

As a less emotive analogy, there isn’t a parent alive that hasn’t let down their child at some point. For many that won’t be anything more than a minor non issue forgotten in hours. I doubt any parent hasn’t told their child they’ll go to the park or similar and then failed to. Because the car broke down, you got stuck in a major traffic jam, medical emergency or anything else that was completely unavoidable and entirely not your fault. And when your 4yr old bursts into tears and/or gets angry, it’s easy to let them vent their feelings. You don’t get emotional and start trying to justify the fact the puncture wasn’t your fault, you acknowledge their feelings and explain when they are ready to hear it.

Of course, when it’s something that isn’t so minor and instantly forgotten, it isn’t quite so easy to let them vent without trying to justify yourself, but more than manageable. And when it’s something major like abuse, extremely difficult is probably an understatement. But the duty is exactly the same regardless, they are allowed to be hurt, and angry, and blame you before they have to listen to, let alone acknowledge your justification. And then they, and only they, get to decide if they can accept your side.

In addition, those of you virtue signalling how compassionate you are to adult victims by piling on child victims, perhaps you might like to think about your own hypocrisy. Not least because you can’t on the one hand dismiss their side (and mine) as being vile, the result of their own childhoods, projection and so on, and in the same breath try and deny child victims are damaged more than the parent.

wilf please forget the opinion of whoever suggested he is blaming you because he’s angry at his father. I’m double your son’s age and that sentence still makes me want to rip my hair out, scream in frustration, and smash things in a red mist. I know you haven’t suggested it, or indicated you agree, but even having that thought in the back of your mind would be a very dangerous path to tread.