The fucker continues the abuse of kids

[greenberet]

So yesterday I posted how proud I was of both dc getting great grades and first choice uni places and the relief after too many years of worry

Just to point out how well Ds did - he is the second highest in his year point wise - which is bloody fantastic - he had the opportunity to upgrade but has stuck with his choice. The school I believe had written him off!

Well it didn’t last long.

Ds has to secure his accommodation by Sunday - he is off inter railing on sunday for 3 weeks with friends - all paid for by himself from his weekend job - he has been working both sat & Sunday for the last 8 months or so - originally it was just to Christmas but he managed to keep it up.

He is working tomorrow his last day and trying to pack.

The x has said he will pay £250 of his £550 accommodation deposit - he has told ds to phone his GF - x DF - to ask him to release some of the money he holds from the death of x mother - probably in some account that needs notice - and a possibility that GF will not agree - what then?

Ds is now panicking saying he doesn’t want to go - he is getting overwhelmed by the emails coming from the uni - this is typical behaviour of ds - all of which could be eradicated by x just paying the deposit

Will he fuck - he would rather have ds worrying about this for the next two days and not being able to go off on his holiday - ds was already meant to be at a leaving do tonight but has bailed out.

This is all so reminiscent of the school fees saga - x has to have a hold over them both - he was quite happy to attend school with ds yesterday no doubt to take some of the glory despite not paying the school fees for the last two years.

I’ve paid it despite my own precarious financial situation- I would rather not eat than see ds worry.

I’m documenting this still as I’m in liaison with Women’s Aid -

The sooner the kids can cut loose from this fucker the better.

By the way his maintenance will now stop - he’s £840 a month better off - but still holds the kids to a fucking ransom

@greenberet do you really think there's that many abusive people around? Common sense should tell you that's it's far less likely that a group or narcissists and covert abusers have all found themselves on your thread than it is that you are coming across as somebody who should reevaluate.

The irony of this thread is that you are all telling me to move on and sort myself out when you are all harbouring your own issues and have not sorted yourselves out.

Going low/no contact is not dealing with the issue - it’s putting it in a box out of sight - trying to forgive people for not being perfect, for maybe causing you unintentional harm when they were doing their best by you - this is dealing with it and this is love.

My own DM had mental health issues, she was not always there for me emotionally, she had her own demons to deal with - all of which she kept from me - I identified with my father the breadwinner, the seemingly emotionally stable one, Always a daddy’s girl - I could easily have dismissed my DM as weak - vowed I would never be like her ie SAHM financially reliant on a man - and until I met x I was this person - however kids changed me - the battle I had to go through to have them and very nearly didn’t - being a SAHM was a joint decision and We were lucky enough to be able to do this. I never expected to get shafted

now I suspect my parents relationship would be classed as abusive. Also that of x parents - FIL definitely a control freak and expert manipulator.

My DM died without me knowing the full truth of her life. She had to inform the police that her own DF was sexually abusing her sister. He went to jail. I used to see this GRandfather I never knew - I asked my DF how she could have done this - to me this takes huge strength of character to be able to forgive someone that has done something so wrong and move forward and allow them to see their grandchildren

I understand now why she had MH issues - carrying this would cause anyone with a heart issues - maybe she knew her marriage was abusive - she did her best for me not to be aware of this. However I modelled my marriage on them - I never knew it was abusive until it ended - should I be angry with my DM for staying with my DF, should I be angry with her for not teaching me about abusive relationships - I could be all of this - but she suffered to protect me - she did what she thought was right at the time - I cannot be angry with this - I forgive her and know that I judged her wrongly.

However I will not do the same with my DC - I do not want them having an abusive relationship with anyone - however I realise this may all be too late!.

The X is not suffering he is enjoying a life of luxury - he lied through court to achieve the outcome he did - the judge had the proof she ignored it - are you saying none of you would be angry at this? The so called legal system full of corrupt individuals! They Forget it someone’s life it’s just another job to get through to them

@whitershadeofpale - read the following article - then go back through your comments and see if you can identify with the article - I could do it for you but I can’t be bothered - I’m interested to see how self aware you are - whether you can identify your own abusive patterns - including your comments from your last post or whether you will try and bluff your way out of it as is so often the case

www.confusiontoclaritynow.com/blog/covert-abuse-tactics

If you have reported this thread to MN as you are concerned about my MH please own up?

@greenberet I think failing to answer the questions shows your own lack of self-awareness. I'm not angry with my DM or with you either. I've read your link btw, your're right I do have ' total conviction and confidence' because I'm speaking from the heart about my own experiences, not just of my DM but also of life in general.

Having people in your life who continue to hurt you isn't love, either to them or themselves. If you want your children to break the cycle of abuse then that is a very, very unhealthy thing to be teaching them.

I can see why you would see this: "cloak these tactics in concern, love, charm, praise, fake empathy, trustworthiness, smiles and pretending to be your biggest supporter." on this thread, but not by me I'm not your biggest supporter at all and haven't pretended to be, I'm a person who's read a lot of your shit over the years and thinks you need a reality check. I think the fact that so many people are telling you the same would suggest that other people feel the same. Occam's Razor-it's far more likely we all think you're behaving badly rather than all being abusers.

@whitershadeofpale - which questions have I not answered?

I have been told many a time by various professionals that I am very astute and have a very good self awareness - even when in the depths of depression and under MH team - I think I am more inclined to go with what they say

Common sense? You imply I have none - Yes I would expect to find more supporters but the fact that I was shafted by my own DH means people are capable of anything even those that claim to love you. The thing with narcissists though is that they don’t believe they are this so that’s a bit of a non statement isn’t it?

Maintenance should continue until the end of education. While at university they won’t have enough loan/grant to support their daily living (food, etc) and pay rent. You and him will have to supplement that income.

I think you should do three things:

• Immediately consult a solicitor about containing maintenance. And the inheritance. Then leave it up to the solicitor to negotiate and sort out.
• Stop expecting anything from this guy. You are tangled up with him emotionally and financially and you are, understandably, incredibly angry with him and the effect his behaviour can have upon the kids. So the best thing is just to cut him - don’t expect anything. Don’t depend on it.
• Drop it. Drop the ball you’re holding on to, re being left, and everything you’ve done, and how unbelievably wrong it is of him to be directing his attention and possibly money towards somebody else and their kids. Just drop it. Because it’s only going to keep hurting you and your kids. The best way is to just think you’re on your own, and you have two lovely people who are with you, and that’s your family now. Their father is causing them and you yet more grief, so just really turn your back on him. Ask for nothing. Let the solicitor sort it. The best way to feel better is to eradicate him, if he can’t behave more decently.
• And give yourself a massive pat on the back. You’ve got the kids through school. You’re sorting them at uni. You’re doing it all. You’re doing everything right. And the kids see that and you’re the strong one, and the good one. Their dad needs to grow up and stop being so selfish.

Another thought: maybe you deal direct with GF over money meant for the kids?

Just remember: the kids know how great you are. Don’t feel angry. Feel proud and pleased.

@whitershadeofpale

You said this

Your DD will come to see in time that the text she read was right, you are “unhinged and twisted”

You didn’t say “dd may” or that you are “unhinged and twisted” unless you do this or that

I believe this is how you see your mother

You say We're very low contact now and her behaviour has fucked me up far more than my DF's.

the use of “fucked me up” implies that you are angry at her behaviour and overall that you are still “fucked up”

As you have two top degrees and a professional career do you think you are better than her?

Why do you feel sorry for her? Why do you see her as a victim and a martyr - why should she listen to you?

Maybe she has no energy left to make healthy changes to herself - maybe she has given up on herself because she thought what’s the point? Maybe it’s you that has not listened to her - really listened - maybe she is grateful for the low contact if you are always going on at her to do this or that - your disdain for her comes through in your choice of language

You sympathise with your DM you don’t empathise.

You still have scars - maybe my post has triggered some unhealed wounds. As someone else said if you had got over your own issues you would not feel frustrated with me - you would feel “Nothing” - and would be able to offer unconditional support

I have looked at my own behaviour - i am continually looking at my own behaviour

I’m not sure what you mean here are you saying that I’m teaching them that people who hurt them is love

Having people in your life who continue to hurt you isn't love, either to them or themselves. If you want your children to break the cycle of abuse then that is a very, very unhealthy thing to be teaching them

Thankyou @lottelupin - I cant supplement them anymore that is part of the issue! If I could they would not be needing anything from him!

I have no money to spend on solicitors and to be honest I’ve lost all faith in legal system - x will just fart about like he did through divorce and rack up fees - can’t deal with GF direct either he ignores me and uses any contact with him as a form of harrassment.

I am very very proud and pleased for my kids but my mood right now has been diminished from this thread and I just feel jaded and worn down when really I should feel supported

This is how I feel taken from that link - thank you again for telling me you think I need a reality check @whitershadeofpale

Gaslighting / Distorting Reality

Gaslighting causes confusion, questioning reality, and feeling crazy. You doubt yourself, your perception, your judgement and your abilities. You end up feeling like there’s something wrong with you but you don’t know what it is. You second guess yourself, and feel paranoid and oversensitive. You’re afraid you’re over reacting because you’re defending yourself against something you can’t identify.

Gaslighting messes with your sense of reality and creates a reaction in you: anger, frustration, sadness, confusion. When you react, he implies your reactions aren’t rational or normal.

“You’re not going out of your mind; you’re slowly and systematically being driven out of your mind.”

My lovely friend’s therapist advised ‘radical acceptance’ when she felt exactly the same way as you, after what she perceived as years of the same. Radical acceptance as you only have control over your own actions and feelings, and continue to hurt yourself by trying to control the actions and feelings of others.
My lovely friend has a host of mental health issues and like you would retire to bed when it all got too much, for what she evaluated as self care.
What are your mh team or gp advising? She really didn’t like the radical acceptance advice. Like you, she felt that would be letting ‘them’ win and that it was her duty to keep trying to control her ex’s behaviour ‘for the sake of the children’. Like you, this encompassed turning 18 and moving off to university. I see a lot of parallels.
My lovely friend was suicidal because of how she perceived she had been treated. Her dd was suicidal largely because of her mother’s ongoing mh problems. Despite this, the same year she passed her exams with excellent results and was offered uni places for medicine. Mostly while crying herself to sleep and calling suicide hotlines during the night.
University was the best thing that ever happened to her. She’s actually switched programme to Social Work now, and is low contact with both parents. She recognizes very clear that her father (and his new wife) use money to control. And she recognizes that her mother’s mental health means that relationships are very hard for her, with a strong self-sabotaging impulse (very strong victimhood complex, blaming everyone else for everything).
Radical acceptance is bloody hard. It’s especially hard for people who believe they have no control over their own circumstances, but who cannot stop themselves from seeking to control other people.
The alternative to radical acceptance is you keep on trying to fight with a man who left you five years ago. Hurting yourself and your children.
Radical acceptance isn’t fair. But it insists that people take responsibility for their own actions. Support your children to follow up on their inheritance (legally). Apply for student loans. (What is the plan for the rest of the university payments? Fees? Living expenses?) Sit down with your children and work out how to get through university without their father. Anything he provides is then a bonus. Have them speak to the university about their financial position. Show them how to adult. Having to put a positive plan in place to allow them to reach their goals will go a long way to showing all of you that your ex no longer has any power.
Admittedly you might not have the ability for this if your mental health is poor, and it might seem overwhelming. In which case, find someone else to do it in your stead. Career counsellor from school. Student advice service from whicheveruniversity. CAB.
You and your children need to empower yourselves by taking control of your own destinies. Remove his power. You can only control yourselves. No one else.

Bravo. Thats what i wanted to say but far more succinctly.

Greenberet, I'm honestly not trying to upset you further but I don't understand why you think the kids need financial supplementing whilst at University. I'm only asking because this seems to be such a cause of anger for you.

My ex too can easily afford to help but he has chosen not to assist in anyway. It's totally shit but it is what it is.

My son has managed really well on his loan. It has definitely taught him independence. He has a part time job in holidays which has helped and he even buys us all a takeaway from time to time ( he's a sweetheart).

Our financial circumstances have changed beyond all recognition but we manage. I like the fact that we have done it despite him if that makes sense. I do understand the stress involved and you've had a really crap hand dealt to you.

I know you feel attacked, justifiably by certain posts, but truthfully I think you aren't getting the support you expected because you are coming across very aggressive and angry and then posters find it harder to sympathise ( I know you don't want pity but that's often where the support comes from ). Of course you will deal with this how you want to, and that is completely your right. But I have experienced similar to you ( not the same obviously )my daughter went through similar to your son and it's incredibly painful to watch them suffer. But our life is happy now again, not because I'm a saint but because I made the choice to move on from it.

Your ex, like mine is an absolute arsehole, but I think by still expecting any form of decency towards the kids you are almost setting yourself up for anger and disappointment.

But I would gently suggest at some point it's good to make a choice to not allow the past to damage your future or your life anymore.

What happened to the whole "the best revenge is living well" idea?

My relationship with my DM isn’t the subject of this thread. If I needed help I’d post my own. I brought her up as an example to show you the outcomes that occur when people perpetrate similar emotional abuse to that which you’re giving your DCs. I think other posters will see where I’m coming from.

@Ornery that’s sums it up perfectly. Thank you.

I cannot be bothered to defend myself anymore - I do not give a fuck if he thinks he is winning - all I care about is the impact all this has on my kids - I am not trying to control the situation or my x behaviour - I am not that stupid but a lot of you seem to think I am - I know how my kids feel because they come to me either displaying anxious behaviour in the case of my Ds or anger in the case of dd.

@Ornery - I get what you are trying to say but some of your choice of words imply that you do not totally support your lovely friend - does she suffer with depression too - if so she does not “retire” to bed! There is only one parallel kids going off to uni - I do not have a host of MH issues.

Do you know for a fact that her dd was suicidal due to DM MH problems or was it as a result of the shite she was going through. I do not have a problem with relationships I have an issue with abusive relationships!

I am no longer under MH team my Gp who supports me wholeheartedly does not see it as necessary.

I feel very sorry for your lovely friend - I wonder what she would feel about you if you showed her what you have written here

You all talk about feelings telling me I can’t control the feelings of others yet you are all trying to control mine - telling me I shouldn’t feel this or I shouldn’t feel that

I feel what I feel that is one thing I have bloody learnt in this whole process - some people are only capable of sympathising - others can go a lot deeper than this and empathise.

Please do not tell me what I should or should not be feeling - I say please because otherwise I am deemed aggressive and have anger issues.

Actually I do not believe we have control over our own circumstances - Sometimes I think fate plays a hand so where do you want to take this?

We get choices yes - as for sitting down and work out how to get through uni without their father - not going to happen - he pays for their phones - if they stop contact with him no doubt he stop paying for this

Yes, Ornery said it.

Expect nothing, then anything you (plural) do get from him of a positive nature is a bonus.

Plan your life and your kids' lives/time/support at university as if he doesn't exist. Yes, as Ornery said, go and talk to student support, etc, and make sure they know the situation and ask them for every bit of help you can get.

But something else Ornery said made me think twice. The model of this:

Ex-husband and new wife (often originally the OW and/or best friend of original wife ...) - they are selfish and use money to control.

Mother of children - victim complex, thinks everything is his/her fault, despairing/hopeless/can't get herself out of it, eaten up by resentment, etc.

Hmm. This isn't just a one-off, just the people Ornery knows. This is time and again how the woman left holding the baby(/ies) feels. And there is definitely a way through it, and you need to get on with it and be one of the ones who puts it behind them.

It's a bit like there being commonly-experienced, clearly-identifiable stages of grief. There are common feelings when you've been treated badly. BUT, and this is a massive BUT: if you want your life back, and you want your children to be happy and successful in the way they have deserved to be from when they were tiny, then you HAVE TO lose the chip on your shoulder. YES he has rejected you. YES he has run off. YES he's using money to control you and make you feel bad. YES you feel beyond angry at the position you've been put in, through no more fault than your relationship having come to the end of its life.

So you have a gigantic, totally justifiable chip on your shoulder. Noted. Anyone who loves you totally agrees that you've been treated badly. And there is no defence against straight abuse apart from ... really and truly walking away.

Regroup totally, with the kids. Do what Ornery suggests. Create a world where this guy doesn't exist. IVF - great - that means he was there to support you when needed. Now you don't need him. The kids are here. They're with you. Make him redundant. Sack him. Show him the bloody door. You don't need him. Really erase him. Gone.

It will seem difficult or impossible sometimes, but the moment you stop thinking 'he needs to help out with this cost' or 'why am I helping my child carry 25 bags up 4 flights of stairs in student halls when their dad should be here helping??' etc etc ... the moment you realise that he just isn't there, doesn't exist ... that's when it will feel much easier to sort out the money, and much better climbing up those stairs.

It's all a cliche - the advice that to move on you have to go through the motions of the right steps to take, even if unconvinced, and then after time you'll start to feel better, and then it will get much better, and one day you'll have your life back - a total cliche. But cliches are such for a reason. So many have had to face this same journey before. So just do the same thing - don't reinvent the wheel, and don't feel stuck - just follow the path out. Someone's dropped some crumbs to follow. Hell, there are massive signposts and sanitary facilities and a Prosecco bar on the way out of these woods - SO many have been here before.

Follow the signs, do what we're saying, and sooner or later it will work, and you'll be out of this, and it won't be able to hurt you or your children any more.

Thank god the bugger has gone - let him go. Be glad he isn't being a pain in other ways. The way out is relatively easy. : )

Um, apologies for urgent repetition of 'totally'!!
I really meant what I was saying : )

It is bloody irritating when people make suggestions to deal with stuff I have already dealt with - if you are going to comment at least have the courtesy to read the full thread!

@whitershadeofpale - your brought your DM into this thread tried to make comparisons with her to me

You say people perpetrate similar emotional abuse to that which you’re giving your dcs. I think other posters will see where I’m coming from

Can you expand on the emotional abuse you think I’m giving with factual examples - because I do not believe I am emotionally abusing them - I see no signs from them That would indicate this - if anything over the last few months I have seen them both become far stronger emotionally and more confident in themselves.

They could be hiding it all of course but you lot seem to know it better than I do

@Banjodancer - believe me when I get here you will now about it - hopefully only another couple of months - but will it stop him emotionally abusing the kids - I doubt it very much - he will be so pissed off that he didn’t destroy me that he will have to do something to try and gain the upper hand - probably marriage proposal - only thing left [grin x 1000]

You know though don’t you some people don’t get to walk away - that is what I fear he is capable of - emotionally - not necessarily to me though but the kids! He is capable of extreme cruelty and nastiness

I’m out of here

@Rowan10 - just wanted to reply to you - thank you I can see you mean well

It’s them that think they need this - I haven’t gone through the finances yet with them because this is where he stepped in - I am not able to support them if they need it - he said he would help them - I did not expect it to be conditional but I should have known better.

Perhaps this is where the confusion is - because each time we move on to a new stage I think surely this time he is going to see the kids right - I thought I am no longer involved - he is no longer paying maintenance so he is cash up - he knows I have little money due to school fees and rent - I’ve already stayed on longer than I intended - so each month financially impacts on me going forward - I did not expect there to be an issue over the deposit - I did not expect he would put the kids through the anxiety of this - but he does and this raises the whole cycle of abuse again.

I am exhausted maybe some have forgotten that I am packing to move out of the family home at the same time as getting the kids organised - yes they should be doing it themselves but I have to givey them up! I had to get through results day

This is not poor me, victim, self sabotaging or martyrdom - this is me as it is trying to do my best day in day out - all I needed was a Bit of recognition of this - that’s all - thanks to those that get it

@lottelupin - I will be one of the ones that get through this - do not underestimate that

I have no resentment - he did me a huge favour by leaving - set me free for a new life and a new man - one that understands MH for a start.

through no more fault than the relationship coming to the end of its life

No it is more than this - severly let down by legal representation which I am still trying to rectify - but most on here think this is me just looking to blame anyone

No chip on my shoulder - I like cliches so I get what your saying

I always say I come on here for two reasons to get support and share my story so that hopefully nobody else goes through this - there is a defence against abuse and that is education

X

Can I just say to those calling people cunty or saying they're horrible to OP.

OP left her ex over 7 years ago, she got a huge settlement and maintenance, she has then obsessed over every little thing he does or does not since. She has no intention of ever working and thinks her ex should pay for everything and she should pay nothing.

I totally understand the desire for the kids to have a financial back up. It does scare me sometimes that if my son had a problem at University I probably wouldn't be able to help him. So it's fingers crossed time !! It makes me sad he's had to grow up so quickly but in some ways it's also done him good, and he's taking responsibility for himself which can only do him good in the long run.

I'm sorry if you feel people are telling you what to do / how to feel. From my perspective I was trying to say what worked for me in case it helped. It's horrible to deal with and you do have my sympathy and definite recognition that you have done a good job under really difficult circumstances.

Mine still plays games, we have had no contact for a year, but I had to email him in June asking if he could pay the Child maintenance (only for my DD) a whole day early. I had to pick up my son with all his stuff up from University and the petrol cost is £80. I was broke that month due to car service, but he refused. Then in July he deliberately paid it a day late. I decided to ignore it and almost found it funny. He thinks he still has power but he doesn't. That's all I mean by he can only hurt or control me and the kids if we let him. But I do realise your in a harder position because he is still promising things to your children, and then putting conditions on that help.

And tomorrow is GCSE results for my daughter. He last texted her in February ( not seen her for 2.5 yrs). She received a text today "Let me know your results, Dad". She laughed and said as if. I honestly pity him, that he can get everything so wrong. He has no idea of what she's been through (self harm / depression / counselling) because when I tried to tell him he said I was making it up to make him feel guilty !! So I gave up telling him anything.

So I do get it as much as someone can, but I know ignoring his knobberry has helped me so much. If somehow you and the kids can achieve financial independence from him it may set you free a bit. I can truly say I'm happy now. I hope that you get there too (when you are ready) and wish you luck with the move and getting the kids ready for University.

@ReapersHowler - think you have got me mixed up with someone else I didn’t leave he did as for a huge settlement nope not me.

Currently I don’t think I’m employable and as I’m the middle of moving over 200 miles where would I work here or there?

As for x paying everything - don’t make me laugh.