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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Demise of marriage? Feelings turned by one conversation!

289 replies

Freetodowhatiwant · 15/08/2019 13:37

I don’t really know where to start. I have been with DH for almost 20 years and married for almost 10. We had a lot of fun for the 10 years prior to getting married – travelling and plenty of going out. I’ve been with him since age 25 and am now 45. He is 11 years older but this isn’t an issue, he’s very youthful in many ways. We have two children aged 7 and 4.

Our relationship has many positive aspects – when we have time to hang around together we laugh and share the similar interests. There are no significant domestic issues in terms of housework and cooking. He used to do much more than me pre-kids and now I do probably more as I am at home more (work from home). The house is a bit of a mess but this is because of the kids and we both try our best so that’s not a huge issue even though there is the occasional argument about this I think it's normal.

To my friends who’ve moaned about their partners for other reasons (two have DHs who don’t do anything around the house) I have always said that mine and DH’s relationship is 80% good, not perfect but enough to keep us together.

Herein lies the problem though. The 20% bad has been his anger issues. He had had them from the beginning. Most of the males in his family had the same issues. He often gets angry for no reason. Getting ready in the morning is a particular issue. He will shout and stomp around and if the anger is directed at me can sometimes seriously intimidate me. He has never hit me but he has loomed over me many times and his face and body are terrifying. He’s 6ft and I’m 5.5ft so he has a height and physical presence that can scare me. There have been times this has happened in front of the children and the children and I have all been hugging and waiting until it passes. He’s a mental health professional (I know) so there are times when he has been able to keep this under control for a while (taking St John’s Wort helps) but there have been many times when he is angry and I feel like I am treading on egg shells. Sometimes this has been on a daily basis, particularly for a few hours in the morning, and has ruined a good part of the day. He is always sorry afterwards and he knows he is out of order. I am not perfect of course, but I am just focusing on DH’s anger issues. I am by nature, I think, quite a happy person but when he has one of these angry episodes it really plunges my mood.

Here’s the weirdest thing. In January he had two angry mornings in a row, nothing out of the ordinary, and on the second morning something just clicked inside me and I suddenly thought ‘I cant do this for the rest of my life’. My mood plunged and I entered a low depression from which I didn’t emerge for a couple of months and to be honest it is still bubbling under the surface and although I am carrying on with life as normal I am still quite emotional. This is very very unusual for me as I usually brush things off but it was like all the angry episodes over the 19 years we had been together just built up into one homogenous mass that has eaten away at me.

Whilst I have been thinking about an alternative future it has also given me feelings - unrelated to his anger issues - about whether I want to be with him for another 20+ years. It now just all feels like an awful long time. I have told him all this and we have had a couple of conversations about our future. The thing is since telling him how my feelings have changed for him he has kept an incredibly good check on his moods, not perfect but I am not saying I am either. But my low feelings and doubt about whether I can be with him for the rest of my life haven’t changed though and I find myself trawling the boards here trying to find some solution, researching divorce, researching people who have stayed together and not really knowing wtf to do.

It’s like I am in a quiet crisis, carrying on with day to day activities and life. We are abroad for the summer and he has gone back to the UK to work for a couple of weeks and I haven’t really yet missed him. This upsets me because like I said the 80% that was good meant we had fun together. We are lucky enough to have family to babysit and we can often go out. But the fact is I can’t seem to get over the build up of angry moods and a huge part of me feels the pull of freedom seems more and more attractive. I have emotionally checked out of the relationship and I don't know how to get back or if I want to. I can tell he knows this and he is trying his best but it isn’t making a difference at the moment. The thought however of tearing our family apart is also terrifying. I just don’t know what to do.

If you have got this far, well done! Any thoughts would be amazing.

OP posts:
Time40 · 09/01/2020 14:39

Thank you for your explanation of why your mum didn't call the police. I didn't realise you were not in the UK when the incident happened. I'm not sure I would call the police in a foreign country either - you have no way of knowing how they are going to react, have you?

I agree with a previous poster - you do sound lovely, OP!

The most dangerous time is usually around separation

I've heard this over and over again. You get out of there, OP, but when you do, don't tell him you're leaving. Wait until he's out of the house, and then just go.

YasssKween · 09/01/2020 15:02

@ferretyone

Suggesting relate?! Are you KIDDING?!
Jesus Christ what a ridiculous thing to say.

OP - you must get out. Imagine if he'd have stood / stamped just a little further down. Done irreparable damage and left your kids without a mother and with him. It's not unprecedented anymore. What if he lost his temper that way with them? Imagine your heartbreak if you had to look at your child with a bruised face, a bootprint on them. Please call womens aid and start working on a plan to get out. This man is dangerous.

I don't THINK I am in any immediate danger with him but of course I do realise that it's hard to ever know this for sure.

Immediate danger from what? You've already experienced immediate danger when he stood on your face. My love, you don't need to be sure he will kill you to have the choice to leave. What he has done is more than enough reason. I want to swoop in, scoop you up and take you far away from him - and I don't even know you. That's how serious this situation is. What would you say if your child was in this relationship? Be the blueprint for them - show them that if someone is abusive then you leave.

Please stop saying you "could" be in danger. Not only are you in danger, the danger has already resulted in you being injured, belittled and terrified.

Oh my love I wish we could all form a wall around you to protect you from this cunt of a bully.

If we can help with finding services etc please ask. Everyone wants you and the kids to be safe Thanks

midwest · 09/01/2020 15:15

OP he abuses you in front of your dc, this is abusive for your dc.
You aren't to blame for your dc being abused, that is all on him but you do have a responsibility to protect your dc from this harm.
By choosing to stay with him you are continuing to place your dc at risk of harm.
I know this sounds really harsh but as a child protection social worker I wanted you to understand this.
Please try and engage with woman's aid and protect yourself and your dc.

FFSFFSFFS · 09/01/2020 15:25

I really really really want to believe that the kids and I are not in any immediate danger

Oh well. Fingers crossed he doesn't kill your children because you still don't have the courage to take the steps you need to keep them safe right now.

FFS. Get your children safe.

Mary1935 · 09/01/2020 15:32

You need to leave him OP but you are telling him too much. You need to call women’s aid ASAP re a safety plan. Sadly he’s another abusive men and it isn’t anything to do with you.
I’d say something in passing to my ex and they store it up for later. He was putting you in place.
You need to be very careful as the most dangerous time is when you are leaving.
I’d be doubtful he’s sorry.
They keep doing it again and again.
He’s abusive. He will not change. No joint counselling at all.
Call women’s aid,

FGSJoanWhatsWrongWithYou · 09/01/2020 16:36

he had immediately calmed down

I really really really want to believe that the kids and I are not in any immediate danger.

The immediate calm shows the immediate danger.

The top blew off the pressure cooker. The pressure grew through him suppressing his anger for 3-4 months. It finally blew because you had the nerve to argue followed by the temerity to be unsympathetic to a minor injury. He felt better immediately upon beating you up.

The pressure will be building extra fast now. You are persisting with leaving actions despite him wanting you to drop it. He is showing you his pain and you are being unsympathetic again. He has experienced the instant gratification of smashing your face in. Immediate blessed relief from that awful pressure he was feeling.

I expect it will blow again quite soon. Maybe a month if you are lucky. Likely over something small where he feels slighted. Or something concrete happening with house sales, moving out etc.

Your second beating will be worse than the first.

If I were you I'd be doing a midnight flit with the children to somewhere else: short term rental, your parents, anywhere, as soon as possible.

LasthingIlldo · 09/01/2020 16:58

Op I am horrified and how things have unravelled since you first posted about a man with angry outbursts to full on assault.
Like many other posters I too grew up with an angry violent father/ man in home.
The worst was wondering when the next outburst would be. The modifying my behaviour to never upset or disturb him. The physically making myself smaller in the same room as him so that he wouldn't notice me. It had got to the stage that just sitting down with my legs on floor would set him off if he bumped into them (on purpose).
The angry outburst or at times physical violence was the relief, end of that cycle and I too would be numb frozen and unafraid of him. A brief phew that storm has passed. Maybe the next one won't be the same maybe I'll try harder to avoid annoying him.
This as a child, this is what leaving will protect your DC from. Protecting them from a lifetime of anxiety, of nervous energy, of watching peoples moods.
And leaving will free you from this awful awful existence that you do not deserve.

Idonttrackpeas · 09/01/2020 17:22

I agree with @FGSJoanWhatsWrongWithYou. From experience, once the taboo is broken the whole thing escalates. The next one will be worse. Take care OP

RhinoskinhaveI · 09/01/2020 17:37

he had immediately calmed down
agreeing with what FGSJoan said...this suggests to me that his attack on you provided him with a sense of release and relief
release and relief is pretty close to pleasure
after attacking someone wouldnt you think a 'normal' person would be very shaken up and take a long time to calm down...??

Thickums · 09/01/2020 17:56

Anger followed by violence becomes like alcohol to an alcoholic in these circumstances.

A person feels bad so grabs a drink and feels immediete relief. The next day they feel shit and vow not to drink again.

The next time they feel bad and need a relief.. They do what? Reach for a drink.

Why?

Because the underlying issue hasn't been resolved. They haven't worked on why they felt so bad, what triggered them, why they decided to drink. They just made an empty promise. When in the height of emotions all promises go out the window, they have no other coping strategy in place. So they do the only thing they know will give then immediate relief. Drink.

Thus the cycle repeats. Before you know it, alcohol becomes their relief strategy.

Replace alcohol with violence. This the start of the cycle.

Ive never heard of a man attack their partner, cry and then never touch them again with no work on themselves or seeking any support. Never ever ever has that happened.

Rutheroot · 09/01/2020 18:25

Your children have already been damaged by living in this scary and stressful atmosphere all their lives. Don't make it any worse. This is not your fault but you have a responsibility to protect them.

'Wanting to believe' this dangerous man is not going to harm you or your children is just deluded. You need to seek advice and leave immediately (without letting on that you are).

Helpfullilly · 09/01/2020 18:47

I honestly believe you and your children are in grave danger.

This man could be my father. There is so much I want to to say, but the biggest is that you must be very careful how you go about leaving. My father was a lot like this and when my mum starting talking about leaving and trying to leave... I can't really describe it, everything escalated. The mask finally came off basically and I saw what was underneath the 80%.

He did not want my mum to leave and he was willing to do awful things to try to stop her leaving, even if he disadvantaged himself in the process. This is because the abuse comes from a need for control and a sense of power. You leaving with the children will result in a massive loss of control and power. I was a young adult, and it was hell, I can't imagine putting a 7 and 5 year old through it.

My mum thought he'd react with anger, but at first it was tears and begging her to stay. Then claiming he was going to kill himself and talking through how, and how me and my brother would never forgive her. He then started talking about killing us all so we'd always be together, suggesting setting fire to the house or crashing the car. There were several times when I thought he might seriously injure or kill my mother, me or my brother. Nights spent huddling in terror in the same bed as her. His own family thought he might kill her, too. I was getting calls off his sister, hysterical, saying he was out looking for my mum. He used my brother and I to manipulate her. One night he had been doing his best to make me cry so he could put me on the phone to my mum, saying she'd done that to me and I needed her. It was just to get her back to the house.

We didn't realise it was abuse to begin with, we thought he'd had a mental break and the he needed psychiatric care, as it was such an escalation. He ended up in a private mental health hospital from which he continued to harass us via his family and over the phone. He also got sectioned by the police after showing up at my mum's work and kicking off, claimed to have overdosed, but he was released as it was decided he was 'emotionally tormenting' us rather than mentally ill. I was getting texts about him having possible cancer, everything he could think of so I'd engage with him.

He repeatedly tried to harm and mentally abuse my brother and I to use us against mum. He wanted us to say we'd never see her again if she didn't come back to him and offered bribes. Which was when I realised he'd never loved us. I used to think deep down he must love us really purely as he was my dad, and he wasn't always terrible, but actually, it was all about my mother. About keeping and controlling her. He didn't care, and had never cared, what his actions did to his children. We were possessions and tools to use against her. If he'd ever cared, he would not have ever started being abusive to begin with, even with times in between were he seemed 'normal'.

It went on for months. I had to flee the family home with almost nothing and I was homeless, living between different relatives and with my boyfriend's family. He stalked us all, I was constantly afraid he'd turn up where I worked. He was even harassing my elderly grandfather, calling my younger cousins to shout about us and he sent people into where I worked to try to get me to speak to him. Sending messages about our individual roles in killing him followed by jewellery and flowers.

He got warnings from the police, but no one really did anything to help us. The police were a mixed bag, but while several very much wanted to help they couldn't do much due to the law (coercive control was not a crime yet). I once sat in the GP surgery sobbing, begging for help from my GP who just said if my dad loved me he'd come into the GP surgery and he'd listen to me as I was his daughter. I kept trying to explain my dad wasn't like that, but he wouldn't listen.

It was the Samaritans who told us it was abuse and encouraged us to essentially go into hiding (which shocked me because I didn't think they were supposed to give advice, but the lady we spoke to was frightened for us). Women's Aid, when we finally found them via Google, were horrified by our experience and said we were in serious danger, because this sort of thing can be the precursor to greater harm or murder. They were amazing. They understood it all in a way no one else had.

We finally got a very good young police officer who recommended a non-molestation order. This is a bit like a restraining order which would allow the police to protect us. Between this and Women's Aid, we finally got some freedom and support, including counselling for my mum.

However, I have needed so much counselling afterwards myself, and I will always carry scars. The abuse before was bad, but that period of escalation left me especially traumatised. I'd do anything I could to protect young children from anything close to that during a separation from an abuser.

Based on my experience, I think the best thing to do is not to discuss leaving at all. Instead to act like everything is fine now and make plans to leave secretly. Make sure you have all key documents and sentimental items and just leave suddenly without any sort of warning. Go somewhere he can't find you or the children, then handle him through a solicitor.

If you had to stay in the family home or somewhere he knew where you are, I'd change the locks, get CCTV and an alarm system. Again, all contact through a solicitor only. Call the police if he contact or comes near you, repeatedly, if only to have a record you have done so.

I's say I don't want to scare you, but I do, because you should be afraid. If you are afraid of him then you will take the risk he poses to you and the children more seriously.

I am thinking of you and your children, and very much hope you manage to get out safely, without experiencing further harm.

AnotherEmma · 09/01/2020 18:58

"I really really really want to believe that the kids and I are not in any immediate danger."

This is the most terrifying thing about this thread. I think a tiny part of you knows that we're right and you're in grave danger. But the rest of you is in denial and that part is winning. It's absolutely chilling.

This man could easily kill you. Don't wait to sell the house. Get the fuck out of there. Or report him to the police and get an occupation and non molestation order.

Have you spoken to women's aid at all?

RhinoskinhaveI · 09/01/2020 18:58

Helpfullilly, your account is harrowing:( I hope you're OK now?
I second all that you say about leaving discretely and silently

whensa · 09/01/2020 19:36

OP the unpredictable "flicking of a switch" nature sending him into this severely violent state is the scariest thing to me. You'll never know when it's going to hit you next. Please please get out.

Helpfullilly · 09/01/2020 20:09

@RhinoskinhaveI

Thank you for your concern. I am safe now. I have a lovely husband who has never been remotely abusive and an amazing group of friends who are like a second family, replacing those relatives I am now no contact with.

There are long term ramifications, such as suspected PTSD, but I've had private counselling with someone who specialises in abuse. This has massively improved the trauma symptoms and my overall quality of life. I've also moved so far away I don't have to worry about bumping into my father or being found by him.

While I have had some dreadful experiences I'm determined not to let them stop me having a good life, and I am honestly the happiest I have ever been.

Though it's obviously best to try to avoid exposure to abuse, there are a lot of kind people out there and it is possible to rebuild after abusive experiences. I really want anyone going through anything similar to know that, too. Life is so much better on the other side.

MulticolourMophead · 09/01/2020 20:16

I really really really want to believe that the kids and I are not in any immediate danger.

You are in immediate danger. His actions were deliberate, and show real contempt for you. He's only nice because you're doing what he wants.

But he's crossed the line into real physical violence. And he WILL do it again. He no longer has the restraint of that taboo, as a pp mentioned.

eddielizzard · 09/01/2020 21:02

I've read your thread from the beginning and got a chill when I realised it was from August. That could only mean it got worse. Look at his actions, words are meaningless. His actions are escalating, and I'm afraid I also think you're in danger. You don't want to make a fuss or upset the children, of course, but he has changed the game here. It's not you breaking up your family, it's your abusive arse of a 'd'h.

[Flowers] so sorry you're having to deal with this. What do your mum and dad think?

FGSJoanWhatsWrongWithYou · 09/01/2020 21:59

I am hurrying forward the process of selling the house and hopefully if we make the transition to a new town at the same time as him getting a separate place that will be less disruptive for the kids.

You've got a whole bunch of assumptions and wishful thinking packed into that sentence!

The sale of the house will likely trigger another incident with him.

Completing on a house sale takes ages. You are planning to stay with him to release that money and then use it to get your own place, which will of course take a while. You assume you can keep everything calm for all this time. Really? Really? This shows you buy into the abuser's script that the victim makes it happen and can stop it happening. If the victim behaves herself then the man won't beat her. It's in her control, in your control. This is incorrect thinking. Also daft because the sale will be a major flashpoint. Even before that, expect successful viewings etc to result in some form of punishment for you.

You assume he will go quietly. He will move out easily as per your plan, he will make it all easy and lovely, la la la, flying pigs. He ground your face into the floor with his foot. He's not going to just go quietly. Abusers don't do that.

How about trying a different way of thinking? Hope for the best, plan for the worst Imagine him in his most angry tantrum. Imagine he's in that mood permanently for the next year (maybe he's only tantrumming in his head not out loud). When he's like that, what decisions would he make about splitting up? What could he be a dick about? How could he interfere? How could he weaponise the children? What would bad-him do?

SunshineCake · 09/01/2020 22:08

It was such a sinister thing he did. I am part way through your thread and I really hope I get to the end to read you've left him.

RhinoskinhaveI · 09/01/2020 23:10

FGSJoan I fear you are dead right 😔

Lozzerbmc · 09/01/2020 23:16

So he’s assaulted you! Please get away from this man!

sofato5miles · 10/01/2020 01:24

OP, thinks she will be OK, because she wants it to be OK.

I literally cannot believe what I am reading, the cognitive dissonance is so upsetting that my eyes have pricked with tears. This is a true insight into how women convince themselves to stay and be battered and killed by their partners.

AlexaAmbidextra · 10/01/2020 02:21

I was upstairs getting ready for bed when completely by surprise he accosted me in the bathroom, pushing the bloody hand into my face and mouth, forcing me down onto the tiled floor by my head and then standing on the side of my head and rubbing the soul of his shoe against my head so hard that it cut the skin on my lower eye socket/cheek and I had a black eye for a week.

I really really really want to believe that the kids and I are not in any immediate danger.

FreetodowhatIwant. Read the first sentence above. Then read the second sentence above. Can you not see how deluded those two opposing statements are? You and your children are very much in danger. This is a cruel, angry man who wants to hurt you. For goodness sake get out before he has another episode and you end up with much worse than a black eye.

rvby · 10/01/2020 04:43

@Freetodowhatiwant

You're a fool OP. I feel for your children and I hope you wake up before your husband kills you.