Demise of marriage? Feelings turned by one conversation!

[Freetodowhatiwant]

I don’t really know where to start. I have been with DH for almost 20 years and married for almost 10. We had a lot of fun for the 10 years prior to getting married – travelling and plenty of going out. I’ve been with him since age 25 and am now 45. He is 11 years older but this isn’t an issue, he’s very youthful in many ways. We have two children aged 7 and 4.

Our relationship has many positive aspects – when we have time to hang around together we laugh and share the similar interests. There are no significant domestic issues in terms of housework and cooking. He used to do much more than me pre-kids and now I do probably more as I am at home more (work from home). The house is a bit of a mess but this is because of the kids and we both try our best so that’s not a huge issue even though there is the occasional argument about this I think it's normal.

To my friends who’ve moaned about their partners for other reasons (two have DHs who don’t do anything around the house) I have always said that mine and DH’s relationship is 80% good, not perfect but enough to keep us together.

Herein lies the problem though. The 20% bad has been his anger issues. He had had them from the beginning. Most of the males in his family had the same issues. He often gets angry for no reason. Getting ready in the morning is a particular issue. He will shout and stomp around and if the anger is directed at me can sometimes seriously intimidate me. He has never hit me but he has loomed over me many times and his face and body are terrifying. He’s 6ft and I’m 5.5ft so he has a height and physical presence that can scare me. There have been times this has happened in front of the children and the children and I have all been hugging and waiting until it passes. He’s a mental health professional (I know) so there are times when he has been able to keep this under control for a while (taking St John’s Wort helps) but there have been many times when he is angry and I feel like I am treading on egg shells. Sometimes this has been on a daily basis, particularly for a few hours in the morning, and has ruined a good part of the day. He is always sorry afterwards and he knows he is out of order. I am not perfect of course, but I am just focusing on DH’s anger issues. I am by nature, I think, quite a happy person but when he has one of these angry episodes it really plunges my mood.

Here’s the weirdest thing. In January he had two angry mornings in a row, nothing out of the ordinary, and on the second morning something just clicked inside me and I suddenly thought ‘I cant do this for the rest of my life’. My mood plunged and I entered a low depression from which I didn’t emerge for a couple of months and to be honest it is still bubbling under the surface and although I am carrying on with life as normal I am still quite emotional. This is very very unusual for me as I usually brush things off but it was like all the angry episodes over the 19 years we had been together just built up into one homogenous mass that has eaten away at me.

Whilst I have been thinking about an alternative future it has also given me feelings - unrelated to his anger issues - about whether I want to be with him for another 20+ years. It now just all feels like an awful long time. I have told him all this and we have had a couple of conversations about our future. The thing is since telling him how my feelings have changed for him he has kept an incredibly good check on his moods, not perfect but I am not saying I am either. But my low feelings and doubt about whether I can be with him for the rest of my life haven’t changed though and I find myself trawling the boards here trying to find some solution, researching divorce, researching people who have stayed together and not really knowing wtf to do.

It’s like I am in a quiet crisis, carrying on with day to day activities and life. We are abroad for the summer and he has gone back to the UK to work for a couple of weeks and I haven’t really yet missed him. This upsets me because like I said the 80% that was good meant we had fun together. We are lucky enough to have family to babysit and we can often go out. But the fact is I can’t seem to get over the build up of angry moods and a huge part of me feels the pull of freedom seems more and more attractive. I have emotionally checked out of the relationship and I don't know how to get back or if I want to. I can tell he knows this and he is trying his best but it isn’t making a difference at the moment. The thought however of tearing our family apart is also terrifying. I just don’t know what to do.

If you have got this far, well done! Any thoughts would be amazing.

Free, you are in serious danger. He could easily kill you. You HAVE to get out now. We're all telling you this - you need to listen.

And yes, I agree with several pps - your mum should have called the police. I'm shocked that she failed to do that.

Jeesus.... just read the whole thread. How did you explain the black eye away? You know exactly what people will be thinking about this anyway, don’t you? Please understand that if you feel that breaking up with a violent, angry man is your fault at all, this is the result of his gaslighting and emotional abuse.
You can’t allow your children to grow up around someone who treats their mother that way.
You can’t be the mother who shows their children that it is okay to minimize, justify and tolerate this treatment.

This thread is terrifying! You need to get yourself and your kids away from this man. He could have killed you! You really need to get out now, for your sake and your children's sake. Please don't become a domestic violence murder statistic!

My DM wouldn't have rung the police either.

OP, here's a link to a book called Why Does He Do That? about abusers.

He doesn't have anger issues, he's an abuser. Abusers aren't people that are depressed, addicts, alcoholics, poor mental health etc. They are just abusers. They can be both of course, but there are many many different people with poor mental health who manage not to abuse their family. You know an abuser because they don't shout and roar and hit every person they come across, they work and function in society, it's just the wife and children they terrorise. And it's just so they can be king at home. It's not because they can't control themselves, they just choose to behave like that. They choose to frighten you and hurt you. A person with real problems will eventually run into trouble with the wider world, but abusers are cunning.

www.docdroid.net/py03/why-does-he-do-that.pdf

Please don't let your children think it's normal for someone to frighten them.

He doesn't love you and he doesn't love them. He doesn't know what love is. Please please please get your children somewhere they can feel safe.

And be careful about your MN login and any other things you might be writing about him, or any planning you might do. He may not mean to kill you, he might be just trying to hurt you badly enough to really frighten you, and it might happen by "accident".

There's many a woman in the world that didn't realise they were being abused, you're not the first and you won't be the last unfortunately.

It will escalate, it always does. The children must be terrified of him.

I’ll tell you a story; a friend of mine stayed with her abuser for years, eventually her dh started to really hurt her. She stayed because she wanted a financially viable life for her children. They were early teens when she left. They’re in therapy now, one can’t be alone and has developed serious anxiety. They’re very angry with her mum for not leaving. They witnessed some of the violence, she tried to shield them from it. Didn’t work.

I know you know the kids will be affected, you sound like an intelligent person. It takes on average 9 incidents/attempts to leave a violent relationship, often more, (my dh is the designated dv person on his team) Please talk to Women’s Aid and sod his feelings.

Just to echo exactly what others have said, please leave. You and the kids are in danger. He's escalating as he's loosing control and is dangerous. You are caught up in the cycle of abuse (nice, nasty,nice, nasty) and can't see the wood from the trees. As someone who's been there please don't doubt that the children are being horribly affected and it is not a healthy environment. Please call women's aid and work out an escape plan as I don't think he'll let you go without a fight. You can do this, stay strong and please get support xxx

I too am confused about why your mum didnt call teh police.... I would have called the police if I'd seen this happen to a complete stranger in the street..... never mind my daughter.....in front of me and in teh house with my grandchildren...

I'm not sure why you didnt go to the police the next day or at anytime since it sounds like you have got 'frozen'

he could have killed you .......in the next room to your children .... please please leave.....for them if not yourself - fuck the properties, the living x y z place, the houses, pension.....none of that matters when someone stands on your head hard enough to give you a black eye....
get somewhere safe and get legal advice

if he knows he can get away with this whats to stop anything else?

Was your dad abusive to your mum op?

He has crossed a line now, there’s no going back from this. He has physically assaulted you. You would report a stranger if they did that to do, it’s even worse from someone who is supposed to love you. Also don’t stay for the sake of the children, they are only little and it will be much easier to split now. I can only imagine what he could do when they become teenagers and are at their most challenging. If he can’t control his temper now he won’t be able to then.

I completely understand your situation OP. It is very easy for everyone to say LTB, but when you are in the situation, and you have been conditioned over many years to think it acceptable, it is anything but easy to leave.

I know because I am you exempt my story is longer. 25 years together with 13 years of domestic violence. 80% great 20% violent outbursts that happened maybe 3 or 4 times a year. Those outbursts were bad but he was clever enough to never mark my face. It took 13 years to pluck up the courage to report him (after pushing me onto the kitchen floor where I hit my head- in front of our 2 year old daughter) He was arrested. He never layer a finger on me from that day. I stayed !!!!

The remaining 12 years have been 60% ok 40% miserable. No violence, but emotional/financial abuse, moods, awful atmospheres for no reason. Still erupting and shouting and at times throwing things.

Last summer one thing happened and he shouted and screamed at me. I had asked him to help me move a dressing table. He went out later that day and I sent him a text "don't come home" and he didn't.

It is so, so hard to leave. Even when you absolutely know you must, even when you know you should do so for your children, you still think......but!!!

I look at my son, a very shy, lacking in confidence young man with not much self esteem and my daughter who tells me she will never marry or have children.....and I think "I've done that to them"

I am sitting here, in my bed on my day off, the house is untidy and I am on mumsnet. There is no atmosphere, no eggshell walking and no stress, but there are 25 years of regrets which will never leave me.

You can do it OP, if I did, anyone can

Thanks so much for the replies. I was reading them all last night and taking it all on board but wasn't signed in from my phone.

I agree with a lot of what has been said and I am definitely sticking to my guns and separating. I don't THINK I am in any immediate danger with him but of course I do realise that it's hard to ever know this for sure. I am hurrying forward the process of selling the house and hopefully if we make the transition to a new town at the same time as him getting a separate place that will be less disruptive for the kids.

A few of you have asked about my mum. Technically she didn't witness the actual physical part but came running in from the kids room afterwards when I was shouting and crying. I'm guessing the actual bit when he pushed me on the floor and stood on my head (I know) was quite quiet. When she came rushing in I was shouting and told her exactly what had happened, I was in such shock and so was she. I think if we were in England one of us would have probably called the police but we were in a foreign country where we have never called emergency services before and he had immediately calmed down. In retrospect maybe we should have called the police but I wasn't thinking straight and just wanted to not disturb the DCs.

A couple of you have asked if I have come from an abused background. On the contrary, my parents are still happy together after over 55 years and very loving people. I think this has lead to me sometimes choosing men I can 'help', as ridiculous as that sounds. The first boyfriend I lived with was more abusive than this, he was violent every few months. In the end I left him, weirdly it was not because of the violence but because I had felt I had outgrown him. So it appears I have a history of being stupid and forgiving people for violent acts against me.

Actually it was thinking my happy family and parents that started me off thinking I couldn't put up with this for the rest of my life a good year and a half ago. I thought how the fuck have I, from a lovely family where we are usually all smiles and hugs and love, got myself stuck with a man who has angry outbursts and signed up for this for the rest of my life?

I wish I could reply to all of you as everyone of you has said something really valuable. Sorry for those of you who have been through similar with parents or partners. It's good to hear from those of you with similar parenting situations who would have wanted their mothers to leave. Because proportionately it hasn't all been bad, it's just this bit is unforgivable I know.

A couple of you have asked what I said to people about my black eye. Coincidentally my best friend was on holiday for a few days with us over NY and we met up with her the next day. She sensed immediately that we had had an argument the night before and only half way through the day suddenly noticed my eye (we had a long lunch on the beach and I was wearing sunglasses all the time). I briefly told her what had happened but we couldn't really talk. She has been trying to talk to me since but I've made myself a bit unavailable. I might actually show her this thread. The only other people we saw for the next few days are a couple who are going through a lot of arguments themselves and weirdly barely said anything. They asked about the eye and I joked about it being a long story and then they joked about DH having hit me and that was it. If they ever find out what really happened they will be really shocked. I told another couple of friends but they know I don't want to rock the boat. One of them, a male friend, said he would never speak to DH again and is astounded, like most if you are, that I am actually still here and still living a normal life with him rather than calling the police and going ape shit.

I really really really want to believe that the kids and I are not in any immediate danger. He has never kicked off physically to this extent before, although I agree there has been a lot of verbal and emotional abuse. My plan is to keep everything calm and make plans to separate and at the moment he is very sad and doesn't want this to happen but I will definitely make it happen. I haven't had chance to speak to my parents about it as yet but they are usually very supportive and I hope will support me in this.

My brother, annoyingly, in a snatched conversation said something along the lines of 'think of the kids and the lifestyle change' ie I should stay with him. But as you have all rightly said, fuck that shit when I could be in danger. Even BEFORE I felt the danger bit (after the NYE incident) it wasn't the way I wanted to live or the kids to live - even though it wasn't every minute of the day it was definitely treading on eggshells because of his anger - so this has just really been the very hard and quite scary icing on the cake.

Hope this all makes sense. Thanks for all the replies, it is really helpful and means a lot.

PS just seen your post mylifeisruined and I am so pleased you're happy now. It sounds like a similar experience - not bad all the time but when it is bad it was very difficult and upsetting and hard to live with. Well done for getting out.

You sound lovely OP

I hope you get away, and you and your DC enjoy your freedom and peace!

I have got out many times OP and gone back. There is always the danger of going back and thinking.....maybe this time he will change. I always cave in, even my daughter now asks me why and I still truly don't know. This has been our first Christmas apart and he is NC with the DC, their choice.

Please tell your brother he is an idiot. Tell him that of course it is the children you are thinking about, and the change in lifestyle is what is needed for your MH and theirs.

Hi OP, I know that lots of people have posted with great advice and support, but what I wanted to say was that I am most disturbed by the nature of what he did to you.

Grinding your face to the floor with his foot is an act of disgust and hatred - not a simple loss of temper (which would be unacceptable)

I think it says some awful things about how he views you deep down and I really don't think there is any going back from this. He did not lose his temper and lash out, he followed you up the stairs and assaulted you in a deliberate and demeaning way.

Whether he admits it or not, he is clearly harbouring some pretty fucked up feelings towards you and you do not need to live with that.

Yes - seconding what Cracker has just said here. It wasn’t temper. It was a very deliberate assault. Free, I hope you get yourself very soon to what your name suggests you want to be...

It's very good of you to give such a detailed update OP😊
I hope everything works out for the best for you 😊

The most dangerous time is usually around separation.

The children would be happier living in a caravan with you than putting up with this shit. I wish my DM had left my DF. I used to wish he'd die when I was a teen. And he was fine 95% of the time, and I think genuinely just couldn't cope with life so things stressed him out immensely. He also had rows with his own parents, siblings and cousins and struggled at work, it wasn't just us. But small children are easily frightened. I used to wish my uncle was my Dad - not because my uncle was lovely to me but because he was lovely to his own kids. It's awful to be scared of your parent. That being said my mother became the one he took things out on, and she brought us up not to upset him. The whole dynamic was completely fucked up.

The first thing I did as a teen was get into an abusive relationship myself. After that I was in a relationship with an alcoholic/addict and my DH is also an addict. No boundaries, people pleaser, fear of rocking the boat, no self care, all focused on keeping the man in my life happy, at the expense of my own happiness. I have had severe anxiety leading me to severe depression. I've been suicidal. And underneath this I always had a feeling of wanting to go home and knowing that it was completely pointless going to my parents' house. Or even telling them I was suicidal - my DM couldn't bear to admit she did anything wrong in "keeping the family together", so problems were minimised. She has apologised since. Her own mother warned her he wasn't right in the head and that any children would suffer, and I think she just didn't want to admit she was wrong to marry him. Plus he wasn't bad all of the time etc etc etc. A total bastard world be easier in many ways because then you know, rather than unpredictability. My DB married a bully and died young. My other DB has no confidence and was in an abusive relationship. My DSis was the only one who wasn't frightened of DF, she's got an explosive temper herself and I think she just saw it as arguments/fights but she wasn't frightened. But she's still completely unable to stick up for herself with her DH and I've seen her devastation at times when he comes at her with cutting remarks out of nowhere. She also lives somewhere she hates because her DH wants that. And she went through a fairly depressed phase when her DC were young - wishing she'd die rather than thinking of ways to do it herself like I was. None of us siblings are particularly close. I'm slightly afraid of both my DSis and DB as they both snap easily, storm/stomp out of rooms, slam kitchen drawers shut, that kind of thing. And you don't know what's going to set them off. I remember utter confusion and devastation on my nephew's face after being shouted at when he was small.

I'm telling you all this so you know what some of the results of growing up with an angry parent are. Fuck what anyone what thinks, do what's best for your children.

Thankfully my Dad wanted to change, he didn't want to be going around snapping at us or upsetting us. And my DM told him to shape up or ship out. He's dead now and my DM is in a relationship with a lovely man she knew when she was young. It's lovely to see her so happy - but also made me do a lot of grieving when I realised I could have grown up in a happy house with happy adults and how different my life could have been.

I have a degree, I had a decent job before having DS, I come across happy and confident (my old boss was shocked and couldn't believe I had such poor mental health when I had to take months off work).

It's too easy to sweep things under the carpet.

I think FGSJoanWhatsWrongWithYou's post is spot on, so I've highlighted it below:

you said: he is completely mortified and full of regret

What has he done about it? Reported this mental breakdown to his work? Asked them for help? Seen the doctor? Moved out? Spoken to his friends about what he did? What actions has he taken to change himself given he is so full of regret and mortification? and this part:

Has alcohol crossed his lips since he beat you up after drinking? I'd have gone teetotal immediately. Has he?

YOU MUST LEAVE BEFORE IT ESCALATES EVEN FURTHER. Good luck

This is just horrific. I hope this doesn’t sound judgmental as I really don’t mean it to be but you and your Mum don’t seem to realise the enormity of why he did? I honestly think my Mum would kill somebody if she knew they did that to me rather than see me living in the same house as them.

He is obvious very dangerous and you could be at (further) risk of serious harm once he realises you are serious about separating.

I really think you need to speak with the Police and Women’s Aid and get some help.

Thanks for your update this morning . Take care .

My heart goes out to you. You are in danger @Freetodowhatiwant. Really. He has physically hurt you. You can't get more veceral than that. He's put his foot on your head and gave you a black eye ffs. It doesn't matter if the relationship was lovely 99% of the time and the other 1% was this. It only takes 1 time to hurt you. 1 time to give you a lasting injury. 1 time to kill you.

You need to get out and fast, and you need to get therapy immediately. It's clear to my reading your posts that you cannot see right from wrong any more, only grey areas. Whilst the ability to empathise and see nuances is usually a good thing, in this case it could cost you dearly. You no longer have healthy boundries. This behaviour has ground you down to the extent that you tolerate things from him that you would probably never tolerate from a stranger. You don't just need help on the sense that you need to physically get put. You need help to see that you have a problem. The alarm bells are ringing loudly all around you and instead of it jarring you they just seem to be a backround noise.

I agree with @Crackerofdoom. Also, HE GOT YOU ON THE FLOOR. Even if someone pushed me or pushed me down to the floor it would make me livid.

Sometimes it does matter if someone is full of regret about their behaviour, but sometimes it doesn't.
Here's why -
a) Some people are very good liars
b) He might be regretful, but that doesn't mean he won't do it again. Some people regret gambling huge sums of money. It doesn't mean that they won't do it again.

Honestly. It doesn't to me like you would be so much happier without all that hanging over you. Also, I think you need to go to the police. It doesn't matter that this was 8 days ago or whatever. They need to record that it happened and keep and eye on your saftey. Contact Women's Aid too.

• It seems to me like you would be so much happier without all that hanging over you.

Are you in the UK now?

Your very first post stated that from the start of your 20 year relationship “the 20% bad has been his anger issues [emotional abuse]. He had had them from the beginning”

This is not new. He has always abused you. This has already damaged your DC. This latest is an escalation.