Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

WWYD DH touching me when I'm asleep

176 replies

cpjoli · 09/08/2019 16:31

This morning I woke up to my DH touching me intimately. It's not the first time. I just laid there until he rolled over. No sex happened. I got up as I couldn't settle. I have a history of being abused and being attacked which he knows about.
I'm really upset by it.
WWYD?

OP posts:
BobTheDuvet · 12/08/2019 15:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

vixfromthestix · 12/08/2019 15:41

I don't think an explicit boundary needs to be set, consent isn't a given.

I think there is a huge difference between a cuddle/spoon with positive reactions leading to sex and someone going straight in for it and being intimate. No matter the length or type of relationship, unless someone says yes through words or actively encourages it to go further through actions it should stop there.

DBML · 12/08/2019 15:41

Coffee. You have nothing constructive to say to me. Just argumentative shut downs. I’ve even paraphrased my advice for you and you are yet to comment directly on it.

Haffiana · 12/08/2019 15:42

DBML why the fuck don't you just go and start your own thread about your own sodding opinions?

You have utterly hijacked a thread in which an OP was asking for help for her. How many posts about you have you made now?

Coffeeandcherrypie · 12/08/2019 15:45

Well when someone accuses me of lying I will defend myself. That’s not shutting you down.

DBML · 12/08/2019 15:46

Yep, OK.

Opinions not allowed here if different.
Also clearly not allowed to argue one’s opinions.
Seems I’ve missed the post limitation information on a public forum too.
So I’ll fuck off then.

Some posters are vile bullies.

Coffeeandcherrypie · 12/08/2019 15:46

@Haffiana you’re right, I’m going to stop feeding it.

Vasya · 12/08/2019 15:46

You just want to keep going. On and on and on.

I know, I'm so boring aren't I? It would be sooooo much easier for all the poor rapists and rape apologists to just abuse people and apologise for it later if people would stop banging on about consent all the time.

Vasya · 12/08/2019 15:49

Opinions not allowed here if different.
Also clearly not allowed to argue one’s opinions.

So when other people argue for their opinions, you think that means you aren't allowed one. But then... people aren't allowed to argue their opinions? It'll take me a while to work that one out I must admit.

So I’ll fuck off then

Byeeeee

GCAcademic · 12/08/2019 15:58

Also clearly not allowed to argue one’s opinions.
Seems I’ve missed the post limitation information on a public forum too.

Arguing your opinions is what AIBU is for. I'd always understood Relationships to be about advice and support for the OP, not for an opportunity for individuals to me-rail and filibuster. The OP sounds like she needs support but has now left the thread to accusations of "well you're clearly not being sexually abused if you're staying in the marriage" - as if women who are being abused immediately exit their marriages, ffs.

Thornhill58 · 12/08/2019 16:58

@Coffeeandcherrypie I haven't lost an argument at all. Not sure what you are talking about. I'm not sure why you think I'm arguing. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Thornhill58 · 12/08/2019 17:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Quartz2208 · 12/08/2019 17:36

Thornhill legally no consent is never implied unless otherwise stated it is the other way round. You can argue it until you are blue in the face but there is no implied consent

And truly think what you are saying about consent being implied by sharing a bed? Where should that line stop?

I agree though that by sharing a bed you are agreeing that an approach may be made but that is all. If it is rebuffed or the person is asleep and cannot consent it has to stop.

The thing is here two things set it apart - one that she has told him that she doesnt like being touched unexpectedly - that normal agreement that an approach may be made has already been taken away.

Secondly the implication (to me at least) is that it went beyond that. Honestly how would you feel it you woke up to find your partners fingers in your vagina (which is what I get the sense here happened I could be wrong). For me that crosses the line

Vasya · 12/08/2019 17:41

Vasya we are talking about grown people sharing a bed. Consent is implied unless otherwise stated.

I truly cannot even begin to describe how wrong you are about this. These are exactly the excuses rapists and abusers use.

Consent can never be assumed. The default position is not 'she wants it unless she explicitly said no'. The default position is 'she doesn't want it unless she has said yes.'

Do you not see how dangerous your version is? Do you not see how men will use it as an excuse to do whatever they like, because they weren't told no first?

Sharing a bed does not equal consent. How can you say it does?? The act of sharing a bed and any number of sex acts a person could choose to perform are so different from one another, how could agreeing to one possibly be the same as agreeing to the rest?

Your language is so aggressive and incomprehensible to me. Rape apologists? That's an abhorrent term. I judge every situation for what it is.

Rape apologist is the term you use for people whose attitudes justify rape and sexual abuse. That is what's happening when you say things like 'sharing a bed implies consent'. You are on the side of rapists and abusers. You are making excuses for them.

Your views are abhorrent to me. I will use the term that fits them.

I would never make excuses for bad behaviour

And yet you have - by making excuses for OP's husband, who has behaved in an abusive way which causes distress to the OP.

but I also think the tone of this thread isn't helpful.

I agree, but I think the unhelpful posters are the ones telling OP that she has no right to be upset at her husband for touching her without consent because she agreed to share a bed with him / because she's married to him / because she didn't anticipate the manner in which he would abuse her and forbid it in advance.

Telling the OP he is a rapist and an abuser? To leave him? Dear God the world we live in.

What world do you want to live in? A world where women don't get the opportunity to refuse sex acts if they've agreed to share a bed with someone? A world where men can abuse their wives and strangers on the internet tell those wives just to put up with it because it's their fault for not being clear enough? A world where a woman thinks her husband can't abuse her because she is married to him? A world where men feel empowered to rape and abuse because people like you will say 'it's ok, he didn't know she didn't want it. He can just apologise and it will be fine.'

Is that the world you want?

Coffeeandcherrypie · 12/08/2019 17:48

@Thornhill58

we are talking about grown people sharing a bed. Consent is implied unless otherwise stated.

No it isn’t. Please stop making things up and passing it as law. You have no idea who is reading the thread and the damage your posts could be doing.

Everafter1 · 12/08/2019 18:54

@GCAcademic I totally agree with your post. It's what I've been saying all along. There's been a blatant disregard for the OPs position on this thread.

The whole "it's okay for me" argument is irrelevant to the OP & could be applied to anything unreasonable. I get those in relationships where it's their normality are offended that people have a different perspective but at times they've ignored the OP and maybe the high horse has came out a little prematurely.

I've found some of it contradictory. If you believe consent is always assumed, or it is sometimes or just when you feel like it then you'll be in a bit of a predicament if you find yourself not willing to partake when someone else does. It's not a grey area.

Lisa's post was a bit of a face palm, showed a lack of maturity at best.

Consent cannot be given if a person is asleep. I don't know whether to laugh or shake my head when people say otherwise. Also the onus is on the perpetrator to prove there was consent, not the other way about.

@Coffeeandcherrypie @Vasya @Quartz2208 you speak a lot of sense & well done for sticking this one out for the OP.

FlissMumsnet · 12/08/2019 19:50

Hi Everyone, just dropping in to ask that the OP's opinions and feelings are respected. We want the debate to be able to flow freely but that's only possible when people discuss things in a civil way.

Thornhill58 · 12/08/2019 20:47

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Vasya · 12/08/2019 22:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ because it repeats a deleted post. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Quartz2208 · 12/08/2019 22:26

Thornhill if you allow your sons to believe in the concept of implied consent you are not doing them any favours at all.

Inappropriatefemale · 12/08/2019 22:31

Imo this is creepy and I agree with the others that it’s abuse, imagine him doing that and whilst knowing you’ve been abused before, what a cunt, why would you want to be intimate with someone if they were asleep, I suppose I’ve just answered my own question; only sexual deviants want their victims asleep etc, etc.

I’m really sorry this is happening but you should leave him, no amount of talking about it or anything will fix this. Let him know what he is and then kick the cunt out.

Inappropriatefemale · 12/08/2019 22:32

Whether or not the OPs hubby makes the connection to her past abuse or not, then it’s still abuse!Shock

Willow2017 · 12/08/2019 23:45

Consent is implied unless otherwise stated.

What tosh!
Consent to be touched in a sexual manner while you are asleep is never implied in any relationship. Where do.you draw the line?
When you wake up.being raped in your sleep can your partner say "oh but we had sex on Tuesday so you obviously consented to me having sex with you anytime I chose to" ??
Maybe you should check.up that the laws of a man having rights over his wife's body have changed somewhat in.last few years.

Never mind the moral angle that no man worth your time is going to do that to a woman he knows has been abused in the past and is therefore especially vulnerable to unexpected sexual touching. It's not rocket science!

I feel sorry for any woman your sons get together with if you are teaching them that just sharing a bed means a woman hands over all rights to her own body to a man.

Skittlenommer · 13/08/2019 00:11

Firstly, consent is never implied!!!

What’s important is it crossed a boundary for the OP.

I love it when my DH grabs me in the middle of the night. It’s my favourite way to wake up but what works for me won’t work for everyone! Everyone has their own boundaries!

LadyB49 · 13/08/2019 03:48

I agree with DBML.

Swipe left for the next trending thread