WWYD DH touching me when I'm asleep

[cpjoli]

This morning I woke up to my DH touching me intimately. It's not the first time. I just laid there until he rolled over. No sex happened. I got up as I couldn't settle. I have a history of being abused and being attacked which he knows about.
I'm really upset by it.
WWYD?

It surely depends on how aware he is that what he’s doing is unwelcome doesn’t it?

The fact OP is asleep would mean there isn't any really any chance of being able to let him know it's not welcome.
So surely it depends on someone actually being awake and having the ability to partake.

I'm with @DBML too.
OP have you actually discussed boundaries with your DH? Or are you just assuming he should know?

“So surely it depends on someone actually being awake and having the ability to partake.”

That’s why I used myself as an example. At no point when my husband was asleep, was he awake to give consent to me touching him. So I assume consent...because it’s me. How could my husband not want ME touching him.
Until told otherwise, I don’t see my behaviour as abusive. Which is where op’s Husband might be right now.

I think we are actually on the same page, op has to have the conversation, however clearly I have some sympathy for a husband being accused of abuse on mumsnet.

Yeah & that's okay for your relationship. You already know yours is fine with it, he wakes up & partakes. I touch mine all the time, but I know he's comfortable with it. The OP stated they were upset about this happening in theirs.

I think DH needs to be more mindful around this given OPs past with abuse and attacks. There needs to be some sensitivity given.

I've been careful not to accuse anyone of abuse or suggest to leave. I think speaking about boundaries is the first point, we all have our own (OP may have done by 2nd post) if that's crossed again then that's a different matter.

however clearly I have some sympathy for a husband being accused of abuse on mumsnet.

Are you for real ? I thought lie back and think of England disappeared when the 'no rape in marriage' law was abolished.

If the OP was asleep when her husband started touching her intimately, then he did not seek her consent to be touched. No consent was given.

The OP's husband saying he was asleep when he did it is a pathetic excuse.

When he does it again, because he will. Say to him, 'stop touching me.' His response will tell you all you need to know i.e. was you telling him to stop enough to wake him up ? I doubt it as he wasn't asleep. Unless he's going to fake waking up to get out of any blame.

He's not meeting your needs for respect.

@Tooearlyfordecorations

Go back and read all my posts. Then have some common sense.

You have every right to feel upset by this OP. It's not ok to touch someone without their consent, regardless of being married or having had sex before.

The fact that this isn't the only time is worrying. Does he ignore your boundaries in other ways? Take some time to think about it. It's ok to find this unacceptable

First step is to talk to him calmly, not in the bedroom, about boundaries. Tell him his touching you makes you uncomfortable and tell him not to do it again, that you do not give consent to being touched whilst asleep.

Yes I know that should be the default position but as others have said they are okay with being touched when sleeping so make it clear to dh that you are not.

Did you speak to dh about it when it happened before, what was his response? Does he already know your position on this?

Mm
I feel sorry for you @DBML

@Shoxfordian

Why? Do you feel I’m being sexually abused by my husband? Or do you feel sorry that clearly by this threads direction, I must be abusing him? 🤷‍♀️

My comments are common sense. Try reading them.

I totally agree wit @DBML Talks common sense instead of the OMG you can't touch without explicit permission. Different if explicit that it wasn't welcome...she says it is t the first time but has she discussed it with him???.

There is a whole background to this and she sounds like better on her own and having therapy rather than some one who prob loves her and loves being intimate.

Frankly I love my DH touching me like that an waking to it. On occasions I'm not in the mood I just say and we cuddle

OF COURSE he knows OP doesn’t like being touched when she’s asleep, because he is LYING and trying to convince her he was asleep so he can KEEP doing it.

People who already know their partners like being touched whilst asleep are not helping by telling OP it’s fine. It is abuse.

DBML not they are not common sense as they have consent as assumed which it must never be. It can be given that two people are happy to be touched whilst asleep and therefore assumed from that point on
Not only that but the OP clearly states she has a history that he knows about and it makes her feel uncomfortable. A boundary he knows about and is crossing therefore making him abusive
Even if he didn’t he is saying he was asleep and no apologising for it a clear indicator he knows it’s wrong in their relationship
OP I hope you are ok

Op,
If you have told your husband you don't want him to do this and he then does it, then I agree that is profoundly disrespectful/ abusive.

I also agree with many posters here that many people don't mind this kind of touching or even like it. That does not at all mean you need to be ok with it. (Unless I missed it, I don't think anyone has said that). But it does mean that unless you had already told your husband that you don't want that, then I wouldn't consider his actions automatically abusive - they could have been perfectly innocent, based on the mistaken assumption that it was a pleasant way to wake you.

We don't know for sure he was lying about sleeping, - doesn't sound impossible to me, but your instincts count for a lot on this. If he is lying, I think this could be out of embarrassment/ shock at your reaction (not ideal but people often fudge explanations of why they do things when they realize someone is upset with them), or because he knew at the time he shouldn't have done it - which would put us back in the top paragraph scenario.

Totally agree with all of those who suggest having an absolutely clear conversation and then going from there....

Good luck.

Oh and one thing to add is that regardless of his motivations you should feel NO obligation to have any physical contact with him or sleep in the same room with him until (and if) you are totally satisfied by your communication and you feel fully safe with him.... and simply, that you want to.

Your feelings matter, regardless of his motivations....

First of there is a difference between gently trying to wake someone up by intimately touching them and touching them when they are asleep. The former I assume would stop if there was no response the latter does not. It looks here to be the latter

And ffs stop with the idea that you try something to see if consent it given that is a dangerous idea (as is the one that it is ok because x y z happily enjoy it). It is a dangerous slippery slope if consent is ever assumed (and it never should be) sexual boundaries should always be discussed and agreed upon (which presumably in all the happy examples they have been). Her past history should prompt anyone to realise that unexpected touching is a no.
That is common sende

Marie - Op said it was not the first time.

@Quartz2208 I couldn't agree more with your posts. There is a clear difference.
It's a gamble sexually touching someone while their asleep. 50/50 chance whether it will be allowed or not. If someone has a history of being abused common sense would prevail. You wouldn't want to trigger anything for them.

If he said sorry and never did it again maybe I could get passed it. But instead he lied and said he was asleep, which probably also means he intends to keep doing it. Grim. I'd leave him.

Have you told your dh it makes you uncomfortable and to not do it? If it continues it’s abuse. If he stops; then it’s not. He might just be wanting to have sex and hoping he can arouse you. Plenty of couples I’m sure do this in the middle of the night and have sex. We don’t; but we have kids sleeping w us. But I had a bf in the past who like to have sex in middle of the night. If you don’t like it make sure your dh knows this.

It depends on the individual. I remember this happening to a girl i used to know. She would wake up and her DP would be full on having sex with her. She was traumatised.

I agree with everything DBML said

Quartz

For this to be abuse there has to be intent to harm. We don’t know that there is. From the start of my posts I have suggested that OP have that conversation with her DH.

The common sense part that I have talked about is that some couples do touch each other and he may have assumed this was acceptable. Never in my relationship has my DS asked if he can do this to me and never have I asked him. We just do it. Consent is assumed, whether you think that’s right or wrong.
If the OP does not consent, then she needs to tell her husband that and see if it makes a difference. I even suggested separate beds if he really is doing it in his sleep. I have never said she needs to accept this behaviour and I have never told her to get on board.
The danger here is calling it abuse without any robust evidence that it is. Op says it’s happened before, but not that she’s never told him not to do this. OP says he knows of her abuse, but does he know this is a trigger?

You saying ‘of course he does’ is just making an assumption...which you seem not to like unless making the assumption goes in your favour.

This is simple:

1. Establish your boundary by having a conversation
2. See if it makes a difference
3. Act on the outcome

What is not common sense about that?

Or perhaps I should just jump on the bandwagon, scream abuse and tell OP to leave him, when like someone else said, it may just be a guy who is sexually attracted to his own partner.

Have experienced this as part of intimacy between a partner

Then had someone do this & it took me years to recognise it as feeling like being raped. It happened a few times & the last time I turned around with a closed fist & hit out at him. At the time he was upset but he turned out to be predatory.

People who have only experienced the former & not the latter have partners who can read their body signals & you respond accordingly physically, cuddling & spooning, bumping you bum back against him etc... it’s a great way to wake up lazily

What the Op describes may be either but the point is she is not comfortable with it & that is what matters.

I am a freezer by nature have come to learn. It is a natural reaction to freeze during such an uncomfortable situation. As long as the OP & her partner can talk comfortabally this should not be an ongoing issue.

If it is then I would say there may be more sinister intent. Only the OP can know either way

Fondling an abuse victim while they're asleep, how could someone not think that could be a trigger.

Anyway, this thread has taken turn which isn't actually in response to OPs question.

People are arguing from the perspective that they're okay with it in their relationship. That's fine, this post isn't from the perspective of a man who is confused about his actions. It's from the person on the receiving end who has said they're upset, scared & also have already spoke to their husband.

OP you're not comfortable with it, nor do you have to be. My suggestion remains the same & I hope it has been a genuine misunderstanding.