WWYD DH touching me when I'm asleep

[cpjoli]

This morning I woke up to my DH touching me intimately. It's not the first time. I just laid there until he rolled over. No sex happened. I got up as I couldn't settle. I have a history of being abused and being attacked which he knows about.
I'm really upset by it.
WWYD?

Nope no intent to cause harm needed in sexual assault just anything without explicit consent

But are you not concerned that the onus is on saying no to something rather than a positive affirmation it’s ok. So someone has to have something they don’t potentially want happen rather than someone asking.

So I assume consent...because it’s me. How could my husband not want ME touching him.

But you made the point in one of your other posts that you and your dh would be able to say 'not now, hon - I'm not in the mood' or some such. Nobody is up for spontaneous sex or touching 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. But when you're asleep you don't have the option of saying 'no thanks I'm not in the mood', do you? Or at least not until intimate touching is alreafy taking place and wakes you up.

OP -unless your dh genuinely thinks you are happy with this, it is abusive.

Clearly you want her to think she’s being abused and leave her life, which may otherwise be very good?

I’m stunned with how quick people are to accuse these day. I’m out.

Apologies now as I haven’t RTFT

But I have to tell you that several years ago I was waking to find my then ‘D’H attempted to have sex with me. Not spooning sex. Actual, he’s up and over me and about to enter me with his cock.

He also told me he knew nothing and was sound asleep etc.

The last time it happened I had to shout and push him with all my strength to get him to stop.

The next day I told him if it ever happened again I’d call the police and once he’s charged for attempted rape he’d never see his kids again.

Funnily enough, despite never remembering what had happened and it all being subconscious sleep behaviour it never happened again.

2 years later I left him.

To this day he still insists “that wasn’t sexual assault”

DMBL I’m stunned you’re such a rape apologist. Just because you and others enjoy this doesn’t mean the principle of assumed consent is fine. It isn’t. At all. Nobody, married or not, has the right to assume they can touch someone else whenever they want. If others choose to do this and it works in their relationships and they personally have no issue with it, fine. That doesn’t change the fact that consent cannot and should not be assumed as a general principle and just because some other people like this doesn’t mean the OP has to.

There is no necessity for intent to harm when it comes to sexual assault. In fact the vast majority are committed by people known to the victim who probably “assumed consent” because they may have had sex before. But having sex with someone once does not mean they would consent to it again, and being in a relationship with them does not give carte blanche to touch them when they physically can’t respond. The fact he knows she’s been assaulted in the past and still does this is frankly astonishingly gross.

I think it's a shame that people can't read very sensible and honest posts like DBMLs without accusing her of rape apology.

She speaks a lot of sense and at no point has dismissed the potential that it could be something else.

it may just be a guy who is sexually attracted to his own partner.

Which denies the partner the right to say no in your opinion. That's a rapists mentality.

DBML are you a man ?

Those that are saying well my DH does this and I like it, don't you understand that this thread is NOT ABOUT YOU.
The op doesn't like it and now her husband appears to be lying about his wakefulness.
@cpjoli if I were you I'd talk to him and tell him how it makes you feel, try and start the conversation when you're not in bed. When you've told him if he does it again then I would suggest that you reconsider your living arrangements

Each couple should set their own boundaries by discussing what is and is not to happen during intimate moments.
This could apply to all aspects of life together such as who puts the bins out, who cleans up after DC etc.
It is all about personal choice and the agreement of each of the two parties in the relationship.

@DBML spot on! It’s not really as black and white as “abuse LTB” as some couples do this in the waking hours most mornings... normal and consensual to some couples.
Tell him you do not want him to do it (and why if you need to) and then see if he stops.

It is not sensible to think you should have to say no to something rather than giving positive consent. The onus is then on the partner speaking up rather than an agreement. It’s goes against everything the new and much needed coercive control rules go against

The bouquets is right it a partnership boundaries should be discussed and agreed in all aspects of life. Nothing new should be tried without positive affirmation it’s ok.

@Aberhonddu PPs are just trying to relate to it - that’s what the forum is for - they’re trying to express their viewpoint in order that the OP can decide if others feel the same. In some circumstances some of us do feel it’s fine, and perhaps the OP needs to hear this too so she can decide if it’s consensual and wrong or quite natural. Yes she does need to speak to him about it.

What about consent for the sneaky pat on the bum as my husband walks past, or the kiss he puts on my head as he leaves the house. Both of those things would be a sexual offence if a stranger did them to me so clearly the lines of assumed consent ARE different within an intimate relationship.

@AbbeyGail omg that is exactly how it happened with me, except it was a boyfriend had just moved in with & I left a few months later. He too claimed this sleep insomnia, but after I struck out & said this was assault he never did it again...funny that

Honestly this thread is triggering & like the other one on here am stepping back.

People on here say we are so quick to say LTB or scream abuse. But the problem is people in happy content relationships are generally not posting asking for advice on the internet about issues with their partners.

There have been a few of these threads recently about partners being touched in their sleep. People who have that as part of their intimacy in a healthy relationship don’t get how this feels like an assault.

If you were drunk & passed out it means you can’t consent. It feels similar to that have come to believe. If your partner is anything less than absolutely mortified at having made you feel such discomfort, then I believe in my bones they are a predator, or have deep down mysogynistic views - like that is your wife so wives are there for your sexual pleasure. It makes my skin crawl.

@DBML I totally agree with you too as it's something OH and I have always done. If I wake up and he's touching me and I'm up for it I simply just say I'm tired let me sleep and maybe in the morning. I've been quite shocked recently at the amount of posters saying it's abuse if you're not awake and to LTB. If the op has said that she's not comfortable then that's different.

Not up for it

Every who is saying that they do it or a tap on the bum etc are lucky because they have a healthy normal equal relationship where there is mutual love and respect. In that environment of course they are fine.

But when there isnt that and there is control, power inbalance, a sense of ownership those affectionate and intimate moves become something else they become coercive and sinister and something altogether different and something that those who are in a relationship where its not dont understand. Its like comparing apples and pears.

So how do you tell - well prawnsword is right the mere fact that they post on here means that things are not right, things dont feel right and that the control and abuse goes beyond the sexual side first given here

In this post the fact that the OP had a history of being abused and attacked immediately indicates that her boundaries are that any unexpected or unwanted attention are not consented to - something her partner knows and ignores.

Thanks for the replies.
Having been abused, I am very wary of touch in general which he knows.
I have also been raped by a stranger. I did not give my consent in either instance and I did not give consent last week with my husband. Whether I have a relationship with him or not is irrelevant . I did not consent to him touching me.
I went ballistic on friday and drank way to much, then passed out. I was so hurt. And still am. I was going to leave, but have decided to stay for now I think.

It's down to consent, I did not give it.

If it’s that bad you should leave him.

Lisa I tried to say that earlier and got called a rape apologist. So, if it’s that bad, she just leave. Being on your own is better than submitting to repeated sexual abuse, if that’s what op thinks it is.

Lisa1855 your post is awful you are saying women should let their husbands touch their bodies whenever HE feels like it her view be damned that is awful.

DBML please read Lisa1855 post and ask yourself is that the post I want to support - one that gives men rights over a womans body. You clearly have (luckily for you) never been in an abusive relationship to make statements such as if its that bad leave.

Not read all the replies but totally agree with DBML. There is a level of implied consent by the very action of sharing a bed and having an ongoing sexual relationship with a partner. Certainly DP and I wouldn't consider it abuse if we woke up to the other ones sexual advances (however if it was at 3am and one of us is early shift the response may not be favourable).

OP you need to explain to your DH how his actions made you feel and how upset you are. Once he's aware that it's not consentual then he knows not to try to do this again. However in the first instance communication is the key. He is not an abuser in the eyes of the law at this point