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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Family betrayal?

159 replies

MamaBearfor3 · 08/08/2019 22:48

This is my first time on this forum and I am on here purely for support and honest answers from other mums etc on a very distressing subject 😔 I am going to keep this as concise as possible and free from my/my family's personal views and negative feelings as possible, giving just the ones that matter.
I have a wonderful husband and 3 beautiful girls.
In 2011 we found out my husband's uncle/godfather (his mum's brother, I'll refer to him as K later) had sexually abused at least 2 of our girls. We took him to court, he was found guilty, sentenced to 10 months imprisonment, served only 3. The family ostracized him bar one member who is mentally challenged and doesn't comprehend what he did and is easily manipulated.
Turned out this was a family trend so the other brother and father were also ostracized by my husband's immediate family. My MIL chose to not attend their funerals but met K at a niece's funeral.
After this his name came up frequently so my hubby asked her outright if she was speaking to him. The answer was yes and she'd continue to. He said he was angry but she probably couldn't be stopped and she said she understood but wouldn't be.
Our girls were quiet (now 18,14 and 12) but when we got home they were crying, hurt, angry and felt betrayed. I was in the same boat but couldn't get past the numb shock that had set in at her revelation.
The girls said they didn't want to visit Granny anymore. We completely understood. Hubby eventually messaged her and told her how upset her granddaughters were and she said it wasn't her intention. No apology, message, text or call to any one of the girls.
A week passes and hubby gets a message from his elder bro asking what's going on. He calls his bro and is shocked his mum has told him we're using the girls to punish her for speaking to K. My husband blew up! She was telling lies! The girls made their choice. His bro asked how long can you punish him and hubby said my girls deal with this every day, it doesn't go away, put yourself in our shoes. If it were your kids what would you do? Answer...he'd be dead already.
Then he calls his mum. It was lengthy but her points are...
...how long can you punish him?
...I lost time with my other brother and dad but K is dying (from Parkinson's!!! Eh NO!), he's my bro and want to be there for him
...he's been in their house 3 times since the funeral and will be again (!!!)
...the girls have to move on from what happened (!!!)
...she doesn't think she should have to chose
...she understands that if she insists on speaking to and seeing K she won't see any of us again (apparently our girls are their favourites)
...his dad/her husband and their grandfather is supporting her choice
...she insists someone out there will completely understand and support her point of view.

We have spoken to people who mainly have some form of familial/emotional relationship with us and our girls but I feel I need to reach out to an 'impartial' and independent group. The full majority consensus so far is to cut them out our lives, the girls emotional and mental wellbeing comes first and we wholeheartedly agree. Our girls will ALWAYS come first! But if you knew my IN LAWS you'd understand why I am ensuring I have asked a neutral party.

So, since her paedophile brother who abused HER grandchildren has been put first, spoken with and entertained under their sayso, are we right to cut them out for the sake of our girls...
...or are we being unreasonable and should let her do what she wants regardless the effect on our girls and us?

Thank you in advance for reading this, apologies for any distress, upset or offense.

I won't lie. I strongly hope the majority back our choice but will read any objective comments.

OP posts:
MamaBearfor3 · 09/08/2019 00:26

@Kaleela...I'm so sorry you've had such an experience and never had the support or understanding you need. Thank you for your P.O.V.

OP posts:
JaimeBronde · 09/08/2019 00:32

I'm sorry that you & your family are having to go through all of this.
As pps have said you should cut off contact with MiL. I can't quite get my head around about what she is doing.
Another thought, I'm assuming this vile pervert man is still on the sex offenders register? And should have no contact with his victims. I don't think the authorities will take that lightly & if 'K' is still on licence, then he's in big trouble.
I'm also wondering if MiL could also get into trouble with the police as she's technically aiding & abetting an offender.

JaimeBronde · 09/08/2019 00:34

Sorry forgot you wrote that he was sentenced in 2011, but I assume he's still on the SOR?

MamaBearfor3 · 09/08/2019 00:38

@JaimeBronde...
He's on it for 10 years but wasn't sentenced till 2015! He'll be registered till 2025.
Do you know I never even considered that aspect! He's not to be anywhere near the girls but we'd never know when he would be in their house 😳

OP posts:
JaimeBronde · 09/08/2019 00:45

Might be a good idea to speak to the police about this matter. I assume the police would be the ones to contact.

Exhsuatedmuch · 09/08/2019 01:01

Why would anyone agree with her. She's vile to even consider talking to someone who abused her grandchildren. As parents and grandparents you are there protect the children in your care and this is not protecting. She is a disgrace. It's not about what she wants it's about the support you all need and yes your girls will sadly live with this for good as I have. Hidden in my memories for years only to all come flooding back years later and still dealing with it in my forties.

My mother is still with my abuser and my sister still sees our parents even with her kids. My mother new all along what he did and stayed for the house and money, my sister is waiting to inherit it all. People do strange things in these situations and often try to justify why they do.

There is no reason to have anything to do with a child abuser ever.

Cut them off for good and never look back. It's no loss and you will have protected your babies from more hurt.
I feel for you I really do xxx

itswinetime · 09/08/2019 01:12

I think we were keeping social media open to keep an eye on her and to keep avenues of apology open but I think I'm waiting to see honey come from sht 😕*

I think you have hit the nail on the head she isn’t going to apologise and seeing her justify her actions is only damaging you all. If she was to see the error of her ways and be truly sorry she would find a way
To reach out and apologise a letter for example. Remove her let she can justify herself all she wants anyone who believes her bullshit isn’t worth the mental space!

AcrossthePond55 · 09/08/2019 01:19

I would cut her, and anyone who agrees with or excuses her, absolutely DEAD. They would no longer exist for me. I would cut them out of my life like a cancer. And I would never let them back in. Never.

Chances are your MiL thinks that once her brother is dead she'll be able to waltz back into your lives. She needs to understand that her decision is permanent and irrevocable. There will be NO reconciliation.

Longlongsummer · 09/08/2019 01:26

I’d contact the police and maybe if you have a good social worker to get some backup and professional advice too. It’s serious as a communication channel has opened up, as you’ve said, with MIL which connects to his victims. She could be passing on details of their lives.

I would cut her off, in a measured way with professional backup if necessary, and be very cautious about other family members who are connected.

Jux · 09/08/2019 01:34

Gosh, I'm so sorry. I hope you, your dh and your lovely dds get through this.

Of course you should dump her. Whether you can do it keaving a barb in head or not is up to yo. It's a tempting idea isn't it?

If you want to keep an eye on her could your dh and dds block her but you don't?

Aprilmum1 · 09/08/2019 01:48

This is the ultimate betrayal a mother and grandmother could make.

100% agree. So glad you are such strong advocates for your girls.You are doing the right thing.

ZazieTheCat · 09/08/2019 02:01

Flowers for your girls OP, and for everyone on this thread who have suffered at the hands of abusers, or who is supporting those who have suffered.

IScorched earth as Kaleela* says is exactly the right policy here. Total NC with MIL (and any flying monkeys) with immediate effect. No contact in person, by phone or email and block all social media. No negotiation, listen to no pleas, make no exceptions.

As you already know, you are right to back your girls absolutely.

You have to get clear of that absolute chess-pits of attitudes and actions or it may well end up consuming another generation (you also know that already).

When I was younger, I was friends with someone who had been abused as a child by a family member, from a very young age into her teens. She had lots of mental health/emotional/sexual identity issues and was very messed up.

When she told her parents about the abuse, her mother alternated between dismissal/denial and telling her to basically put up and shut up because the relative was financially advantaged, connected and useful to them. Even when abuse of other similar aged people in the family emerged.

The family “solution” was to get the abuser to pay for therapy/private hospital stays during the (regular, probably most years) mental breakdowns their daughter had from early teens onwards. She was heavily, heavily medicated from her early teens. Kept trying to get her mother to believe her, to accept her, to show her some love and compassion. She went to a lot of family therapy sessions to reconcile with her mother, which were just extended torture for her really. She remained in contact with her family and financially dependent on them to an extent, although at a bit of a distance because she wouldn’t fully “move on”.

When she was in her early thirties, it emerged that the next generation in the family were now the targets of her abuser, as well as some of her male cousins, her contemporaries, some a few years older, some a few years younger.

Those cousins had been abused around the same time she was, both directly by the abuser and by being forced by the abuser to “perform” with her and one another for his benefit. She had an extended, intermittent sexual relationship with one of these cousins, let;s call him X, who was older, from when she was ten and he was fourteen until they were both in their twenties. They would meet up in secret (without the knowledge of the abuser or their parents ) to have sex. This continued after both sets of parents learned both of the abuse and the relationship and tried to keep them apart (as it was “dirty”). She described the relationship as “loving, healing and therapeutic”.

The next generation abuse emerged when a younger female relative who was being abused approached her for support and help (as she was known in the family for not totally towing the line). This young girl was being abused both by the original abuser and the cousins, including the one who’d had a long relationship with my friend.

My friend’s response was to tell her young relative that she didn’t believe the abuse was happening, that she didn’t think X especially was the kind of person who would rape someone, that family connections were useful, that she herself had benefited greatly from connections to the people involved (property advice and help with house deposit) so the best thing to do was to keep quiet and not rock the boat. In short, she just repeated her mother’s behaviour.

Luckily the young relative did not leave it there and all hell broke loose.

What I’m trying to say is that in this kind of family, when there are many levels of inter generational abuse, total repudiation of abusers and support for victims is the only way the cycle gets broken, the only way that those abused are able to heal.

I cut ties with my friend when I learned what she’d done. She’d cried to me so many times about how she had suffered, both from the abuse and from her mother’s reaction. And then no sympathy or even belief for the younger relative. I know people often struggle to have insight into their own behaviour, but it just seemed so dangerous.

ClaireElizabethBeuchampFraser · 09/08/2019 02:11

Sorry you might not want to answer- was your MIL responsible for your daughters when they were sexually abused by her brother? Were they in her care?

Your husband was alone with your Uncle as a child- it is possible he was abused by his Uncle with his Mothers knowledge and he blocked it out due to the psychological pain. It sounds very much like the men in her family were part of a paedophile ring and she was very aware of it and even abused herself as a child.

I am concerned that she may have enabled the abuse of your daughters and your husband. I’m sorry I know this is a terrible thought, however it is a very important one to consider- particularly if other children are at risk!

I would kill either of my brothers if they sexually abused either of my children (or potentially my grandchildren)- they would be dead to me. I could never forgive them! Your MIL is very odd in her behaviour.

Do block your girls from your mil and any relative that supports her on social media. Make sure your girls know that they have 100% your backing and that anyone who supports the evil man who abused them will be cut off.

Sunflowers11 · 09/08/2019 02:33

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ClaireElizabethBeuchampFraser · 09/08/2019 02:42

Sunflowers are you serious? You think it’s wrong to make her MIL choose between her vulnerable granddaughters and the sick evil paedophile who abused them? Sorry but that is all kinds of messed up! Of course she should choose! My brothers would be DEAD to me if the abused my children or any other children for that matter! That’s what reasonable people do when someone commits such an evil and depraved act against children they love!

Sunflowers11 · 09/08/2019 02:44

Omg I'm replying whilst reading through your thread and my last post was based off your OP. After reading your latest post and the abuse of your DH as well I am absolutely astonished and appalled. This is just horrendous. Not only have you got to cope with the abuse of your DD, but your husband too.

I would move away from the lot of them. Too much betrayal to recover from something so horrific, I am sorry @MamaBearfor3 Thanks

Sunflowers11 · 09/08/2019 03:00

@ClaireElizabethBeuchampFraser I had only read the initial post when I first replied. I said I was sorry i fully support @MamaBearfor3
Absolutely astonishing the betrayal really and i would move my family away from the whole lot of them.

ClaireElizabethBeuchampFraser · 09/08/2019 03:13

Sunflowers all the information about the OP’s daughters being abused was in the first post- along with information about her MIL choosing her brother the paedophile over her granddaughters (this is after MIL brother was found guilty of sexually abusing her granddaughters and jailed for a pitiful 3 months).

Perhaps you missed that part? You are right though, it is unbelievable betrayal- her poor dd’s and dh must be devastated at the extent of his Mother’s betrayal!

Idontwanttotalk · 09/08/2019 03:14

I think your MIL and BIL are behaving despicably and I would agree that you should just cut contact with the whole family.

My parents cut contact with my DM's parents when my grandad told me he wanted to snog me. My DM has never properly talked or admitted it, but I know that my grandad had sex with her 2 sisters
so I can't believe he hasn't abused my DM. She can't talk about it. This has destroyed her mental health.

When my nan died 11 years after we'd gone NC, my DM took pity on her father and did start to visit him again with her 2nd husband. I've always just hated him for destroying his DCs' childhoods. I'd rather she'd stayed NC but I understand abuse victims sometimes have really skewed views.

My friend was abused by her father and a brother and so I was shocked when visiting her in hospital to meet him visiting her. She behaves as if nothing had ever happened. She is doing well now but in the past has been sectioned frequently and has scars from self-harming.

I think it is a very complicated situation. It is easy to say what we think we'd do in a hypothetical situation. I think I'd want to kill my relatives if they abused my DC. I would have no hesitation in going NC and I'd be disgusted but, at the same time, I would want to try and understand why they did it.

Paedophiles probably can't talk honestly about what drives them to abuse people but how can we stop them if we don't try and understand? If we know there is nothing we can do to stop them, then at least sentencing could be increased, like life with no parole.

I'm so sorry for you, your girls and your husband, OP. Flowers

Ilady · 09/08/2019 03:21

You have had to deal with what happened to your daughter's which was horrible. Your husband may have had something happen when he was a child. Then your mother in law thinks this is normal. She thinks it's fine to be talking and letting her peadofile son be in her house when it possible her grand daughters could be their not to mention other children.
In fact I would tell the police what is happening here. He might have been told he can't go back to his mother's house or that area if he is on the sex offenders register.
No wonder your poor girls are so upset. Then your mil is putting up sly comments on FB which your daughter's can see and read.
You need to block her on FB and go no contact with her. Let all your relatives know just what her peadofile son gets up to so they won't let their children go near her house.

justilou1 · 09/08/2019 03:21

I was going to ask the question about whether MIL was responsible for care of children when they were abused by these evil creatures also. She is vehemently enabling and I encourage you to discuss this with the police, especially if the brother has children as well. (Regardless of sex.) She has drawn her line in the sand. She is dangerous.
Like your DH, I did not report my sexual abuse because my narc mother would have made it all about her. I would have had no privacy, it would have been all about how it affected her and she would have just adored the attention from her acolytes. She died two years ago and this is a repeated topic in my subsequent therapy.

GeorgiaGirl52 · 09/08/2019 03:25

Stand behind your daughters. No contact with abusers or with those who support them.

HaileySherman · 09/08/2019 03:47

Total no contact. Shut out all avenues of contact, direct and indirect (like social media). Your poor girls (and husband). Betrayal is the exact word to describe her transgressions. I'm so sorry.

Sunflowers11 · 09/08/2019 03:47

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MamaBearfor3 · 09/08/2019 05:57

@ClaireElizabethBeuchampFraser...no the girls were not in her care at the time. When this all occurred he was a neighbour and our girls played with his most recent children, 2 boys both ages with my younger two. Those poor boys were encouraged to make it a game 😩 They've cut him out their lives and have a new, wonderful dad and little brother.

MIL told her son (my husband) she supported us through what happened with the girls and reporting him, it was now our turn to support her in her choice to see her brother 😤 Not going to happen!

OP posts: