My crappy childhood has just exploded

[DearTeddyRobinson]

I'm on hols with DH, 2 DCs, and my parents. 6yo DS is being a pain in the arse. DH and I are dealing with it as best we can but it's hard. He's clearly driving my parents mad and they are not hiding it. Lots of snide little comments to him etc. Anyway today there was some kind of contretemps at the pool - I wasn't there.
Next thing I know, DS is running into the house sobbing hysterically, with my mother hot on his heels, my father close behind. They were shouting the odds about him being a spoiled brat, I started to get angry with them and told them to stop bullying him. Yelling escalates, father tells me to leave and go home. While I'm yelling back at my father, I hear a loud slap and a scream. I run back in to where DS is and my mother is pinching his face and leaning down right into his face, hissing something at him. I shout at her to leave him alone, she doesn't and continues to berate him.
I slap her in the face. All hell breaks loose.

So while I was growing up my parents were violent disciplinarians. They would shout at and slap and beat me whenever I transgressed. They used to team up so one could hold me down while the other hit me.
On one occasion I was dragged naked from the shower (I was a teen at this point) and beaten on the bathroom floor.
I never wanted my kids to think this was ok and by and large DH and I agree. But I have serious anger issues and somehow still think that hitting someone is the ultimate resolution (not the kids though).
I think today all of this fucked up mess came boiling over. DH is disgusted with me for hitting a 72 year old woman - understandably. (But not with her for hitting a 6 year old who had a red hand print on his bum).
We are leaving tomorrow, 3 days early.
DH is barely speaking to me. The kids are confused. I am sick with god knows what - rage, guilt, whatever.
Where the fuck do we go from here?

boney very comprehensive. OP is probably asleep, as I should be.
Good night to you all.

@RageAgainstTheVendingMachine . Then why did the OP, knowing her abusive parents and the abuse she suffered from them as a child, invite them along on a family Holiday?
Ultimately, it was her choice to put her son in danger and it was this choice, that maintains this cycle of abuse in her family.
If she turned her back on her parents because of her childhood abuse (or at least did not invite them on holiday) none of the assaults would have taken place.

mrsmuddlepies

You are coming at this from the way of someone who has never experienced abuse from a parent

I am a strong person but it took me till I was 21 to finally go nc with my abusive mother.

My friends mother is an abusive person. Friend is in her 40s and the latest incident was her mother started hitting her (whilst she was driving with her teenage dd and ds in the back of the car) because she said she didn't agree with something

Her friends have told her to.go nc but she won't because I believe for all her dm has done she hasn't crossed the line that only friend will know when her mother has gone too far.

I believe for op her dm hitting her ds and screaming in his face was for op the line that has been crossed

It's all so simple in your world isn't it, mrsmuddypuddles? Must be nice to be so perfect

OP I had an abusive father and I do sympathise with how it affected you, the not being able to see the abuse for what it was, and wanting to normalise the relationship with them and pretend it’s all fine - but it isn’t, and you need to remove these disgusting excuses for parents from your lives immediately. I can understand why you hit your mother and I don’t think she deserves an apology, although as others have said violence is not excusable abusive childhood or not.

Yes at first glance your H’s reaction seems cold and unsupportive but you’ve hit him twice - this is domestic violence. Can you actually imagine anyone saying to a woman ‘I don’t think we can call it domestic violence, he only gave you a couple of slaps’. Seriously. The H might be reacting as he is because he sees another example of you resorting to violence.

That doesn’t exonerate him from the issues caused by his alcoholism of course. There are so many layers of bad stuff happening here I would say your first step is to cut off your parents (it’s better your kids have no grandparents than abusive ones) and get more counselling

With genuine kindness OP, sort this out one thing at a time. You have hit your Dp previously (and I do appreciate where you are coming from). But you have gone on holiday with your parents and he has never walked in your shoes, so does not fully appreciate the lurking anger you have and the fact you go on holiday with them, most likely does not marry with your version of childhood with them that he has heard.

Very simply, nobody has the right to strike your child and to be honest I am shocked that grandparents out of all people have done this. Your DP should get this straightaway. But his version of history that you have given him is confused because if they are the cause of the anger; why are they on holidays with you. You need to talk to him and then you need to pull them up on the treatment of you when you were young.

I have heard several stories like this and sometimes, the grandparents make amends by the time a grandchild comes around, but yours see nothing wrong in what they have done, bring up the incident about the shower, they have obviously never been confronted and back each other up.

Hotel is a great idea. Counselling for you for your abusive childhood and resultant anger issues would be great. As would implementing major boundaries with your parents in future. A calm explanation to your son about the wrongs of violence is necessary.

Forgive yourself. It was "only" a slap and under the extreme provocation of a hugely triggering situation.

Last post! every time I think I'm out, they pull me back in
As boney says (I did say our responses btw - I am aware of my own bias ) the OP potentially still had a desire to please her parents.
There is a desire to play happy families even if you didn't have one, you still hope that people change. And some do - some grandparents are better grandparents than they were parents.
Note I also said low contact/civil communication technique...it takes a whole lot to cut off/go no-contact straight away (baby steps) just as it is very difficult to leave an abusive relationship, whatever sex you are.
Perhaps this event means the OP will not ever leave her dc alone with them again (if their dad was not there), perhaps she thought her husband's presence would be enough for them to play nice/they are different with a witness there/perhaps she has now realized they haven't changed/won't change and this incident leads to permanent non-contact. None of it is black and white.
OP if you do come back, hope you can salvage the holiday and talk things through with your husband. Take care.

@DearTeddyRobinson

(((Hug))))

I’m not sure who I’m more angry with right now - your mother, your husband or some nasty posters - they’re all pretty vile.

Don’t take the shitty posts to heart little keyboard warriors virtue signally & hiding behind their keyboards are best ignored

If I were you I would leave your DH (dickhead husband) with your parents and just take the kids to the hotel.

What your parents did to you as a child was abuse. I’m a 70’s child & ‘do you want a smack?because you’re going the right way to get one’ Was a common reminder I was pushing my luck far too far, but unlike you an actual smack was very rare and it was just that, a smack on my bum (maybe 3 times in my entire childhood) not the cruel beatings your parents ganged up to give you 😢💐

You have done really well not to repeat their behaviour with your own children really well 🌷

Your DH has had issues with alcohol and the attitude/behaviour that comes with that. Slapping him twice does not make you abusive wife

Your mother hurt DS & frightened him, would I fuck be apologising to her for slapping her. She’s lucky you didn’t do to her what she did to you when you were a child

Your DH has behaved very badly too - you were abused as a child and he said it can’t have been that bad (wanker), that you’re exaggerating and should be over it by now - he has crossed a line and personally it would be a deal breaker for me.

I can understand you hoping for a ‘normal family life’ with your parents & children and most people are far more gentle grandparents than they were parents so i understand you not being able to predict this outburst from her

No idea what DS did at the pool & yes 6 yo’s can try your patience, but I’m sure you’d have dealt with it. whikst I wouldn’t have liked it still, I could have even maybe understood if she’d been in sole charge of DS and smacked his bum, but she wasn’t & she didn’t, she was gripping his face and shouting in his face as well as obviously having smacked him pretty hard while you were there. I couldn’t forgive that- the nastiness more than the smack actually.

It would push me over being able to put my childhood behind us if I were you.

As for DS. I’d tell him that granny was totally out of line behaving as she did but she wouldn’t be doing it again!

I’d tell him that I wasn’t sorry for stopping granny shouting at him etc but that I was sorry I had slapped her because that’s not the way to deal with with it

(But quietly - I don’t blame you one bit, it’s the least she deserved )

I don’t think you need anger management, I think you need to cut contact with your shitty parents and really think about your marriage as it seems like he dies a lot of taking and riding a high horse and not much giving or support

Take care 🌷

I don't think I am perfect and I am older so hitting and smacking were much more common when I was a child. I never hit my kids though. My husband's father regularly beat him with a stick as a small boy for misbehaving.
The difference is, with both our sets of parents, we never invited them on holiday with us or put them in a situation of being responsible for our children.
My FIL actually admitted towards the end of his life that he was ashamed of using corporal punishment but honestly thought it was the right way to be a father. It was what the Church taught and he was big on Church. He was born during the First World War. Violence in all areas of life was much more common then.
I think I am aware working with children, that many parents replicate their own childhood experiences, good and bad. As the saying goes, 'I want my children to have the same childhood I had, that of being brought up by my mother.' Often it is women who let their parents have a second go at parenting with their grandchildren. Even those who had unhappy childhoods will entrust their children to the same parents that gave them a hard time as a child.
That is my point, all of this could have been avoided by the OP not letting her parents play Happy Families with her child.
I would put money on a big reconciliation and the whole thing happening again.

I’m not saying hitting is ever justified, but surely you reap what you sow.

Your parents were violent to you growing up and in that split second you lashed out at your mother, it was obviously subconscious learned behaviour.

It is a cycle of abuse, those who justify Happy Families with abusers. It is why Social Services will take children away from a mother who returns again and again to an abusive partner.
Tragically, some sexually abused children will grow into damaged adults and allow the sexual abuse they suffered from, be carried out by the same abusers to their children.
Unless the original poster faces up to own responsibility-and protects her child, it will all happen again.
The cycle of abuse is called that for a reason.

It's strange how many think OP should have just waited until GM was finished hurting her Son to avoid behaving in a socially unacceptable way. That's not the moral high ground you think it is.

It's not surprising that OP has lashed out at the people she cares for as that is common when children are taught violence by violent parents, she is in therapy because she doesn't accept it as normal and is dealing with her demons

Ops partner wasn't tied up and dragged on holiday suggesting he felt the GPs were safe in their old age as well. The accusatory DV/safeguarding lectures are nothing but sanctimonious horn blowing and missing the point spectacularly.
The clue is in the title of the thread

She is not the villain of this piece

I think there are a couple of MRAs on this post trying to derail the thread by deliberately focusing on the DH and not the interaction with OP’s parents who clearly abused her. The MRAs are trying to stick the boot in and manufacture outrage to hurt the OP even more.

The OP’s father and mother are the genesis of this dysfunction and acknowledging then addressing that can help her move forward.

Disclaimer here- all violence is wrong. Throwing a glass is unforgivable.

The OP stated that she has been for anger counselling following the instances that she hit her husband. She also stated that her counsellor stated that her reaction to her husband was justified. That to me suggests there may have been an element of self defence due to abusive behaviour from her DH.If this is the case then coupled with the OP’s justified reaction to her child being abused, I fail to see how the OP is labelled the abuser.

OP is clearly a victim of horrendous abuse by her parents, her husbands reaction has me very concerned that the OP may also be in an abusive relationship with her husband.

OP is your husband psychologically, verbally or physically abusive towards you?

psychcentral.com/blog/21-warning-signs-of-an-emotionally-abusive-relationship/

m.facebook.com/notes/rebecca-cummings/abuser-profiles-from-why-does-he-do-that-by-lundy-bancroft/480862655302912/

It is very common for children of abusive parents to end up in relationships with abusive men/ women. Please have a think about your relationship and how you are being treated.

You are not a monster! Your parents are monsters and you need to cut them out of your life completely! Please do talk to your dc and tell him that
1- his behaviour was wrong,
2- no matter how he behaves it is not ok that his grandmother chased him, slapped him and physically and verbally abused him. Tell him that when you were a little girl, your parents hurt you badly and when you saw your Mum hurting him and she refused to stop hurting him, you reacted and did the only thing you could think of to make her stop.

3- tell him that hitting is always wrong, no matter what age we are, the only time it is ok is if you are very scared and have to defend yourself or someone else from someone who is hurting or trying to hurt him.

1. Tell him that you are so sorry that your Mother hurt him. Tell him that his grandparents will never ever get the chance to hurt him again. If you are going NC then make sure your ds knows that this is NOT his fault, tell him that seeing your Mum hurt him, reminded you of all the times they hurt you when you were little. Tell him that you have realised that they are not nice or safe people and you don’t want them to be around either of you!

OP I honestly wish I could give you a hug! What an awful day for you and your ds! You did not deserve to be beaten as a child and you were full within your rights to slap your Mother to stop her from abusing your baby! You didn’t just protect your ds, you stood up for the little girl who was treated so cruelly all those years ago!

Please do seek counselling, to help you process everything that has happened today and in your past.

@mrsmuddlepies

Did the OP 'force' the family to go on holiday with her abusive parents?

I have read all of her posts three times now, and can't find any where she says she forced anyone to spend time with her parents.

There is a post where she says she is still looking for their approval at 44. This is absolutely normal for someone who has been abused as a child, but doesn't constitute forcing the family to go on holiday.

Good lord this thread has blown up overnight.
Just to clarify a few things:
No one was 'forced' to come on holidays.
Years ago (before we were married) I threw the contents of a glass of water at DH. On two subsequent occasions I twatted him feebly on the arm. No, no more acceptable but not as Rambo as some posters have inferred.
I did not believe my parents would ever hit my kids. Genuinely I thought all of that was behind them as far as the grandchildren were concerned. So not for one moment did I think my kids were in danger.
I clearly know differently now.

I'm aware of the myriad issues that need to be unpicked here and I've spent some time last night looking up anger management courses. There is also a branch of Mind near where I live apparently who might be able to point me in the right direction.

I know, 100%, how horribly wrong and disgusting it is to hit someone of any age. Believe me I know. Which I think is part of why I feel so sick at myself. But I'd be lying if there wasn't a part of me which thinks, that was a fucking long time coming, when I relive the moment I slapped my mother.
I'm pretty sure she doesn't lie awake at night feeling bad for hitting me. With her leather gloves on for extra sting, or with a bendy stick from the hedge behind the kitchen door which I had to choose myself, for example.

Genuinely, thank you all for your responses. I need to read the good, the bad, and the ugly - my own understanding of these things is so fucked up. It's like I 'know' on an intellectual level what is ok, but then my subconscious seems to contradict me.
I will not try to justify or excuse any of my behaviour and I will try with all my might to get the therapy or closure I need to have a healthy functional relationship with DH and the kids.
One poster mentioned what about when the kids are teens and winding you up, you know that is the incentive I need to NOT turn into my parents. It's easy when they're small and cute, maybe not when they're big and hormonal. I really want all this to stop here.

So thank you all again.

Oh sorry I forgot to say, no DH has not been violent. One of the times I hit him was after he'd been out drinking and not come home. I was frantic, DS was a baby, and I had to go and pick DH up from his brothers house , when he eventually surfaced and let me know he was alive. I was livid and terrified, and he laughed and minimised till I just lost it. Like how could he not know what a big deal this was?? So no, it wasn't exactly, you finished the milk and put it back in the fridge you bastard, thump.

OP, have you ever smacked your own children? What did your DS do to enrage your parents so much? Has your DH smacked your children before?
It all sounds very messed up. You need to reduce contact with your parents from now on.
You need to return to counselling.
Your DS needs to see you apologise to your dm for hitting her. She may well not think she needs to apologise to him for hitting him, you can't control that I'm afraid. Your DS needs to know that any violence is wrong. Even though most parents would have done the same in the situation, a child cannot compute what has happened and will just think it's ok to use violence to sort things out.

Soontobe, have you read the OP's original post? It's pretty obvious that her parents are people who resort to violence habitually, the child doesn't have to have done anything to "enrage" them. And, even if he has, an adult chasing after a distressed child, hitting and pinching him and hissing in his face is completely unacceptable no matter what he had done.

And slapping to prevent further violence against a child isn't automatically wrong.

I know this may come across as ruthless but I think for the sake of your 6 year old you need to cut ties with your parents or at the very least minimise contact. They sound like horrible people.
I dont understandable why your DH is mad at you? He knew what you went through as a child, he's showing very little sympathy and understanding.
Your parents have no one to blame but themselves that you slapped your mother. You were taught that violence in the answer from a very young age.
I'm sorry this happend to you OP, I hope you recieve the support you need.

Well, I think your reactions have been 100% normal human reactions, to the GPS and your 'd'h.
It sounds like your 'anger' issues are just how people react when pushed too far, for too long. Your husband sounds like a fucking douche, and I wonder if your rage would evaporate once you freed yourself from him, and never spoke to your shitty parents again.

@DearTeddyRobinson
You sound extremely self-aware, and I completely concur with this 'It's like I 'know' on an intellectual level what is ok, but then my subconscious seems to contradict me'

Your parents were monsters and they clearly still are monsters, I can relate to that feeling of 'you had it coming' I do not and will never condone violence and given the type of people that your parents are I would worry about them suing me if I did assault them
I regret not being able to stand up to my parents when they were young enough to withstand it but they trained me to be submissive and to accept their word as law and it takes a long time to break through that training

I disagree that your DS needs to see you apologise to your 'D'M. He needs to hear from you that hitting people is wrong, and you shouldn't have done it. He also needs to know that you will, in future, protect him from his grandparents but that you won't resort to violence to do so.

I agree that your mother had it coming - 70 year old woman or not - her age doesn't give her a free pass. Sometimes lashing out instinctively against an abuser isn't the wrong thing to do.