My crappy childhood has just exploded

[DearTeddyRobinson]

I'm on hols with DH, 2 DCs, and my parents. 6yo DS is being a pain in the arse. DH and I are dealing with it as best we can but it's hard. He's clearly driving my parents mad and they are not hiding it. Lots of snide little comments to him etc. Anyway today there was some kind of contretemps at the pool - I wasn't there.
Next thing I know, DS is running into the house sobbing hysterically, with my mother hot on his heels, my father close behind. They were shouting the odds about him being a spoiled brat, I started to get angry with them and told them to stop bullying him. Yelling escalates, father tells me to leave and go home. While I'm yelling back at my father, I hear a loud slap and a scream. I run back in to where DS is and my mother is pinching his face and leaning down right into his face, hissing something at him. I shout at her to leave him alone, she doesn't and continues to berate him.
I slap her in the face. All hell breaks loose.

So while I was growing up my parents were violent disciplinarians. They would shout at and slap and beat me whenever I transgressed. They used to team up so one could hold me down while the other hit me.
On one occasion I was dragged naked from the shower (I was a teen at this point) and beaten on the bathroom floor.
I never wanted my kids to think this was ok and by and large DH and I agree. But I have serious anger issues and somehow still think that hitting someone is the ultimate resolution (not the kids though).
I think today all of this fucked up mess came boiling over. DH is disgusted with me for hitting a 72 year old woman - understandably. (But not with her for hitting a 6 year old who had a red hand print on his bum).
We are leaving tomorrow, 3 days early.
DH is barely speaking to me. The kids are confused. I am sick with god knows what - rage, guilt, whatever.
Where the fuck do we go from here?

OP thinking of you and wishing you tell. Glad you are back at work. Sometimes it is the best place to be!

Why are you still in contact with them? I cut my family off, I could never expose them to their toxicity (violent also). I dont mean that in a judgemental way, just a genuine question. You dont need to keep them around.
I'd have reacted the same if someone did that to my child, even though I know it shows the wrong idea to the child I just couldnt cope if I saw someone treat them that way. Then again I have the same mental scars as you so perhaps we are both wrong.
Hugs x

RuffleCrow whilst I understand the wish to avoid physical confrontation, I don't think that in these circumstances waiting for police to turn up is a reasonable expectation.

This was effective, proportionate defence of a child who had been struck by an adult with a known history of serious child abuse - after she had been told to stop and refused to do so.

The courage the OP had to physically intervene to protect her child when she could so easily have been intimidated by her former abuser is amazing. I think that it shows that she has begun to heal from the abuse she suffered, because a child overpowered by two adults and assaulted could easily be frozen by learned helplessness in the situation, or have gone into a blind rage with the "fight" part of fight/flight/freeze. But she didn't. She used the force necessary to stop the attack on her son and no more.

She didn't teach her child the wrong thing at all. It is ok to use proportionate force in self defense or in defense of the vulnerable.

I suppose that would depend on if you are the one being hit.
Well duh. Yes, as I said when I have been hit by a man it was very different to being hit by a woman. I can handle myself against a woman. A man-even a weak one- can usually fight off a woman.
The sense of fear and powerlessness is different. I have only hit someone once in my life-it was a woman (self defence) I never hit my abusive ex because I feared he would then kill me. HTH.

I am the child of a narcissistic, abusive, manipulative mother. I see a lot of myself in your posts, my mum died in March this year and honestly it’s mostly been a relief, mainly because I don’t have to worry about her having any influence in my children’s lives anymore (one is too young to even remember her).

The one thing that stands out to me from your posts is the way you talk about your ds. Everyone seems very angry with him a lot of the time. He sounds very stressed. What’s going on there? I ask because my son has autism and overreacting to an alarm is something he would do because the noise would really upset him. I’m not suggesting your ds has autism at all, I’m just saying sometimes children “act out” as people perceive it in response to stress or other issues. Perhaps he’s picking up on what seems like a lot of anger in the family dynamic?

I think you can treat this as the start of a new life for you. You don’t have to see them again, no one (dh included) ever, ever hits your ds again. You do not have to be moulded by your past.

HepzibahGreen

The sense of fear and powerlessness is different.

How would you know if you have never experienced it from the other side? HTH.

What are you talking about?? I have experienced it from both sides I just said that. Being hit by a woman. Being hit by a man. What other sides are there, seriously?

@DearTeddyRobinson - someone here with similar issues and suffering the same FOG:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3661478-DM-screamed-at-my-DS-and-made-him-cry-on-holiday?watched=1&msgid=89192943#89192943

HepzibahGreen

You have never suffered domestic violence as a man, yet you pretend to understand what we have gone through.

It is a shame as the feelings of fear, helplessness, undermining of self belief, being separated from friends and family. even the lies told, manipulation and gaslighting are all the same, yet you cannot bring yourself to see that.

You are stuck on the single thought that a woman doesn't hit as hard as a man so it must be different.

But this now risks derailing the OP's thread.

Does it boney...?
OK well wouldn't want to do that would we? Pmsl

Well done on getting that appointment- I wouldn’t bother contacting your parents again and definitely not to apologise! Your H sounds a prize dick too.

So while I was growing up my parents were violent disciplinarians

No they weren't. They were child abusers. They still are. Get your child away from them, stay away from them.

Your dh needs to wake up. His child was being abused, this is no time to defend a child abuser.

@DearTeddyRobinson has your mum even said sorry yet or attempted any form of an apology for smacking your son?

everyone fucking knows there is a difference between a woman hitting a man and a man hitting a woman. And to say it's the same is utter rubbish.

Please don't say such fucking shit, there is no damn difference. How dare you try and justify abusive behaviour. Psychological, emotional impact is severe, it's not as simple as oh a woman cannot hit as hard.

You are disgusting for that comment. Vile. This is why so many men do not report abuse.

@Fairylea thank you, poor DS seems to be getting forgotten! He has always been very sensitive to noise, a fire alarm at the leisure centre when he was 4 absolutely terrified him. He also finds loud groups of people very stressful and can act out. I have considered ASD but I don't think these are anything other than behavioural quirks. He is a very sensitive child, and I think he picks up on my mother's dislike of him.

@dillusionaldog no. She won't even consider that she was in the wrong. Children must be terrorised to show them who's boss.

Children must be terrorised to show them who's boss. Yep, that's my duo's ethos too although they'd put it as 'you can't lose the run of them'. Smacking, gaslighting, threats - absolute control. No encouragement or explanation. 'I'll give you something to cry about if you don't stop crying' etc

It wasn't difficult for me to be a better parent 🤣

Teddy this is a really distressing read. I hope you're able to move forward with the counselling, for your own sake.

What struck me way upthread was a poster saying how distressing it was for your DH to see you slapping your DM.

Yet, they presume it was somehow acceptable for an adult to not be distressed with seeing a young child being attacked by an adult?

The biggest let down here is your DH. Your parents have shown that, regardless of any religious facade of respectability, they are toxic and ageing doesn't dilute that. They are acting in true character and I would be considering total NC. Your sister (and your parents) still function on the golden child dynamic, you being the difficult, unruly one - so this is always going to be YOU attacking THEM and living up to all their expectations. I'd be considering your DS a major let down as well and thinking of NC.

You're DH has fallen into the dynamic of seeing you as the problem. I suspect he's totally focused on their wealth and when you mentioned inheritance, I thought "bingo". He doesn't care about your emotional welfare at all. I would feel particularly betrayed by his lack of support. I'm
not condoning the slap, but I understand it. Totally.

I actually wouldn't show him this thread - he will undoubtedly focus on those posters saying that you're in the wrong and that his emotions should be considered.

Sending strength OP - I think, I'm your shoes, I'd be walking away from him as well. Given that he's banking on their money in future and willing to ignore their abusive behaviour.

Those asking why op still sees them, holidays with them...obviously do not understand the dynamics of family abuse. It's akin to asking "why didn't she leave" of DV victims.

The op was raised to believe she was being "punished" and that she was punished because she did wrong.

As an adult you do not think that your child will need to be "punished" by your parents, because, well, that's not their job.

Conditioning someone to think they did wrong is a lifelong feat. Op still thinks she was in the wrong as a child, she doesn't see her childhood as abusive. Because her parents told her that! Trying to unpack 18+ yrs of being told that is hard to let go of. Letting go of damaging conditioning is not easy, and that is why op holidayed with them.

She did not subject her son to abuse, the older woman (will NOT call her a grandmother, she doesn't deserve the title) did. Yes, the slap wasn't good, however it was in defense of her son at a time when NOTHING else was working. The woman wasn't listening when op tried to reason, how much more should op have let her son experience before stepping in? To not act would have damaged her relationship with her son.

I cut contact with my mum when I was 18 because of emotional abuse. She always told me I was worthless. I still, almost 30yrs on cannot get that out of my head, no matter what I do/others do/say.

Do not underestimate the power of conditioning.

To be completely honest if someone had just slapped my child and was holding their face in a pinching grasp I would slap them too, and I wouldn't feel bad about it either.
Any parent who treats their DC like that should expect that at some point when that child is as big as them, they might well strike back if they attack them. Often those parents stop attacking for that reason once the child is big enough to physically defend itself. So she attacked your child instead and you reacted in the way she had taught you.
The biggest problem here in my opinion is that your DH isn't supporting you.

Oh, and I completely understand why you have tried to maintain a normal relationship with them, it's a normal reaction and not something you should feel bad about.
I hope counselling works for you, if the first counsellor you see doesn't work, don't give up. Try a different one. I was lucky, the first counsellor I saw was excellent and we worked well together but sometimes it takes a few goes to find the right 'fit'.

Oh God @StaplesCorner that is chilling. I was the same as a child/teenager, never smoked, drank, went out, was teased for being a swot and doing well in exams. Naturally I never did as well as my sister though. But if I opened my mouth to argue with my parents then all fucking hell broke loose. I hope you can work through all the issues you need to

Also the Drama of the Gifted Child is a brilliant brilliant book by Alice Miller.

Anything by Alice Miller is worth reading. She is incredibly insightful.

@StaplesCorner sorry I just realised it wasn't your thread