My crappy childhood has just exploded

[DearTeddyRobinson]

I'm on hols with DH, 2 DCs, and my parents. 6yo DS is being a pain in the arse. DH and I are dealing with it as best we can but it's hard. He's clearly driving my parents mad and they are not hiding it. Lots of snide little comments to him etc. Anyway today there was some kind of contretemps at the pool - I wasn't there.
Next thing I know, DS is running into the house sobbing hysterically, with my mother hot on his heels, my father close behind. They were shouting the odds about him being a spoiled brat, I started to get angry with them and told them to stop bullying him. Yelling escalates, father tells me to leave and go home. While I'm yelling back at my father, I hear a loud slap and a scream. I run back in to where DS is and my mother is pinching his face and leaning down right into his face, hissing something at him. I shout at her to leave him alone, she doesn't and continues to berate him.
I slap her in the face. All hell breaks loose.

So while I was growing up my parents were violent disciplinarians. They would shout at and slap and beat me whenever I transgressed. They used to team up so one could hold me down while the other hit me.
On one occasion I was dragged naked from the shower (I was a teen at this point) and beaten on the bathroom floor.
I never wanted my kids to think this was ok and by and large DH and I agree. But I have serious anger issues and somehow still think that hitting someone is the ultimate resolution (not the kids though).
I think today all of this fucked up mess came boiling over. DH is disgusted with me for hitting a 72 year old woman - understandably. (But not with her for hitting a 6 year old who had a red hand print on his bum).
We are leaving tomorrow, 3 days early.
DH is barely speaking to me. The kids are confused. I am sick with god knows what - rage, guilt, whatever.
Where the fuck do we go from here?

Your husband sounds like another one you may wish to go NC with.

I’m putting this obscenely bluntly but beware of continuing a relationship when you know it’s got no future as you’ve made your choices based on the faulty blueprint your parents gave you.

Unlike the model they have shown you, love does not hit, hiss, pinch, apportion blame, slopes it shoulders, or snarls; it does not punish and it is not cruel.

I think this may be stage 1 of the scales falling from your eyes and you realising you (and your children) deserve better.

You’ve done an excellent job of suppressing an shitty childhood and you’ve repeatedly that pattern in your marriage.

As shitty as the situation is, I think it has been a wake up call that there is a lot of suppressing and not a lot of acknowledging and healing going on. This is an opportunity to stop repeating terrible dynamics.

Maybe you and your husband could get some counselling to get past this particular situation? The counsellor could maybe help him understand what went on in your childhood and why it reared its head in the way it did?

Why in the name of God would you go on holiday with these people? And for the record I'd have probably murdered my mother if she ever did this to my son, slapping wouldn't be the half of it.
Learn a lesson from this and separate them from your family they are violent abusers.
As for your husband and other people, it's often extremely difficult for people to cope with abuse issues and they carry on as if nothing has happened.
I told family members about my childhood sexual abuse after years of suffering in silence and the next thing I know they are all enjoying a nice evening meal together with photographs all over facebook.
They have been totally unable to accept what I said and have buried the information.
Meanwhile I as the abused have been cut off.
This happens a lot.
You and your husband need to go to counselling as a matter of urgency to sort this.

I really don’t like the sound of your husband. His doesn’t understand the difference between punishment and losing self control.
Pinching a little bits face is not a punishment, it’s rage and fury.
He doesn’t understand what you went through as a child.
He doesn’t like how you (in his mind) have inconvenienced him for the end of the holiday.
I imagine he doesn’t understand the trauma he caused you re his drinking.

Please don’t let him convince you to feel bad about yourself.

Would you be happier and healthier alone with your children, or do you think you’d be happier to stay with him?

@Davespecifico I agree. Even though the husband was raised in a supposedly non-violent family, it seems like psychology and manipulation may have been their weapon. The husband sounds like a nasty one who wants to keep @DearTeddyRobinson under his thumb.

I am very reluctant to think of myself as a victim for some reason. It feels weak, like they have 'won'

Scary isn't it? it is really painful (not weak but a similar feeling) to be confronted by the truth that you were a child and you were defenceless and you deserved a Mum who would step in and stop your Dad from hurting you rather then Two parents who abused and hurt you.

We tell ourselves it wasn't that bad and that we were somehow 'different' to other children, we weren't as vulnerable or frightened as other children would be.
You don't want to see yourself as the victim ....but you were a child at the mercy of abusive parents and watching your son being treated like that and knowing he is a child, vulnerable, helpless (even when he is playing up) and as dependent on adults as all children are makes the cognitive dissonance involved in minimising and denying that you were a victim of their abuse yourself even harder.

Denial does the job quite nicely in terms of stopping you feeling shit until your denial get's a massive crack in it and all the shit it was hiding starts leaking out.

Grabbing someone by the face is an extremely threatening humiliating and dominating act, it also kills two birds with one stone, causes fear and humiliation in the child and anger and fury in the child's mother. It was an attack on both of you.

Can you imagine what would happen if she did this to an adult.

I know that for me The tipping point with my parents came when I saw thier cruel and callous treatment of my children, I could then no longer explain away or minimise their treatment of me.
As said... don't mess with Mama Bear 🐻

Your husband said that you 'couldn't get your head round' how far across the line you'd gone. Or words to that effect.

He can't get his head around the fact that these people severely abused you as a child and teenager. Maybe that's partly because you are only just starting to acknowledge this yourself. The behaviour you described that they inflicted on you is utterly horrific. But although you know and have said what they did, you didn't think of it as abuse, and say that your sister was the 'good' one which implies you thought you were the 'bad' one. So you also hadn't fully got your head round this fact - your parents abused you horribly. This incident is a consequence of that.

I understand you have craved their approval. I understand you wanted your children to have grandparents. BUT - not these grandparents. They were not good enough as parents to you, not by a long chalk. Their approval is never, ever, ever going to happen. So do not waste your energy on that. They are vicious nasty people. And they have just shown you once and for all that it is of absolutely no benefit to you or your dcs to have these people in their lives. I understand that you want your dcs to just have a normal family with gps, but that is not the reality. It is your absolute duty to protect your dcs from their harm.

Your intense anger issues are a direct result of being totally powerless in the face of this hideous childhood abuse. And yes, you need to go and seek help to sort all this, proper psychotherapy. Not only how to manage your anger, but also to acknowledge fully the abuse you have suffered and how to protect yourself and your dc from your twisted and cruel parents. And somewhere in there, your husband needs to be educated and brought up to speed. If he stays on the side of the abusers after it's explained fully to him, then you'll be able to make a decision about whether he is a suitable life partner for you.

You have done well so far to survive this, to break the cycle of abusing less powerful people. But now this is the catalyst for you to get some serious professional help.

Everyone will be outraged by the slap to your mother of course because violence is wrong, shocking and not the answer. Hopefully though the result will be a total breakdown of your relationship with them. Your sister's 'golden child' position is what makes her side with them, otherwise that position is threatened and that feels unsafe for her. Horrible dynamics, but true.

Your own violence is when your own 'child' (the abused girl you were) is triggered and comes to the fore. Only that horribly abused girl is now in an adult body and capable of fighting back!

I know you feel awful about what happened and your husband is trying to make sure you feel awful too, but think how you would feel about yourself if you had allowed her to continue terrifying, terrorising and violently abusing your son. Even worse. Your mothering instincts are in very good shape. Which is more than can be said for your mother.

That is 40 years of justified fury, hurt and defences rising up and taking over. Your fucking horrible mother caused this. Obviously the violence is unacceptable. But that's one slap versus teaming up and dragging a naked teenager (their own child) out of the shower to be held down and beaten, and all that other violence that came from them. So yes it wasn't ideal, but my god she was already in the process of carrying out an assault herself! And she wouldn't be stopped.

Best of luck

DearTeddyRobinson I think growing up you were the scapegoat in your family.

Your sisters response is more to do with keeping herself safe.
If you were out of the picture then your parents would have to have another scapegoat and she would be it.

I think you have taken on the role of scapegoat and married someone deep down who also has to have a scapegoat.
Everything is your fault if it goes wrong.

Going out on a limb but does your husband make any decisions about anything? Or if stuff goes wrong does he turn stuff around and find a reason it is yours or ds's fault.

Even down to missing a turning when he is driving because you or ds was distracting him.

Remember you can only be perfect if you don't do anything

I worry for the future of your children.
I think to a certain extent your dh is cut from the same cloth as your parents

Whose idea was it to come away with your parents? I can't say I'd be desperate to go away with my in laws, and I know DH would feel the same way about my parents. So although I think your DH is being awful to you, I wonder if it's because he's furious to be in this situation in the first place (eg if he didn't really want to go on holiday with your parents, and you persuaded him) so feels that anything that goes wrong on this holiday is on some level your fault?

Not saying that excuses him. He should be supporting you and your son, not your parents. But it maybe partly explains his anger against you?

I was telling dh about this thread: the advice to think of yourself as a survivor , not as a victim, really resonated with him.

He reminded me that he is currently dipping regularly into a book by Pete Walker, called "Complex PTSD: from surviving to thriving" which he has found really helpful.

He sent me the following to post up on this thread (after he found, by accident, a link to the whole book - he was actually looking for the intro):

The real thing about this book is that it is written by someone who very much appears to have ‘been there’

The empathy exudes from it and perhaps it is something that could/should be read by a partner who does not understand or empathise.

https://the-eye.eu/public/Psychedelics/Psychedelic%20Praxis%20Library%203.0/Collections%20by%20Subject/Neurodiversity%20%26%20Traumacentric%20Therapy/PTSD%20%26%20Dissociation/2013%20-%20Pete%20Walker%20-%20Complex%20PTSD%20-%20From%20Surviving%20to%20Thriving.pdf

The book is available in hard copy for about £10 and Kindle for £7 (dh has both as he finds it so useful).

There is also a website (which is what he came across first) with lots of articles that you can dip into www.pete-walker.com He says that it really helps to reassure you that "It's not just you" ....more than that, there is lots of really useful help.

He says, if nothing else read the introduction to the book - and then you can go and explore other areas on the website.

If it were me I wouldn’t want your parents round your children full stop. They sound borderline evil really.
I would also be deeply hurt by the lack of support from your OH. You need to make him aware of the details of your childhood if he isn’t already.
Honestly I would not want to see them again after this. Also go home now.

I’m putting this obscenely bluntly but beware of continuing a relationship when you know it’s got no future as you’ve made your choices based on the faulty blueprint your parents gave you.

Unlike the model they have shown you, love does not hit, hiss, pinch, apportion blame, slopes it shoulders, or snarls; it does not punish and it is not cruel.

I agree with every word of this. Your husband's reaction is so wrong that it makes me think you chose someone like him to marry because of the number your parents did on you. There is a school of thought that we chose our partner based on a primary relationship we are still trying to work out. I strongly suggest you seek out therapy/counselling for yourself when you get home to explore the effect your awful childhood has on you and your boundaries etc. Your husband hit his own child and lets his mother in law hit his child but thinks you hitting another adult to get her off your child is unforgiveable- there is something seriously wrong with him as a person, husband and father.

Another person here to echo the sentiments of sometimes it takes seeing your dc go through what you did to have the scales fall and start realising how screwed up your relationship with your parents was.

My parents never went to the violent extremes of yours, more head fuckery and hitting (sometimes with impliments) solo. I'd spent my life trying to appease them and failing miserably as everything I did was never good enough. Anytime they screwed something up it was turned around onto me and it being my fault. I've twisted myself into circles. Now I have dc I've realised they don't know me at all, they only know what they say I am which is often very far from the truth. They then started the head fuckery with my dc and then it kicked in. I'm lc with my father and vlc with my mother now. They're desperate to have me sweep things under the carpet, I've told them no - either this changes and we speak like adults or it stays this way because my dc will not be treated like that. They're confused because I won't go back in my box and any argument they've tried to make I've turned back on them treating small children the way they did - their stock argument about my selfishness won't work because I won't ever make it about me, just my dc. They can't argue that and they won't apologise. Tough for them, better for my dc.

It's hard as hell to break the cycles we are trained in. It's tough as hell to realise the truth. You are already better than them because you have realised your actions weren't the best. But that doesn't mean you need to fall into place ever again.

I'm very sorry you have suffered like this. But I think now you need to focus on your children. Your parents have shown they have not changed. They can not be trusted with your children. Don't leave them alone with them again ever. Also tell your son you love him, that grandma was wrong to hit him. That it is always wrong to hit people and that you will protect him. Explain to him that you were angry with grandma but you were wrong to hit her. You made a mistake but will never do it again. Also you will never let grandma hit him again.
I'm not surprised he has been difficult while you've been on holiday with grandparents like that.

What have your parents got on your dh, or done for him, that means he's siding with them over his own child.

What an arsehole your husband is!
Why is he siding with people who deliberately HURT your child?! Yes kids can be a handful and misbehave, that’s what they do! They don’t deserve to be hit and pinched! Sorry but you have a big DH problem. He’s not speaking to you because you stopped your son from being attacked, doesn’t make sense to me. Here’s my first LTB

I would apologise to your mum for hitting her and leave early. I doubt the holiday could be salvaged.

I would go very low contact with your parents from now on. For 2 reasons - 1 being that I'm concerned they were about to get hold of your son and physically harm him,and 2 - they are toxic for your mental health.

Be kind to yourself.

@FantasticButtocks (top user name btw) are you a therapist? You write so articulately about all the issues this throws up. Thank you for your thoughtful and considered post .
DH has now said he thinks I should try to reconcile with my parents as 'everyone else' thinks I'm in the wrong, there is no justification for what I did etc. I'm the only one who doesn't realise the enormity of what I did. He doesn't see it as defending DS, just awful behaviour on my part. DS was naughty and being appropriately chastised by my mother.
@prettybird thank you for the book recommendation. I thought PTSD was for ex military types who Saw Things In Combat, rather than the common or garden crap parents . At least they didn't try to poison me with mustard gas I suppose gallows humour

Never beat my children and if someone did this to any of my grand children I would have have hauled them off at the very least. Frankola says apologise to your mother, my god she could be done for assault.

I'm struggling to understand the logic and hypocrisy of your dh opinion -
It's ok for a 70 year old to hit a 6 year old child
It's not ok to hit a 70 year old.
Surely it's either ok for all to hit or not ok for anyone to hit. (And lets be honest, it's never ok for all to hit but it happens and all should be have consequences equally)

DH has now said he thinks I should try to reconcile with my parents as 'everyone else' thinks I'm in the wrong, there is no justification for what I did etc.

I would try and reconcile your 'D'H with a good divorce lawyer - PDQ!!!

What do you think OP? Because that is what really matters.

The problem is reconciling the need you feel deeply for her to become the mum you deserved and the fact that movement in that direction gives her power to either get you back somehow or gives her the green light to repeat that behaviour again.