My crappy childhood has just exploded

[DearTeddyRobinson]

I'm on hols with DH, 2 DCs, and my parents. 6yo DS is being a pain in the arse. DH and I are dealing with it as best we can but it's hard. He's clearly driving my parents mad and they are not hiding it. Lots of snide little comments to him etc. Anyway today there was some kind of contretemps at the pool - I wasn't there.
Next thing I know, DS is running into the house sobbing hysterically, with my mother hot on his heels, my father close behind. They were shouting the odds about him being a spoiled brat, I started to get angry with them and told them to stop bullying him. Yelling escalates, father tells me to leave and go home. While I'm yelling back at my father, I hear a loud slap and a scream. I run back in to where DS is and my mother is pinching his face and leaning down right into his face, hissing something at him. I shout at her to leave him alone, she doesn't and continues to berate him.
I slap her in the face. All hell breaks loose.

So while I was growing up my parents were violent disciplinarians. They would shout at and slap and beat me whenever I transgressed. They used to team up so one could hold me down while the other hit me.
On one occasion I was dragged naked from the shower (I was a teen at this point) and beaten on the bathroom floor.
I never wanted my kids to think this was ok and by and large DH and I agree. But I have serious anger issues and somehow still think that hitting someone is the ultimate resolution (not the kids though).
I think today all of this fucked up mess came boiling over. DH is disgusted with me for hitting a 72 year old woman - understandably. (But not with her for hitting a 6 year old who had a red hand print on his bum).
We are leaving tomorrow, 3 days early.
DH is barely speaking to me. The kids are confused. I am sick with god knows what - rage, guilt, whatever.
Where the fuck do we go from here?

No matter how well you think you've 'dealt with' being abused as a child there will always be triggers in adulthood that show you how much you're denying and have always denied about it.

'I get hit because I make them angry and they hit when they're angry, I hate them for it'

is less scary then

'They hit me because they are violent, No one will step in to protect me because I don't matter enough to anyone. I feel totally alone, very small, I can't escape, I'm frightened. I don't feel loved and they are all I've got'

No wonder you felt sick and overwhelmed, the nastiest unsaid buried thoughts of your early childhood have been played out in front of you, it was undeniably wrong for any child to be treated like that without someone putting a stop it. It's wrong for any child to feel alone, unlovable and frightened of violence

I agree with the PP the child you once were watched what happened yesterday and it's a headfuck but I really hope this can be cathartic for you

Poor you. I probably would have push her away from my child.
Honestly don't mess with Mamma bear. I can't believe that they would chase a child to shout and smack him.
I'm sorry you slapped your mother but probably you should have done it years ago when they were abusing you.
As for your husband he has to understand that you saw red and got flashback of your childhood.
Just awful situation. They were awful to you.

OP, I hope you come back! You really are not alone. Have a read of Pete Walker on ‘CPTSD’ which is Complex (ongoing) PTSD.

You have had textbook and utterly understandable responses to your childhood trauma.

You went on holiday with them - that was your ‘fawn’ response, people pleasing, smoothing over and fixing.

They attacked your son and you slapped your mother - there was your ‘fight’ response.

And now you’re in ‘flight’ and perhaps ‘freeze’. Your DH is firmly rooted in ‘freeze’ plus he also has substance issues. Did he have a traumatic childhood where his reaction is to disassociate and freeze in the face of conflict?

Replace your parents with a grizzly bear and we all have the Fight, Flight, Freeze, Fawn responses. Even the most holier-than-fuckin-thou MNer will respond in one of those four ways. You are responding in a perfectly normal, human way to a constant threat. You are a traumatised child.

You say you suppressed most of your feelings of anger to be able to see/go on holidays with your parents, why?
My childhood wasn’t the best either with similar discipline.
I have never hit my kids, not once, if either of my parents did, I too would slap them. It’s not the right way to handle things, but it’s what THEY taught you.
I forgave mine, to release my anger and guilt. I never forgot.
Since you have apologised, to her and your son. I would ask for an apology from nan to son as well.
Go home. Recover.
When they are back, ask for a family meeting and explain as per road map! With the proviso that if they ever hit your child again it will be the last time they see him or you.
It is your parents that should be punished not your son, he is supposed to be guided by parents/grandparents not abused.

Sorry for disappearing, we were packing up and moving into our lovely Aparthotel!
To answer a question, yes DH has smacked DS in anger. I was furious and made him apologise. He does agree that my mother shouldn't have hit DS, and he apparently did say that to her after the event. He didn't see the actual slap + aftermath as he stayed at the pool, 'spending time with DS2'.
I honestly suspect he knew my parents were going to lose their shit, and figured DS deserved it as he was being such a pain.
He's still barely speaking to me.
When the kids were messing around at bedtime last night, he snarled, it's your fault we're here so you sort it out.
I told him to fuck himself (twice). So yes it's just marvellous here!!
Thank you all so much for your thoughtful comments and input. There is so much to think about. I'm desperate to talk to someone and release all this. I've had a knot in my stomach for 40 years.

Sorry for disappearing, we were packing up and moving into our lovely Aparthotel!
To answer a question, yes DH has smacked DS in anger. I was furious and made him apologise. He does agree that my mother shouldn't have hit DS, and he apparently did say that to her after the event. He didn't see the actual slap + aftermath as he stayed at the pool, 'spending time with DS2'.
I honestly suspect he knew my parents were going to lose their shit, and figured DS deserved it as he was being such a pain.
He's still barely speaking to me.
When the kids were messing around at bedtime last night, he snarled, it's your fault we're here so you sort it out.
I told him to fuck himself (twice). So yes it's just marvellous here!!
Thank you all so much for your thoughtful comments and input. There is so much to think about. I'm desperate to talk to someone and release all this. I've had a knot in my stomach for 40 years.

Sorry about the double posts, I think MN is still a bit glitchy.
Reading some of the posts again, it's very illuminating. I am very reluctant to think of myself as a victim for some reason. It feels weak, like they have 'won'.
I'm also wondering will they ever have that moment of realisation- like - oh shit we were awful and need to ask forgiveness? They won't though will they? They will be sitting around winding themselves up about how awful I am, this is what they do. They see the world very much as goodies and baddies, they are naturally the goodies. Anyone different is clearly suspect. Any disagreement is seen as a direct attack.
Fuck. Why am I tying myself in knots about this? Agh.

OP, you sound strong and calm, as though the scales are falling from your eyes about your history. The question to ask yourself now is whether you can release all of this and have the support of your H while you do it? Do you think he'll support you while you mentally and emotionally unpack all of the horrors? Being charitable, it could be that he simply can't comprehend the genuinely awful things you've experienced, but only you know if that's the case.

Well done for getting away and moving into the new place for the rest of your holiday. How were things left with your parents as you moved out?

Sending love and strength, and for what it's worth, I would want you on my side - I think you sound remarkable.

Will they ever realise?

No. To do that would show them the truth they can’t face - that they are awful people and really awful parents.

I’m worried that your H isn’t a good person to be on this journey with

He knew what was going to happen and hung back and let it happen because his son was being ‘a little shit’?

I’d go NC with your parents without a second’s hesitation. I’d also tell h that the ONLY reason I’d not divorce him over this complete lack of back up is that I’d worry about how the kids would be kept safe Every Other Weekend.

When you get back, you need to get some serious counselling support to help you through this - support for you individually and additionally for you and H

You might just be able to be to turn this round, but make no mistake, a nuclear bomb has gone off in your relationship.

OP as a fellow survivor of awful parenting, could I point you towards the Stately Homes thread here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3588850-But-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes-survivors-of-dysfunctional-and-toxic-families

You'll find wise support from people who have had similarly toxic upbringings. All the best to you.

Reading some of the posts again, it's very illuminating. I am very reluctant to think of myself as a victim for some reason. It feels weak, like they have 'won'.

Then don't think of yourself as a victim. Think of yourself as a survivor, who despite terrible childhood trauma has gone on to become a good mother, who protects her children from abuse despite it being so triggering and horrible for her. You should be proud of yourself.

I'm also wondering will they ever have that moment of realisation- like - oh shit we were awful and need to ask forgiveness? They won't though will they? They will be sitting around winding themselves up about how awful I am, this is what they do. They see the world very much as goodies and baddies, they are naturally the goodies. Anyone different is clearly suspect. Any disagreement is seen as a direct attack.

No, they won't ever have that moment of realisation.

In the short term, you might see if you can access some CBT to help you with this tying yourself into knots that you're doing. In the longer term, more in-depth counselling might well be useful.

And your husband should be supporting you now, not criticising you. You are going to have to address that too, if you want to move on in a positive and compassionate way, but now might not be the best time.

Your H isn't being very helpful, is he?

If Im honest I was a bit troubled to hear you describe your ds earlier as ' being a little shit'. I'm wondering if there are aspects of your 'family culture' that unhelpfully echo what you learned from your parents, and perhaps DH learned from his? If so, you and your DH may both need to go on a bit of a journey together? Not easy in the slightest, but perhaps something to discuss with a counsellor.

And if your parents are demonising you and if your sister is getting drawn in (possibly as long-ingrained behavior to keep herself sage from the terrifying parents she too had to live with) - well, try not to take it personally. It's not you, it's them.

Safe, obviously. Not sage.

I can't remember if someone else has said it here OP, but I've been reading a parenting book recently (I need to). One nugget of advice is to ask yourself "Does this anger that I'm feeling belong to this situation?"

I mean, often it does (I.e. DS1 is being a deliberate arse) but the fact that I've paused long enough to reflect and ask myself the question means I cool down a bit by default could help, maybe?

I agree with ColdandSad above. I know about the knot in your stomach your whole life, you need to get away from your parents, because they are the cause. It’s hard, but the anxiety and fear fades when you are away from the source, so you can get on with dealing with your problems with a clearer mind.
They are abusers, and they will do everything they can to prevent you fixing what they’ve broken, and they will never ‘realise’ what they’ve done. They know, and think it’s ok.
My heart breaks for you, but you can walk away. Not so simple, I know, but worth it.

RockandRollSpoofShow is talking a lot of sense too. It’s easy for some to say “why would you have gone on holiday with them?” They haven’t been subjected to this all their lives and trained in survival responses to their parents’ abuse.

It's going to be a long hard road for you. Please don't be surprised if you end up really questioning your marriage he doesn't sound like a very kind or tolerant person and is probably more like your parents than you have realised

What @dreichhighlands said is perfect.
Make sure DS knows that your parents were wrong to treat him like that and hedid the right thing to run away. If a grown up ever hurts him he can come to you. You will protect him from anyone who tries to hurt him, like a tiger mama. But normally it is wrong to hit.
And don't see them anymore OP. They're not good people. Christmas and birthday cards maybe. Nothing more.
As for your husband...your relationship doesn't sound very healthy for either of you. But prioritise your DS right now.

@Dearteddy
I don't like your husband's response one bit, he's punishing you, this is totally fucking out of order he should have your back here, he's punishing you because it's inconvenient and irritating for him to put up with this
You are dealing with trauma from your childhood and the shocking behaviour of your abusive parents he doesn't give a f* about anything but his own convenience and comfort, he's not on your team, he's not on your side

When you have been in a position of not being able to make your parent happy, and being responsible for doing so (and punished for not doing so) it is really hard to get out of that cycle. It is a form of brainwashing.

But you need to do so to protect your children. They don't need to have a relationship with their GPs nearly as much as they need to know that you will protect them from people who will hurt them or make them feel unsafe. Go no contact with them.

They also need to see you model good behaviour, so get some therapy for yourself and, when you feel ready, encourage your husband to come with you for a session so that he can be encouraged to understand what you have been through and what you need from him.

When you have been in a position of not being able to make your parent happy, and being responsible for doing so (and punished for not doing so) it is really hard to get out of that cycle. It is a form of brainwashing.

But you need to do so to protect your children. They don't need to have a relationship with their GPs nearly as much as they need to know that you will protect them from people who will hurt them or make them feel unsafe. Go no contact with them.

They also need to see you model good behaviour, so get some therapy for yourself and, when you feel ready, encourage your husband to come with you for a session so that he can be encouraged to understand what you have been through and what you need from him.

When you have been in a position of not being able to make your parent happy, and being responsible for doing so (and punished for not doing so) it is really hard to get out of that cycle. It is a form of brainwashing.

But you need to do so to protect your children. They don't need to have a relationship with their GPs nearly as much as they need to know that you will protect them from people who will hurt them or make them feel unsafe. Go no contact with them.

They also need to see you model good behaviour, so get some therapy for yourself and, when you feel ready, encourage your husband to come with you for a session so that he can be encouraged to understand what you have been through and what you need from him.

When you have been in a position of not being able to make your parent happy, and being responsible for doing so (and punished for not doing so) it is really hard to get out of that cycle. It is a form of brainwashing.

But you need to do so to protect your children. They don't need to have a relationship with their GPs nearly as much as they need to know that you will protect them from people who will hurt them or make them feel unsafe. Go no contact with them.

They also need to see you model good behaviour, so get some therapy for yourself and, when you feel ready, encourage your husband to come with you for a session so that he can be encouraged to understand what you have been through and what you need from him.

Your husband is trying to control the narrative, to frame the situation in a way that favours his agenda.
His agenda appears to involve you being the bad guy, the whipping boy, the scapegoat.
He's doubling down, he must think he can overule you.
Hubris

DearTeddyRobinson you've hit on the key thing I think. Good parents will admit and acknowledge their mistakes and try to learn from them. They don't gaslight you or tell you that you are a drama queen/imagining it/mentally unstable/deserved it. They might say that they were struggling at that time or try to explain why they didn't make the best choices, but they accept that whatever the reason it was horrible for you.
I think it is almost the defining thing that crosses something from poor/terrible parenting into ongoing abuse (obviously with some exceptions for sexual abuse and extreme violence).