My crappy childhood has just exploded

[DearTeddyRobinson]

I'm on hols with DH, 2 DCs, and my parents. 6yo DS is being a pain in the arse. DH and I are dealing with it as best we can but it's hard. He's clearly driving my parents mad and they are not hiding it. Lots of snide little comments to him etc. Anyway today there was some kind of contretemps at the pool - I wasn't there.
Next thing I know, DS is running into the house sobbing hysterically, with my mother hot on his heels, my father close behind. They were shouting the odds about him being a spoiled brat, I started to get angry with them and told them to stop bullying him. Yelling escalates, father tells me to leave and go home. While I'm yelling back at my father, I hear a loud slap and a scream. I run back in to where DS is and my mother is pinching his face and leaning down right into his face, hissing something at him. I shout at her to leave him alone, she doesn't and continues to berate him.
I slap her in the face. All hell breaks loose.

So while I was growing up my parents were violent disciplinarians. They would shout at and slap and beat me whenever I transgressed. They used to team up so one could hold me down while the other hit me.
On one occasion I was dragged naked from the shower (I was a teen at this point) and beaten on the bathroom floor.
I never wanted my kids to think this was ok and by and large DH and I agree. But I have serious anger issues and somehow still think that hitting someone is the ultimate resolution (not the kids though).
I think today all of this fucked up mess came boiling over. DH is disgusted with me for hitting a 72 year old woman - understandably. (But not with her for hitting a 6 year old who had a red hand print on his bum).
We are leaving tomorrow, 3 days early.
DH is barely speaking to me. The kids are confused. I am sick with god knows what - rage, guilt, whatever.
Where the fuck do we go from here?

@saraclara in this instance the OP is the 'battered wife' except it is a parent/child relationship.

Would you also condemn a wife who hit her husband when after years of hitting her he then belted their kids? I bet not.

You’ve probably never received an apology from your M and F for beating you, so I would not even apologise for slapping your M. You were defending your son from her after she’d hit him and was active,y continuing to physically hurt him. Telling her “just stop” would have done nothing, you had no choice but to stop her.

I wouldn’t go on holiday with them. I’d never leave any of my kids alone with them not even to nip to the loo. If they can’t stop with the verbal abuse calling him spoiled and what not, then go no contact.

You have to be a parent to have the right to be a grandparent. Your M and F were prison guards who abused and beat you, they have no right to be grandparents to your kid. It’s lovely of you that you are giving them the chance to be grandparents, but if they are going to be like this you need to cut them out of yours and your kids lives.

DH knew but today tells me he thinks I am exaggerating. That hurts more than anything. He says it was long ago and I should be over it by now, and like you, asked why do I speak to them now if it was really so bad.

@DearTeddyRobinson this is really, really awful. I know you must have a lot going on right now but this would make me stop and think about what kind of relationship I'm in. It would break my heart if dh said he didn't believe something I'd told him.

I think that it says an awful lot that both your parents were running after a 6yr old to berate him & were so hell bent on doing so that the fact that you were there made no difference to them at all.

Your husband sounds awful.

I hope that you can both sort yourselves out for your kid's sakes.

Someone I know aged 70 her mother hit her hard, knocked her sideways her face was black and blue as was one side of her body. Mum was 95 in full possession of her faculties just a nasty woman. It was only when she lashed out at a carer that social services listened to her and got mum in a home. Some people are violent whatever their age.

Reading between the lines, it seems to me that part of your reasoning for thinking your dc would be safe with your parents, is rooted in your belief that you were a bad child (unlike your good sister) who deserved punishment.

You were not and are not bad.

The scapegoat/ golden child family model is very common in dysfunctional families. It might be helpful to explore that at some point.

I think you’re inspirational OP. You’re breaking the cycle. You’re not beating your children. Your protective instinct was functioning just as it should. Well done. Double well done, because it wouldn’t have been at all unusual for you to lapse into the helplessness of your own childhood, in those circumstances. It’s really to your credit that you were able to step up to save your son.

Ok, hitting an elderly woman wasn’t ideal. And you should definitely talk it through with your ds. But you stopped her, and for all the hand wringing on here, I’m not sure how else you could have stopped the assault on your son as quickly and decisively.

In normal family dynamics grandparents don’t chase and beat their grandchildren. They really don’t. If my dc need discipline (by which I mean a look, a word, a time out, removal of a privilege) I step in, usually while the dgps chide me for being too hard on “high spirited” children.

Your parents are not normal. I grew up at a time when a slap was acceptable child discipline, and I still say that your parents were not normal.

I know a stranger on the internet saying these things won’t help you grasp this. It’s a truth that takes therapy and courage and support to absorb.

There is nothing wrong with you. But there is something very wrong with your parents.

Without knowing more about your dh, I can only suggest being patient with him. I’m guessing that his world view might have been warped by his own childhood experiences? We are often drawn to people with a little bit of our own damage and that can be a dangerous combination. I think the two of you are doing well because you’re both challenging yourselves and moving forward.

But I do want to say clearly that for whatever reasons, his priorities are out of kilter. He should be concerned about his dc welfare, and your welfare ahead of his in-laws.

Your poor little boy. I'm glad he saw you stand up for him. I remember one time my godmother told me off and I was absolutely mortified. I can't imagine how scared your son must have been.

I really don't see how you can come back from this with your parents. How DARE your DM hit your son! I can only imagine that you saw the red mist and it brought back all the years of abuse you suffered at their hands.

And it was abuse. Teaming up so that you couldn't defend yourself? Deplorable. No, of course your son shouldn't have seen you hit your DM, but you were protecting him. I really don't understand why your husband is angry with YOU though, what, he was OK with your Mum hitting his son!?

I think the family dynamics are quite fucked here. Could you get some counselling as a family? And by that I mean you and DH and DS. Personally, I wouldn't ever speak to your DM or DF again.

I don't see this as being about who deserved what, you saw your child being abused in much the same way that you were, and you knew that you had to make it stop. I don't suppose there was much rational thought involved and you acted instinctively. I don't think you need to apologise for that. I also strongly believe that everyone has a breaking point and "no hitting ever" is simplistic. I think that therapy may help you to work out how you came to marry a man who is so provoking to you (and alcoholics can be very, very provoking, especially when they know your weaknesses) - were you looking for a reason to let your anger out, for example?

I do think that a huge part of my healing from the abuse I suffered from my parents was accepting that there was never going to be a happy ending. As a child I felt that I was responsible for making everybody happy and it was really hard to let go of that. I honestly think that you have to have no further contact with your parents, because there will never be a resolution they way you want, and waiting for one will only feed the problems you already have.

I find it very odd that if your husband saw all of this, he did nothing. He stood back and watched his child being hit, pinched and berated by two adults and he did nothing. Was he hoping that you would get angry so that he could use his disgust with you as an excuse to drink? Does he really think that what was happening was okay? And after what he saw today, he still claims to think that you are exaggerating about the abuse you suffered? There's something very odd there.

@PamelaTodd, that's a fantastic post. I hope the OP reads it and internalises it.

I would just like to add - OP, I absolutely get why you went on holiday with your parents. You said yourself that you're still kind of hoping they'll change into the parents you wanted them to be and that you're still trying to win their approval (I'm paraphrasing - forgive me if I've got it wrong), and I absolutely get that. My Mum wasn't violent, but my God she could disapprove for Britain, and right up to her death earlier this year, I was still trying to visit enough, visit at the right time, take the right gift, say the right thing... I'm in my late 50s.

Don't be like me. Use this as a catalyst to get things started to draw away from them, accept you don't need them or their approval, and get all the help you need to start living your own life to the full without their legacy weighing you down.

Thinking about you, OP. You can do this.

it's bizarre the amount of people who are cheering on physical violence with "she deserved it".

This. I feel for you, OP, but stay away from your family until one of you can start behaving like an adult.

PamelaTodd 💐

" his priorities are out of kilter. He should be concerned about his dc welfare, and your welfare ahead of his in-laws."

Yup-why isn't he raging that his 6yr old was chased by 2 adults as they were so determined to bully/assault him?

And ABSOLUTELY the OP should have gone off on one

The OP DID go off on one. She shouted at her mother to stop and her mother ignored her and continued berating a small child she had already slapped and pinched. Then the OP hit her. Why else should she have done? Continued shouting to no effect while her mother continued hitting/shouting?

What is bizarre to me is the number of people who seemingly would have left their mother continue to abuse their child. Except they wouldn't. I think people are imagining a normal grandmother in this situation - you yell, she stops. The OP's mother isn't normal. She is an abuser who likes to hit children. She didn't stop when the OP went off on one so just what was the OP supposed to do next?

Those defending the little old lady. Would you do this if it had been a random elderly female stranger that assaulted a child, perhaps your child?

This is a very distressing thread OP.

Your parents dragged you naked from the shower, held you down and beat you.
Jesus Christ. The humiliation.

Do not apologise to your bitch of a mother.

You showed restraint IMO. She layed her hands on your child.

Your parents are pigs and you should not be near them.

Your husband sounds like a waste of space and you need to think hard about your relationship with him.
He is either a support to you or he's not.

Tell your sister get lost with her support of your mother who assaulted a small child.

I think you sound very brave an calm.
You have had a shocking childhood with horrible parents and you have married a twat.

Definitely try and get help, support to help you navigate your future.

You were absolutely correct to protect your child and if I were you I would tell your mother if she ever lays a hand on you or your children again, she'll get another slap. The same for your father. Disgusting people.

If anyone chased and physically assaulted my child, I’d be in prison because they’d be fucking dead.

YANBU.

That's one messed up family. Sorry but I don't know why you are in contact with them AT ALL let alone holidaying with them. You're crazy having any contact with them. They are a terrible example to your son.if you want him to be a messed up and violent adult then carry on as you are. If not, go NC with them.

If your OH thinks it's acceptable for your son to be physically abused, he needs to be gone too.

That's one messed up family. Sorry but I don't know why you are in contact with them AT ALL let alone holidaying with them. You're crazy having any contact with them. They are a terrible example to your son.if you want him to be a messed up and violent adult then carry on as you are. If not, go NC with them.

If your OH thinks it's acceptable for your son to be physically abused, he needs to be gone too.

OP - it looks like your 'D'H feels that violence to children is 'discipline' whereas violence to adults is just violence. I have never hit another being in my life and if someone was hitting and chasing and screaming at my child, I'd have tossed her through a window. Especially with your history - you know what she'#s capable of. What they both are capable of.
I mostly suppress the crappy memories and just want to have a normal family! - this jumped out at me from one of your early posts. It's all very well to want to have a normal family, but all your family have to want this too, for it to happen. A PP said that your parents are not normal, and I agree, in spades.

I'd be going totally NC with my parents, and sis too if she can't see how fucked up they are (She sounds like the 'Golden child' in this family ) and NO WAY would I apologise for any of it.

I'd be rethinking DH, too.

If this were me, I would be doing the following in this order:

Get your children home. Don't discuss this with your parents or h while still on holiday. If you think things may escalate again, take your children to a hotel overnight or go home now if possible.

Write a letter to your parents setting out what your mother did to your son and telling them they are no longer welcome in your and your grandchildren's lives. State that you regret that it came to you hitting your mother after the above had been done to your son, but that you responded instinctively to seeing your son be subjected to what you were as a child and acted to defend him.

Book a session with a counsellor with your dh to discuss this, and some for you separately.

@DearTeddyRobinson
You'll get no judgement from me I promise you that.
It's happened, you need to move on, but what is the right way?
I wouldnt apologise to your mother, but I would start to make extremely strenuous efforts to work out WHY you reacted as you did. It might take years to get it completely straight in your mind, but it will be worth it. Obviously it must never happen again, no more hitting/slapping anyone but once you've worked out why that shouldn't be a problem. I've no suggestions as to whether it's better to do that with a counsellor or all on your own. I'm sure it's different for everyone.
Your DH sounds like he may be part of the problem too or have been in the past. Have you been in any violent abusive relationship before he came along? It probably won't have helped
Good luck with it all

Oh Teddy, I've read the thread and my heart breaks for you. For the childhood you had that was awful, and for the way you're still carrying the weight of it on your shoulders now.

So many posters have added really wonderful comments, and I don't have anything to add other than that you did the right thing and for what it's worth, you sound thoughtful, insightful and strong.

Where are you now? I really hope you're somewhere away from your toxic parents and able to immerse yourself in your DC for the rest of the holiday.

Sending strength...

I can't believe people are supporting the fucked up is thay she should apologise to her mother.

Her mother who beat her black and blue as a child.

Her mother who she found giving a tired of verbal abuse to her child. The person who she heard slap her child. The person who she found pinching his face as he was scared and still spitting vile words at him.

If a dog had attacked my child i'd have done anything to get them off and I wouldn't apologise afterwards.

If a strange man had attacked my child I'd have done anything to get him off my child - and i wouldn't apologise afterwards.

If my mother had attacked my child i'd have done anything to get her off and I wouldn't apologise afterwards.

The OP Shouted at the bitch the grandmother, who didn't decist. Her child was still being actively hurt and abused. Any mother worth her salt would and should have done whatever it took to get the attacker to stop attacking her child. A slap around the face shocked the grandmother out of her abuse whilst presumably not doing any lasting harm.

If it were me I'm pretty sure I'd have broken her bones. I'd have certainly thrown the vile woman away from my child and she'd have bruises. I'm not violent, and I'm not an angry person. I'm also a martial artist reasonably skilled in disarming an attack without harming the attacker, but my skills would have been useless on somebody who was attacking a child.

A shouted instruction or warning followed by a slap was 100% a fair and proportionate response to the physical attack on a child.

No way would I apologise to her.

I absolutely would stop them both from seeing my child. I would initially have said no unsupervised access but the grotty cowbag attacked in front of both parents, one who hasn't condemned her and one who had to resort to violence to get her to stop - so no, no access, not even supervised, in the best and most basic interest of protecting the child from physical harm.

I'd kick the H out too. The fact that your counsellor says they felt your actions were justified makes me think you've been well and truly fault by your family and H to believe that your age the one with an anger problem when your really and truly aren't. You're just surrounded by awful people.

If you can, take some thinking space when you get home and make a plan of how you are going to deal with what has happened. You lost it because your child was under threat from the same people who were unforgivably violent toward you when you were little, which is completely understandable. However, having been in your shoes both as a child and an adult, when I lose it it makes me feel like crap. So I would be going back into therapy, going NC with the toxic parents and would be having a really good think about how to deal with your DH. It is no accident that you have ended up with a man who drinks and loses control and this is also something I would be focusing on. Alcoholics can be be very judgemental about other people as it takes the heat off their behaviour.