Expectations of men as a modern woman dating...is this unreasonable?

[Turtleneckjumpers]

I'm single. I have a decent job which allowed me to buy a house in my late twenties (by no means a mansion, worth circa 220 in 2015).

I care about a nice home and want to see a bit of the world. I'm not materialistic in the sense of buying designer clothes etc (I'm a Primark person mostly!). But money bothers me. It is important to me because it is a safety net in many ways. So I work hard and hope to always be able to support myself.

Here's the question. I date. So many men have either not bought a house (I do understand this isn't easy, but by age 38 I question this!!) or in an average job earning less than I am - significantly.

I've met a lovely man, 38, good fun. But in a recent conversation he voluntarily disclosed what he earns (45k) and said he has a good bonus and car and he's happy with that. I didn't say this but i was thinking really?! Are you just going to think ok I'm happy with that?!

I've been thinking about how awful this probably makes me and how it is probably why i have been single for a few years now. Also people into their jobs are often (not always i know) not the best partners. But i can't help being bothered by this. I want someone who wants to provide and is ambitious. Am I attracted to the wrong things here or is this reasonable?

Well, good to know you've learned something today.

I'm 45. I own my own flat. I only earn £24k per annum. I'm a manager of a charity. I used to earn more 19 years ago in PR when I worked stupidly long hours. What I do makes a difference to people. The job varies from week to week. I have overseen envious changes. About to embark on a major project that will transform the charity. I will then have more staff and the trustees have assured me a significant salary increase. It will still be less than I would earn back in PR.

But I'm making a difference. I'm helping people achieve things. I could go to another charity and earn far more. But I wouldn't make as much difference. I can see what I have done over the last 12 years. I've transformed it. There are constant new challenges.

I have a female friend of 42 who earns well over £30k and still rents. Her one bed flat is half the size of my one bed flat. She's been single 11 years. Obviously men are put off because she doesn't own her property and earns such a paltry sum that couldn't provide for them.

perhaps he doesn’t see himself staying in the same place long term so doesn’t want to tie himself to a house purchase. Maybe he’s in London and simply can’t afford it. So are people on lower salaries who have no choice but to rent ‘throwing money away’ in your eyes? Young graduates who want to try living in a few different cities before thinking about their long term home?

You still need to get onto the property ladder. It’s an investment not a tie, if he moves he can rent it out. A single man can afford to save a lot or money on 45k a year.

Some people on lower salaries have no choice but to rent. That’s how most people start out. But on that salary he does.

I think I see money and ambition as GENERALLY one and the same. Because one usually follows the other.

Once again, that's only because you seem to hold the exceedingly narrow view that ambition=constant striving for a promotion. Or at least you hold that view for men, not of course for yourself since you intend to make yourself economically inactive and live off a man.

What do you want in a man?

"Given I seem to be living in a world where under 50k is definitely not seen a fortune, I can certainly say that none of the men have trophy wives and nearly all of them who are married prefer to be in work than looking after their kids."

Not sure I'm following..if men earn less they have unattractive wives, a bad marriage & don't want to look after their kids?

"Trophy wife" is a loaded term which implies a woman half the man's age who's only attribute is her looks. A successful man might chose a woman who's a bit younger (but not outrageously so) who has some success but is not on the same level as him.

Yes he might. He might also want someone who is happy to look after his children and has the ability to earn good money outside of doing that.

Ambition does not equate to money at all.

Some Olympic athletes will have bugger all money - would you really call them unambitious if they dedicated their entire life to success in sport?

How about amazing poets? Or someone setting out to save 1000 lives in a third world country?

No ambition at all?

One minute the view is a man on a decent salary will only want a trophy wife, the next it’s that they will want the women to be earning like they are and don’t want to be spending their money funding someone’s lifestyle!

No love, dont conflate the two and pretend they cancel each other out. Folk are pointing out that typically, a high earning man will either look for:

A gorgeous and charming lady to run his household, someone socially accomplished, modest and undemanding - typically younger, on a low wage / doesn't care much about her career so is fine with dropping it.

OR

A peer who earns at the same level and is similarly ambitious, who would split the costs of outsourcing childcare and house chore. Usually this lady would be older than the previous type of lady.

Of course #notallmen, etc but those are broad categories. You appear to straddle the categories in a way that may disqualify you more often than you appear to predict. Folk are trying to point this out to you.

@JoJoSM2 exactly!

Turtleneck, is your ambition to be a trophy wife would you say?

I would've thought in your position with you being able to support yourself you'd feel quite comfortable?

I personally hold morals and values in a much higher regard than anything else in a relationship.

£45k is a good salary by any reasonable standards and if you're already financially secure there's a little less need for him to be if you partner up - assuming he's responsible, always spends less than he earns and enhances your life in other ways too. If it was the other way round and he was making £100k you'd expect him to be happy with your £45k. I think you're just greedy.

FWIW I make about £100k, have assets of well over £1m and wouldn't dream of dumping someone with a modest income on that basis alone.

A woman who earns well and wants to stay home with children for a few years typically accepts that those years will be lean. No holidays outside UK, less lululemon and barre, a meal out once a month rather than weekly, and so on. All the mums I know who have done the temp sahm thing have cut their cloth in this way.

You dont seem to feel that's a reasonable option? Which hints at the idea that youd prefer never to return to work, or to stay at home for longer than it takes for your youngest to begin school. Folk may also be reacting to that

You’re looking for a very specific man. One who earns a very good salary (75k plus?) who has worked his way up the ladder (must not own 1mil worth of properties with inheritance) and who has bought a house (bearing in mind not everyone on a good salary wants to tie themselves to an area/property, especially if they don’t have a family). Must have a passion and ambition in life (but only for earning 75+ k per year and buying a house). Good luck, let us know when he turns up.
Luck.

This is a farcical thread. The fact that you are making such calculations will be very obvious to any man you date. This one has even ventured up his salary to test you out.

Never mind about small pools of men. High earners generally do pair off with each other, for a lot of the reasons you describe. And money to a high earner is a priority. It is everything.

Some people feel differently about it but if you want to have a lifestyle of a certain kind then yes pursue them. But I think other men might be spared your judgment and your attentions. They are people, not wallets.

In the past, I turned down someone with 65-70K salary + plus 10k bonus. Those were his words as I never asked abt the size of his pocket. My salary at that time was £900 a month. We were incompatible.
He was 36, renting an en-suite, with a car.

So I wouldn’t judge the guy you’re dating nor do I think he’s odd because he doesn’t have many career aspirations, many people are exactly the same - it’s why we function as a society, we need the bell curve! With that said of course you’re entitled to want to meet someone who earns the equivalent to you for a wide range of reasons. It probably does limit prospective guys but if you’re ok with weeding out then go for it I say.

I’ve been in a reverse situation (rich guy) and whilst I earn a generous six figure salary it caused problems because I was uncomfortable with how unequal we were financially.

I couldn’t care less abt his possessions.
But agree with posters saying high earners look for the same in a partner.

men aren't always looking for a trophy wife - and with respect, nobody here knows what i look like.

Are you attractive OP?

You didn't comment on my earlier post @Turtleneckjumpers .. most high earning men who want SAHMs are looking for low incoming earning attractive women. NOT their earning/career equal who will analyse, criticise, and compete against their spouse in the workplace.

ALL of my SAHM friends were low earners (but university educated) and we've all gone on to marry wealthy men.
Go figure.

but at age 38 i wouldnt just be thinking right that's it i will stop trying to earn more and achieve more

Why not? DH (40) earns less than £45k (self employed tradesman) but he loves what he does and can be flexible with his hours - I would far rather this than he worked 60+ hrs a week in a stressful job barely having any free time for me or DS or even his own hobbies or interests.

There are many threads of MN where the DW having given up her career does the lions share of childcare, while the DH is out of the home for upwards of 12hrs a day earning, also spending X nights/weekends on his hobby and barely any family time, because he needs to "wind down" after working all week. DW starting a thread on MN about how she's starting to resent it all.

This is how it starts.....

also feel it is my "job" to take a back seat on my career if i had kids

I can just see it 6/7 years from now OP, you'll be one of those posters!

DH job and his attitude of "working to live" means we've always done 50:50 childcare, including taking time off in school holidays, going to other kids parties etc. We have lots of family time but equally both have our own hobbies.

I find your views very old fashioned and if I'm honest, a wee bit misogynistic.

No way would I have been happy for DH not to be there for bath time, school plays, sports days etc because he was out "providing for his family". That's both of our responsibility as much as the childcare is, that's why I also stayed in full time work and kept my career. I earn between double and sometime triple what DH does but I couldn't care less.

I agree money and security are important, but no one should ever put that before their family or relationships

Anyhow Turtleneck the question is how old are you. Mid-30s? And you want children of you own? Then unfortunately you are running out of time. The sort of man you want is apparently very hard to find. But this man you are seeing now sounds very decent. Give him a chance.

One minute the view is a man on a decent salary will only want a trophy wife, the next it’s that they will want the women to be earning like they are and don’t want to be spending their money funding someone’s lifestyle!
They're two different types of men who are likely to be earning a higher professional salary. rvby explains it well.

I think I see money and ambition as GENERALLY one and the same. Because one usually follows the other.
Which, with all due respect, combined with your belief that £45,000 isn't that good a salary and you don't know people outside that bubble suggests you've got a fairly narrow view of ambition and success.

He might also want someone who is happy to look after his children and has the ability to earn good money outside of doing that.
Assuming that the time time out doesn't hinder the woman's pay, access to progression, the lack of availability of part time working, being overlooked for promotion because they're always the one sacrificing their career (you said yourself your job would be the kids) and so the company chooses to promote someone more reliable, loss of experience and contacts during the time out, not being as up to date as someone who hasn't taken a career break. The overall implication of one career being sacrificed, namely yours, is highly likely to ensure that you really are making the sacrifice because there's very few people who are irreplaceable.

That's not to say women can't work and have children but I think you're being quite naive in thinking you'll get a man who has the same ambitions as you (until you want to give up work in which case he needs to continue being ambitious and clocking up promotions), who is happy for you to do all the housework and childcare because their job is important, whilst also pulling in a large salary of your own in an area of interest around being the main caregiver and housekeeper and continuing to have access to the same opportunities as before the break when you're now dropping the career around home life (because that's what you've agreed with your DP).

is it materialistic to want to have a comfortable lifestyle with minimal money worries?

No, but it depends on what you call comfortable life

@Scott72
The sort of man you're after, about 40, very ambitious, well above average income, confident, and reasonably attractive too - what do you have to offer him? Why shouldn't he go for a younger woman, given that he can?

THIS.

My DH is 16yrs older than me. He, and his mates who also have younger wives, would much rather someone fun young and free than a boring senior lawyer the same age working all hours under the sun.

What do you have to offer these wealthy ambitious men OP? Except for your £250k flat...?

@lalag interesting that you consider a senior level woman “boring” but a senior level man is like your husband is “ambitious”. Outright sexism.