Expectations of men as a modern woman dating...is this unreasonable?

[Turtleneckjumpers]

I'm single. I have a decent job which allowed me to buy a house in my late twenties (by no means a mansion, worth circa 220 in 2015).

I care about a nice home and want to see a bit of the world. I'm not materialistic in the sense of buying designer clothes etc (I'm a Primark person mostly!). But money bothers me. It is important to me because it is a safety net in many ways. So I work hard and hope to always be able to support myself.

Here's the question. I date. So many men have either not bought a house (I do understand this isn't easy, but by age 38 I question this!!) or in an average job earning less than I am - significantly.

I've met a lovely man, 38, good fun. But in a recent conversation he voluntarily disclosed what he earns (45k) and said he has a good bonus and car and he's happy with that. I didn't say this but i was thinking really?! Are you just going to think ok I'm happy with that?!

I've been thinking about how awful this probably makes me and how it is probably why i have been single for a few years now. Also people into their jobs are often (not always i know) not the best partners. But i can't help being bothered by this. I want someone who wants to provide and is ambitious. Am I attracted to the wrong things here or is this reasonable?

i dont want someone to provide for me, otherwise i wouldnt have bothered working hard and buying my own home. but thanks of that suggestion.

orange yes you are probably right. i just find it uncomfortable when someone is content with less than i earn, especially when they are a good few years older.

It really depends a lot on the industry and location though - in some jobs and places £45k really really could be the peak for your career.

My ex earned a lot more than that. But it has meant that he was away working all the time and left me to do all childcare and housework. I'd much rather have had someone on £45k and me also work and both looked after the kids and home.

As long as someone is comfortable and is happy in his job then I wouldn't care if he was earning less than me or was happy to carry on earning that.

I think I understand what you are saying OP. It’s not about the actual figure it’s about the ambition/values.

It sounds like you want someone who has more ambition.

FWIW I think there’s a lot to be said for someone who chooses to be content on what he’s got (it’s a decent amount, he’s not struggling) because then he can actually live life rather than chasing an ever changing goal.

It's not unreasonable for someone to have a live-to-work / work-to-live threshold. If 45k is seen by this man to be the point where he can be comfortable, enjoy life and achieve the work life balance he requires then he shouldn't be criticised for that. If that doesn't meet your expectations then he isn't for you.

I think there will come a time when you look back at some of the lovely men you didn't give a chance, and kick yourself at this attitude you hold now.

illstartexercising that is how this man framed it...and he does live like that in fairness. he is happy with what he has.

all i think (rightly or wrongly!) is that that attitude isnt going to help when you need a new car for work, you have two kids or something happens in life where you need more security. to stop at 38 and be happy on that salary is surprising to me.

But there are so many variables! What would you think of someone on 100k with little ambition, for example? Or didn’t own a house, but owned other property?

The lack of house actually would worry me more than the salary tbh. At 38, the fact that every time he's had a wage increase it all goes on spending and a nice car would be a bit odd? Not even a bachelor pad with a lodger to cover the mortgage ?

Measuring someone's earnings in relation to their age is a strange perspective to take and a faulty comparison that will rule out a lot of people who could be special and worth getting to know.

On that basis I would never have met and got together with my DH, who is a highly intellectual and interesting person, who could have earned telephone numbers but his interests led him to different things, and consequently he runs his own successful but lower earning company.

Between us we are able to make sufficient to give us a good standard of living and what we need to be happy and build our life together.

You need to consider the complete package, who the person is, what their deeply held passions and values are, of which work ethic is a part but not the whole of that package as a person.

Be aware that if ever you were unfortunate enough to lose your income through loss of job or health issues, you would want someone to judge you not only on your possessions but on your worth as a humanbeing, and what you could offer into the relationship in many ways. So you need to do likewise.

I agree that ambition can be very attractive, but you have to be careful, too. There are plenty of ambitious men who'd want/expect you to take a back seat in your own career so that he can storm ahead.

This guy just isn't the right one for you, that's all.

I would say, however, that if your life values fail to align in important ways to a prospective partner then definitely don't get involved, because it will create tensions later on.

There are many many reasons whilst they may not own a house, to be honest in the southern half of the country if you want to live somewhere vibrant and interesting and are on your own, it simply wouldn’t be enough to get a big enough mortgage, and saving huge deposits if you haven’t inherited isn’t always viable. My sons friend who is only 29 earns around that and he house shares, because he likes having company around him. 45k plus benefits is good money, you are fortunate if you earn more. I’ve known lots of men on very high money, with the ego and expectations and often ‘burn out’ to match. He may love what he does and be happy to stay at that level, doesn’t mean he is unambitious, just comfortable with the level he is at.

I can see why you’d want someone with a house if they’re earning £45k but I think you’re wanting somebody ambitious. As long as I can live comfortably and am still able to do things I enjoy I am happy with my lot. I’d rather be comfortable and have the time to enjoy my life rather than striving to earn big money and work every hour of the day. Different strokes for different folks. You can live a comfortable life on £45k. It’s a big salary! I think you may be more materialistic than you realise.

I massively out earn my husband. Because he’s in a line of work that is vocational and doesn’t pay a lot. He’s HIGHLY educated and a wonderful person.
His pay packet is not what I fixated on.

However I wouldn’t date a waster who bounced from dead end job to dead end job.

Hmmm. When I met my DH he was working for minimum wage in a factory as the skills of being on a nuclear sub in the Navy didn’t really translate into the civilian sector.

I too had those thoughts. My family disapprove of him, said he was beneath me. (Classist)

But I fell in love so it ultimately did not matter. We both went back to uni. At 36 he got his degree and has gone on to a decent career. Now my family accept him.

Jobs, earnings, education all that changes with time. What really matters is the person not what they do or how much £ they earn or whether they own or rent. It only matters if you can’t support yourself.

Not everyone is career/money driven though. If someone has got themselves to a place where they are financially comfortable (which 45k definitely is) then taking a step back and just enjoying life instead of chasing more is ok.

It sounds like a compatibility issue; if what's important to you isn't important to them, that's a problem regardless

pretend do you think that's true?! i am trying to work out why i have this perspective and where it comes from. i also feel it is my "job" to take a back seat on my career if i had kids. i think it is how i was brought up...parents very happy but that was the set up.

maybe i am materialistic. i dont think that i am...i shop in sales, hate designer stuff...never go for full price. lived without a sofa for 6 months until there was a decent sale. but having said that, i get frutrated if i dont have money there in case of an emergency...so perhaps i am a bit bratty in that way. i dont know. i dont know where it comes from and i totally get that money isnt eveyrthing. for meit just means security, as far as it is possible to have that in life at all.

I was 30 when I met my now husband. I was earning £55k at the time, and I had no idea obviously but he was on £105k. We never discussed money until we moved in together.

What we did discuss though was work a lot, as although different fields completely, a lot of people management, marketing (we've actually crossed paths with a few of the same people), HR, and so forth was and is still now (despite me now being a SAHM) something we discuss.

He has said a couple of times that if I didn't have a good job or a job I was passionate about (I was) and ambition, we probably wouldn't have lasted as wouldn't have the same work ethic and drive behind getting up on a Monday morning and working weekends remotely. And I agree with him.

I think this is more personality based though than actually having the job and earning as even now I'm a SAHM, I can still completely understand and relate to a lot of his working day. He asks my opinion on some things which surprises me, but makes me feel very equal (I've never admitted that to him though).

Sorry - cutting long story short, I don't think you are being unreasonable, but I think you are actually focussing on the specific outcome of a persons work ethic rather than the personality that gets him there.

To me, the important thing to me, is how they handle the money they do earn. Do they work at a normal job and are reliable with it. Are they responsible. Do they pay on time and not have a lot of debt. Do they have any bad expensive vices. Do they save. Are they generous and not cheap and mean about money.

Making less is one thing, but being a work shy cocklodger is another.

Of course if you really can't respect a man because he earns less than you or has ambitions that aren't focussed on enlarging his pay packet then you are better off having nothing to do with such men. All you'll end up doing is making them miserable.

It doesn’t mean he doesn’t have any ambition. It means that money isn’t what motivates him. Being happy in his job may be more important given that his salary is plenty. Maybe he’s in an industry he loves where there’s no more progression, or where progression means moving away from the job he loves into one that’s more oversight than the actual task

If you want someone that’s extremely ambitious and driven by money then by all means keep looking - but you will have to compromise somewhere because no one is going to perfectly fit your tick list.

Oh, also, when I met DH he was 34, didn't and had never owned a house. Rented in a nice area on his own though.
He didn't buy a house because he didn't know where he'd exactly end up, and it was nice to be able to do that together a year later.

I think YANBU to say you want to date someone ambitious however YABU to suggest this man should want more, or to judge him for it. Or that there is something in any way wrong with his attitude.

If he has been single 45k is a massive amount of money for one person to spend.

He probably feels very comfortable on this and instead of focusing on his career wants to focus on living his life, enjoying his time. Earning 45k is a good balance between money and free time for him. And potentially depending on his career there isn't much further he can go

I do think you need to have a think about why you feel this way, money isn't everything. To a certain extent obviously money brings comfort, however there's no point having lots of money if you've wasted your life working and working with no time.

I would say you do sound very money focused, hence why you are placing so much value on shopping in the sales etc. Living without a sofa for 6 months to wait for the sales isn't impressive, it just sounds a bit tight if you are as comfortable as you say you are.

My brother met women like you when online dating in his thirties in London, women who shared interests but would announce there wasn't any point going on a second date when they gleaned he didn't own a flat and had a ceiling on his salary due to working in higher education. It was very demoralising and he had to take the radical step of moving to an area of the country with lower property prices and a more relaxed attitude to success to meet someone who appreciated him for qualities other than earning potential.
He is now married and is a very hands on father, so in the end he didn't miss out but I hope his former dates didn't.
After being married myself for more than 20 years, I'd say kindness is far more important than ambition as a quality to look out for in a partner.
I also have a friend (male), who announced back in the mid nineties, that he thought it was irresponsible to start a family on less than £80,000. He had a huge salary now but is trapped in a very stressful job he hates due to his massive monthly outgoings, large mortgage plus expensive school fees X2 and a wife who is lovely but does not believe in skimping on anything and gave up her career. His health is not good and he would benefit from slowing down but can't.
DH and I have never averaged anything like £80,000 but have somehow managed!