Expectations of men as a modern woman dating...is this unreasonable?

[Turtleneckjumpers]

I'm single. I have a decent job which allowed me to buy a house in my late twenties (by no means a mansion, worth circa 220 in 2015).

I care about a nice home and want to see a bit of the world. I'm not materialistic in the sense of buying designer clothes etc (I'm a Primark person mostly!). But money bothers me. It is important to me because it is a safety net in many ways. So I work hard and hope to always be able to support myself.

Here's the question. I date. So many men have either not bought a house (I do understand this isn't easy, but by age 38 I question this!!) or in an average job earning less than I am - significantly.

I've met a lovely man, 38, good fun. But in a recent conversation he voluntarily disclosed what he earns (45k) and said he has a good bonus and car and he's happy with that. I didn't say this but i was thinking really?! Are you just going to think ok I'm happy with that?!

I've been thinking about how awful this probably makes me and how it is probably why i have been single for a few years now. Also people into their jobs are often (not always i know) not the best partners. But i can't help being bothered by this. I want someone who wants to provide and is ambitious. Am I attracted to the wrong things here or is this reasonable?

The fact that you haven't found anyone suitable despite being surrounded by nothing but high earners suggests that your expectations may be a bit high.
Or that the OP isn't meeting the dating criteria of these wealthy ambitious men who meet her criteria.
Or that her perceptions of what these men want in a partner is off
Or that her attitude and expectations are showing to the men she meets and that puts them off (e.g. some high earners may be happy supporting a spouse who has grown with them and they've been together for 5/10 years before wealth but may have massive reservations about someone turning up in their 30s seeking to settle down with a rich man who will support them staying at home and because of the SAHP arrangements may well take them to the cleaners in the event of a divorce)

The OP has contradicted herself so much in this thread.
Absolutely the case all the way through.

lola the last three men I dated (two of which could be classed as relationships rather than dating), were all ended by me. These men have all wanted to settle down and were not just comfortable but very wealthy.

I’m sure there are plenty of well off men who wouldn’t be interested in dating me. But what I am trying to say is that if it was all about money then I could very easily have settled down with any of these men. In fact with all of these three I ended things with, they did not take it well and many weeks and months of chasing followed. So with respect, I’m not just about the money and I am yet to ‘put off’ a wealthy man because my perception of what these men want is off (that actually made me laugh). I’m actually pretty kind and caring and have an opinion and the ability to have good conversations...despite your desire to want to suggest otherwise

"Yes and I accept that. I know that would be hard but I do accept it and in many ways I think I even expect that."

I think it's sad that you would prioritise marrying a £50+ ambitious man over and above having someone there to share the raising of your children and to be there for your children's milestones. I don't think you DO actually know how hard it would be or how much your kids may miss out on.

Each to their own I guess.

So hang on, it's not about money because you've ended it with wealthy men and had wealthy men chasing you, but it is about money because you rule men out if you don't like your image of their future earnings.
You know that all these wealthy men want exactly what you want so your expectations aren't out at all.
There's loads of single wealthy men in your circle.
And yet you're single. Despite having what all the men want, the perfect outlook for them, all the right assets and so on.

So what you're actually telling us is that you're such a massive catch that you can afford to cherry pick from this massive ocean to wealthy men who want you and it's just that you're so in demand you can be choosy.

And that you have sought opinions but don't need them because you already know you're right on all accounts.

No, Lola. I’m just illustrating the fact that it’s not just about money otherwise I would have settled with one of these men.

I’m sure plenty of men wouldn’t be interested in dating me, whether they have money or not. But that fact really isn’t relevant to this discussion. The fact about the 3 previous men, is relevant. And that’s why I mentioned it.

So what was wrong with these other guys who passed the financial criteria? Were they all equally uninspiring?

If you aren't a troll OP I'm sorry I accused you of one. But your posts certainly display a lot of naivety. I get that its not just income you're after, its also ambition and drive. You need a man who not only has a well above average income, but also is exceptionally ambitious and career driven. However such men are rare, rarer than you'd think. And they aren't much fun to be around apparently. Such ambition consumes most of your waking hours and energy. He would be an absentee father and husband.

By your standards OP, I must be completely unambitious lol. Only playing, but to give you another perspective.

I’m 39 (but female) and earn £42,500. I live at least three hours from London, so my wage is deemed decent. I have a nice car and a nice house which I bought with my husband. He has an identical job to me.
We have only one child and no pets.

I feel satisfied. I have reached a point where I wish to enjoy life and a slower more relaxed pace, rather than spend my days kissing ass and trying to climb the ladder. I could go for promotions if I wanted...in fact I’ve been offered many, but declined the extra responsibility. I don’t want to live to work, I want to work to live.

As for the house, maybe he hasn’t felt the need to make it his priority until now...as long as he can contribute fairly when and if he moves in, is really all that should matter.

So what was wrong with these other guys who passed the financial criteria? Were they all equally uninspiring?

I was wondering about that

So what was wrong with these other guys who passed the financial criteria? Were they all equally uninspiring?

Probably under 6ft tall which is the dealbreaker for the majority of women on online dating sites.

No funnily enough they were all over 6ft. I just wasn’t feeling it I suppose. It’s either there or it isn’t...

The way people are brought up or stuff that happens in people’s lives affect their attitude. Eg someone who’s parents worked all hours to put them through private school which benefitted them may see it as high priority to do the same whereas someone who was bullied or went through family breakdown (because of private school/financial strain) could react against that. Someone who knows someone who had a life-changing illness young may want to live life more ‘in the moment’.

Myself and DH have different cultural backgrounds which makes us have different attitudes to work, saving, leisure time. It was hard at the start - just after we married. But I know he was at heart a caring guy who was committed to me in the long term and I could talk to him and tell him anything. Now we have both changed. He knows what is important to me (extended family) and I know what is important to him (time to de-stress). I would say someone’s character is more important than an initial impression of their current priorities - ie widen your net?

45k is more than enough - I had a very comfortable childhood on less than 30k p/a. So I guess I think YABU, but to me 45k is a lot of money, more than anybody in my extended family earns.

I do still think if there was a thread with the question of what’s your salary, there would be a lot more over this than under it. Especially if you count people of all ages.

A simple search on the national statistics office will let you know what average earnings are, across all ages. (Median being less than £30k per year in 2018).

But it's well over the national average wage, more than 15k over. There's no need for a thread on Mumsnet about it, it's a pretty reliable statistic

Seriously, I really think it would help you to break out of your bubble and meet people who you do not mingle with in your everyday life. You honestly sound like you don't have a clue. Maybe do some volunteering, see what actual poverty looks like, you may change your view on what is comfortable.

Statistics are far more reliable than a Mumsnet thread OP.

OP go to this website www.ifs.org.uk/tools_and_resources/where_do_you_fit_in

Please, humour us all and do it. You enter your salary after tax either weekly, monthly or yearly, your household size, and it tells you where you fall in terms of income distribution in the U.K. I’ve just done mine, I earn just over 45k. I have a higher income than 84% of the population. I think the institute of fiscal studies is a more reliable source than the people you mix with

I think the institute of fiscal studies is a more reliable source than the people you mix with

I dunno - the IFS sounds a bit lacking in ambition to me

ASHE table 20:

www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/datasets/agegroupbyoccupation2digitsocashetable20

This has decile pay by age group, sex and occupation, and full or part time.

If you look at the median on the gross annual pay tables you can see the wage where 50% earn over and 50% earn under.

You can even exclude part time workers if you want and review that. It still won't sit near 45k.

I would hope the OP realised by now that there are all these ‘paupers’ out there. But she’ll want a rich husband anyway and that is a non-negotiable trait of any guy with a chance.

I've saved down the relevant data from the latest office of national statistics data set and attached it here, in case that helps.

Just " not feeling it " .

So many rejects .

When they asked 'what is your salary?' on a previous thread, the majority responded to say more than 45k.

My understanding of this is the poster is saying that she is interested in meeting someone with aspirations and ambition. That can be in a number of areas including career, travel, sports etc. Finding someone who is passionate, successful and ambitious can be a big turn on. Sometimes people want some one who has something about them. Ambition and/or success (rather than money) can be that thing.