Expectations of men as a modern woman dating...is this unreasonable?

[Turtleneckjumpers]

I'm single. I have a decent job which allowed me to buy a house in my late twenties (by no means a mansion, worth circa 220 in 2015).

I care about a nice home and want to see a bit of the world. I'm not materialistic in the sense of buying designer clothes etc (I'm a Primark person mostly!). But money bothers me. It is important to me because it is a safety net in many ways. So I work hard and hope to always be able to support myself.

Here's the question. I date. So many men have either not bought a house (I do understand this isn't easy, but by age 38 I question this!!) or in an average job earning less than I am - significantly.

I've met a lovely man, 38, good fun. But in a recent conversation he voluntarily disclosed what he earns (45k) and said he has a good bonus and car and he's happy with that. I didn't say this but i was thinking really?! Are you just going to think ok I'm happy with that?!

I've been thinking about how awful this probably makes me and how it is probably why i have been single for a few years now. Also people into their jobs are often (not always i know) not the best partners. But i can't help being bothered by this. I want someone who wants to provide and is ambitious. Am I attracted to the wrong things here or is this reasonable?

I was with you up until this-

I also feel it is my "job" to take a back seat on my career if i had kids

You’re what, under ten years in to your career and already looking to get out and be a kept housewife?

I don’t think it’s that the men you meet are unambitious, I think it’s that the ambitious ones see through you and don’t want to be a meal ticket.

rich your post is really interesting and i totally get why you have chosen that job with that salary and seem to have your life sorted. this in itself has made me consider that the guy in question here was very much lacking in any sort of self awareness with his choices and yes, i do think it a mistake not to have bought somewhere by age 40. to have brought in london is a different kettle of fish in itself and a huge achievement!!

You're assumptions are way off. Teachers don't earn close to that!! You must life in a bubble to think that.

I earn 45k as a senior academic at a university. The top of my scale is 50k and to progress beyond that whilst not impossible is very difficult.
However, my job gives me an enormous amount of flexibility and autonomy plus very generous annual leave which is worth more than money.

*Your

marie wanting to stay at home to look after your (and your partner's) children is not saying you want a meal ticket.

for what it is worth, i have dated 2 men in the past year with huge amounts of money. i ended both of these relationships and they definitely didnt want them to end (understatement). im not looking for a meal ticket, i have my own meal tickets sorted.

Well into the 60k region for a teacher would probably be a head of year or deputy headmaster at a secondary.

Primary teachers wouldn’t earn that and even a primary head would have to be running a reasonably big school, if we’re talking outside of London.

Non-GP Drs only make mid 30-40k until they hit Consulting level, and even then their NHS salary is usually under 100k. They make the really big bucks privately.

As for Nurses, you can be a nurse practitioner with dispensing authority and still be earning under 50k. That’s with a degree and at least one or two Masters level qualifications on top.

lola i guess that is what it is. im not sure i should shy away from my lifetstyle i have worked for though, just so a man feels better about himself
I'm not saying you should.
I'm challenging the idea that it's only just comfortable to live on £45k (which is a very sheltered view to have).

Ultimately, you either:

1. keep working so that you BOTH maintain a £100k lifestyle (based on your income requirements)
2. you have to accept a change in your lifestyle when you go from two incomes to one whilst you come out of work

3.you accept that you're after a man who will financially plug the gap whilst you're out of work because you don't see why your lifestyle should change.

Either way the focus of any prospective relationship seems to centre on whether he'll keep you in the lifestyle to which you're accustomed, an attitude which may well be a deal breaker for many men.
if it is all the same that is how i want to live. It is far easier when the man earns more, for all sorts of reasons, even if just politically!!
It's not easier at all. It's easier if both partners work and put in equal share at home.
I have zero clue what you mean about how it's better politically for the man to earn more.
It sounds like tripe to excuse the approach "I've worked for my career and got to the point where I want to settle down and have kids and now I want a man who will be happy for me to leave work for an unspecified period of time and look after me financially to the standard I expect".

pater im not sure where you have the figures for non-gp doctors. i know plenty and even at entry level the number starts with a 4.

im not looking for a meal ticket, i have my own meal tickets sorted.
You are if you're going into a relationship sizing up their finances and expecting the successful man to support you not working for an unspecified period of time AND whilst you're not working keep your lifestyle the same as when you were as a single professional with a high disposable income

You can't say I'm not after a meal ticket at the same time as ruling out men who you deem unfit to financially support you and your lifestyle to the standard you want.

im not sure i should shy away from my lifetstyle i have worked for though, just so a man feels better about himself.

Yet you want a man to fund that same lifestyle for you so you can do as you please once he also provides you with a child. I'd feel like you were out to use me if I were dating you.

In October, my daughter is marrying a man whose grandparents are very, very wealthy, self made. His aunt is one of my closest and oldest friends. We are a working poor family and my daughter is a paramedic who served time in the Forces (uni wasn't for her straight out of school). Her fiance is a commercial airline pilot. What draws them together (they knew each other fleetingly as children, but crossed wires again as young adults, is their partnership as people, the love they have for each other, their shared values and shared Christian faith.

Of course they discuss what may be their future life as a family (this is promised to no one, it's not a guarantee) but what's important is their lives together, both as a couple and as individuals in a couple, their shared values and interests, how these might change in time and how they'll handle that, basing their lives on the here and now with an eye to the future that may be, but most of all valuing each other for the people they are rather than materialism and 'ambition' and lifestyle .

That's maturity for you, not just seeing someone for what they can give you but how the pair of you come together as a couple in a partnership. That's really quite sad and mercenary. I'd not want my children involved with someone who evaluated them the way you do, tbh, they are so much more than that.

So it's better you reject people like the 45k Man. You're doing him a favour.

im not sure where you have the figures for non-gp doctors. i know plenty and even at entry level the number starts with a 4
F1 junior doctor - 27,000
F2 junior doctor - 31,000
Speciality registrars - 37,000
Only by 3 points in to speciality registrar does the salary go above £40,000

wanting to stay at home to look after your (and your partner's) children is not saying you want a meal ticket

Choosing a partner, and therefore the father of these hypothetical children, based on him having an income that can subsidise yours entirely while you choose to quit work is pretty much the definition of a meal ticket.

MarieBaroneIsMyMom
Exactly!
If not looking for a meal ticket then seek someone with lots in common, nice personality traits, similar hobbies or outlooks in life. People tend to find those similar to them have similar 'level' jobs or close enough as part of social circles I thunk. Then get to know them and find out if you're both seeking a serious relationship, make decisions about your shared future together because you love each other and want to build a relationship and family unit together.

Don't rule people out who you've barely dated because you don't think their salary is good enough to support your lifestyle when you give up work for children that don't exist yet

OP, on this 'modern woman dating' - you sound very old-fashioned in your outlook

I also think it's very unfair and blooming rude to suggest that SAHMs want a meal ticket. I'm a SAHM with a good lifestyle and DH is very happy that I am - he works long hours and is happy that I'm around to hold the fort. And he does want me to have a nice lifestyle and is happy to support it.

I guess it's perhaps because I grew up poor,
and don't live in a super expensive area, but tbh I was "comfortable" on £25k, as a single person. Even if I lived in a more expensive area (2 bed flat around £1100 per month rent in the nearest properly expensive town near me) then I would still easily be comfortable with a salary in the 40s. My bills on an equivalent house come to £250 including Netflix and my mobile. (Total so far £1350 a month.)

Running a small, nice, reliable car (but not a fancy, brand new car) costs me about £800 a year in service, MOT, and tax, plus petrol. (Running total = £1416)

I can do a really lovely holiday for a week in Europe usually for under about £750 including spending money. (£1473).

That leaves £1000 a month for food, petrol, clothes, meals out, saving etc even after costing in a holiday, and allowing for circa 10% pension contributions. (On a salary of £45k.)

That's a huge amount of money for one. It would still be a pretty chunky amount for 2 (2x holiday plus 2x car brings you up to £1610 per month and still leaves you a fair whack for nice things).

It doesn't allow you to have an expensive car on finance, and a £1000 phone on contract, and an expensive gym membership, and multiple holidays a year where you don't research them to keep costs low, and expensive clothes from brands not in the sale. But that doesn't make it not really comfortable. It means you have to cut your coat according to your cloth. If you have a car on finance (maybe £250 a month, sometimes up to £500?), and a nice phone (new Apple contracts often around £50?), and a gym membership that's not for a municipal gym (maybe another £50?) and a Hobbs habit (at £150 a dress, even one every 2 months adds up), then suddenly you aren't going to feel very comfortable. (Say £525 a month for that lot then, plus additional holiday costs.) But those are all choices and making expensive choices doesn't mean you don't earn a salary on which you could live comfortably.

I only know one teacher and i have never asked their salary but yes i would assume that the peak of their career would be well into the sixties

Ha Ha Ha

A head of year on £60k? Not likely.

What about people who work in shops OP? Bar staff and waiters? Hairdressers? Nursery staff? Cleaners? You honestly thought the peak of all these jobs would be well into the 60s? Seriously how are you so unaware? Why do you think there’s a housing crisis? People can’t afford homes because they don’t earn anywhere near that!

JoJoSM2
I don't think anyone is saying being a SAHM is wanting a meal ticket. People make the right choices for them and their partners and their families all the time and part of that is looking at family finances and making those decisions.

When you met your DH I'm guessing you hit it off with each other, got to know each other, dated, moved in, discussed kids and so on and then came to the conclusion that you both were happy with your current set up.
The OP is ruling out guys she's barely met on the grounds of she doesn't think their salary is high enough to keep her in the lifestyle she wants when she gives up work to be a SAHP (they're not even in a relationship yet but are being filtered based on a presumed period out of work that she is expecting the date to finance in their hypothetical future).

What some of us are saying is that if you start filtering potential partners based on their current income and whether you think they are ambitious enough to keep you at your required lifestyle then that is meal ticket behaviour.

LolaSmiles well, maybe the OP just feels strongly about staying at home already. My intention was to go back after 3-6 months and I only changed my mind when DS was born. Had I been dead set on being a SAHM for years, I might have been bothered if it didn't look likely. I actually have a friend who's desperate to be a SAHM and currently putting off ttc to save up for it to be possible.
And anyway, if the OP is surrounded by professional men with high earnings, she's probably quite likely to find one that's a good match + also has traditional views on family life.

It's just sad. When DD and her fiance reconnected as adults they both said there was such a spark. They had met a few times as children but that time, it was just like wow and then they found out how much they had in common as people. It's wonderful to see their love and how it's based on who they are as people fundamentally, especially as parents, you want your children to be happy and marry someone where there is mutual respect and love of the soul inside.

JoJoSM2
She may well have decided that.
Then she would surely get to know a guy and see if he has similar ideas of family life allocation of duties etc. Then when the time comes they make it work because they both think that's best for their family.

I can't get past the idea of "this is the lifestyle I want and I want to come out of work and I'm ruling out anyone who doesn't earn enough to give me the lifestyle I want whilst I don't work".

The attitude is probably more of the issue than wanting to stay home. Most people when they go from two incomes to one know there's a bit of belt tightening, not on the breadline but there's some changes and they make it work because that's their family unit. Different people will have a different idea of comfortable is but they make it work.

Going in with an idea of I've just met you but:

• are you earning at least as much as me
• ambitious and always seeking promotion because otherwise I'm not interested
• driven to have more money because being happy at £45k is problematic to me
• I know we don't have kids but I've decided that it's my job to sacrifice my career for them and stay home
• when I'm not working you need to be earning enough so that I don't notice change in my lifestyle, after all I've worked for this lifestyle (prior to giving up work)

Is so far removed from most couples making their family arrangements.

tim nobody is saying don’t marry for love. See my posts above about ending relationships with men who happened to be wealthy. It’s not just about money.

I do wonder if you’d be saying the same things about your daughter’s relationship if she had chosen to marry someone unemployed or who was uninterested in providing your daughter with any security at all as they enter their marriage. Just because I feel more comfortable with someone with a similar outlook on finances doesn’t make me morally corrupt.

lola I didn’t say I expected not to see a change in my lifestyle.

I said I want someone who at least expects the same lifestyle as I have carved for myself. Sitting back at 45k seems unusual to me, though I accept it doesn’t seem to be unusual generally given the replies on this thread.

"OP is surrounded by professional men with high earnings, she's probably quite likely to find one that's a good match + also has traditional views on family life."

Then those men would probably have been married earlier in life. Perhaps she should be looking for a divorced older man?