Expectations of men as a modern woman dating...is this unreasonable?

[Turtleneckjumpers]

I'm single. I have a decent job which allowed me to buy a house in my late twenties (by no means a mansion, worth circa 220 in 2015).

I care about a nice home and want to see a bit of the world. I'm not materialistic in the sense of buying designer clothes etc (I'm a Primark person mostly!). But money bothers me. It is important to me because it is a safety net in many ways. So I work hard and hope to always be able to support myself.

Here's the question. I date. So many men have either not bought a house (I do understand this isn't easy, but by age 38 I question this!!) or in an average job earning less than I am - significantly.

I've met a lovely man, 38, good fun. But in a recent conversation he voluntarily disclosed what he earns (45k) and said he has a good bonus and car and he's happy with that. I didn't say this but i was thinking really?! Are you just going to think ok I'm happy with that?!

I've been thinking about how awful this probably makes me and how it is probably why i have been single for a few years now. Also people into their jobs are often (not always i know) not the best partners. But i can't help being bothered by this. I want someone who wants to provide and is ambitious. Am I attracted to the wrong things here or is this reasonable?

Most well earning men that I know would run a mile from you, your priorities are all wrong. Men don't want to be judged on their earning potential, they want to feel appreciated for who they are and the good traits that they have. I have an acquiantance like you, she is now almost 40 and still single, watching her fertile years go by. Is that what you really want?

He, and his mates who also have younger wives, would much rather someone fun young and free

Of course, those who are "fun young and free" will not always be so. If that's what your husband prioritises, good chance he'll try to get rid of you as soon as you are no longer "fun young and free".

Of course, those who are "fun young and free" will not always be so. If that's what your husband prioritises, good chance he'll try to get rid of you as soon as you are no longer "fun young and free".

That poster seems to think that because she's 16 years younger than him, she's safe. But as she grows older, there'll be an ever increasing pool of women who are funner, younger, freer and more attractive than her. And if her husband is as wealthy as she wants us to believe he'll have no trouble attracting them.

When I met my DH, 36 years ago, I earned quite a lot more than him, but I liked/loved/fancied him so much it didn't matter. I had to work lots of evenings and weekends in job and he was 9-5 which made life together easier. He does a job I could never do which meant i didn't really think about the money.
10 years on we had two children and needed a nanny to cover our working hours, very little spare money so it didn't matter who had earned it.
20 years later I'd had a career change and he had lots of new qualifications and some promotions, he earned more than me.
Now he is semi retired and I'm working full time, he has an income just a little more than mine.
During all these years and with all these changes money has never been an issue for us at all. Please, OP, don't base your relationship on what this man earns, during the course of your life your earning position is likely to alter a lot.

I'm 38 and earn £45k and to read that this apparently means I lack ambition and don't care about progression is pretty depressing and couldn't be further from the truth.

I'm a senior academic at a university. My salary won't rise above £50k unless I get a professorship (really difficult in my subject) or take on a management role ( which would take me away from teaching)

The OPs complete lack of awareness of how the world of work actually operates is astounding.

Benes - I'm a sexual offences forensic medical examiner on £41K. I'm at the top of my pay scale. I can bump this up a bit by doing extras but my basic will only go up with annual pay awards. I don't want to go into people or service management. I have a degree and am working towards a masters degree. I have had ambition to get to this point and although I don't earn as much as someone in the business world I think my contribution to society is worthwhile, as I'm sure you do too. Money and seeking promotion to management isn't the only measure of worth is it?

Absolutely itson
We should not judge the value of a career by its salary. Those jobs that are most valuable to society are often the lowest paid. It doesn't mean those people lack ambition or drive.

I did a teaching qualification and my PhD while working full time in order to get my job. If that doesn't demonstrate ambition and commitment then I don't know what does!

I think when you are young enough not to have experienced ageism or redundancy or two recessions or the motherhood penalty, you can think that a secure job paying 40k is not the peak of your career but truth is if your job is secure enough that you can bank on it continuing then you have security ahead. Id rather have 40k a year every year than several periods of job hunting every couple of years followed by a lower salary than the one before which is the way it usually pans out if you lose your job after 45.

want someone who earns at least or the same as me? and why do i feel i want this?

Internalised sexism, probably.

That poster seems to think that because she's 16 years younger than him, she's safe. But as she grows older, there'll be an ever increasing pool of women who are funner, younger, freer and more attractive than her.

What women - and men - who boast of their youth don't realise is that youth is an attribute that every single person who has ever lived has had. And at some point, every single person who was once young will no longer be so. Including themselves.

The OPs complete lack of awareness of how the world of work actually operates is astounding.

Completely agree with this!!
My fav was her comment about ambitious people almost always being financially rewarded for ambition... I mean... tell that to the PhD-holding migrant on a boat in the fucking Mediterranean ffs. Fate is cruel and strikes us all.

I have many friends who work desperately to be validated with a promotion and pay rise... the vast majority languish and later have to accept that they will not progress. It's simple maths, there are limited roles and countless competitors...

Hence my comment that OP sounds sheltered in the extreme....

YANBU but you have to set that against the reduced likelihood of meeting someone who also ticks your other boxes (though on the flip side, if you marry a lower earner like I did and which actually is a bit of an issue for me if I’m honest, your assets are at risk if you marry and divorce). I think it really comes down to how keen you are to meet someone soon.

Isn’t the average £25,000?

I don’t know one single, solitary person who earns £45,000.

I earn 37k in a public sector role (I can hear the sniffing already 🙄)

Progressing much further beyond my level would remove me from the technical work I love and merely result in far greater levels of stress, longer hours and, sadly, non-stop grief from the public.

A mega salary won't earn me a better place in heaven but is more likely to buy me an earlier ticket there. I think I'll choose to enjoy my limited time down here as best I can and with who I want to...

rvby
Not even that. Tell that to someone who's got a PhD in the UK and has to not put any roots down and take 3 month post doc placements anywhere in the world for a tiny wage.
Or the people who want to get into competitive industries who have to somehow fund unpaid internships and do years of zero hours work hoping they might just get somewhere.

OP's view of success is warped

I think that looking at the earning potential of a partner is quite short sighted. If you plan on having a life together with someone, it's you and them come what may. And what might come is physical or mental illness, redundancies, bankruptcy (if a business fails) debilitating accidents, and that's just for the start.

Were you not really feeling 45k guy and his apparent lack of ambition just another thing that put you off? Or did you like him and this was the only thing you were unsure of? Because if it is the latter, I think you may have problems.

There is so much shit that life can throw at you. So much. You need a strong partnership based on trust, love and shared values. Not just money.

Sorry this post has been a bit Oprah-y

im reading all these replies and taking it on board. i honestly thought i wasnt particularly well paid. i think i sort of assumed that the peak of any career would be well into the sixties at least, in any profession, trade etc. i dont know where this has come from other than knowing that life is expensive and 45k to me with a family of say 4 would seem difficult.

it is probably a mix of the fact i am around people earning much more than me and that i find living off my income to only just about comfortable. i dont have a fancy car or fancy clothes or eat out every week so perhaps i am missing something! maybe it is all the student loans!!!

i havent meant to offend anyone and i apologise if have.

I agree with the OP as I’m a similar position but earn even more. It’s almost impossible to date men who earn a quarter or a third of what I do because our lifestyles are so different. Sooner or later l have to subsidise them, which my exes have secretly hated as it made them feel emasculated (although they were happy to accept my money at the time). It’s a very real problem.

Did you really think that nurses, teachers etc earn 60k plus??

The thing is OP, we adjust our lifestyles to fit the budget we have, so we become accustomed to our style of living but the reality is that it is often perfectly possible to be comfortable with less.

You may think that your £45k a year lifestyle is only just comfortable, but that's because it's what you're used to, not because £45k is needed to be comfortable.

sonata this is what i have found...there's awkward conversations about things almost as if they dont like the fact that i want a nice house and nice sofa etc! it is frustrating because i've worked for it so yes...if it is all the same that is how i want to live. it is far easier when the man earns more, for all sorts of reasons, even if just politically!!

benes i only know one teacher and i have never asked their salary but yes i would assume that the peak of their career would be well into the sixties.

You can have aspirations but them not be related to money. I think constantly chasing career progression is a waste of time for most people, I mean who cares in the grand scheme of things. I would rather have plenty of free time to enjoy and be able to switch off.

I think your dating pool is somewhat skewed as well by the fact that the most well off men find it very easy to get a partner/ wife and by 38 are likely to have done so. So you might have to settle for someone like the guy you mention.

lola i guess that is what it is. im not sure i should shy away from my lifetstyle i have worked for though, just so a man feels better about himself.

I'm a 39 year old guy in that 40-50k bracket that works in London. I'm in relatively mid-level role and I feel have a pretty good work/life balance. I do own my own flat, it's a small one bedroom in zone 4 - took me the best part of a decade to save for the deposit.

If I'm completely honest and looking at those in more senior positions around me, I'm not completely sure I'd want the stress, anxiety and lack of work/life balance that goes with having a job that pays over 50k. They are nearly always emailing in evenings/weekends, can never really switch off when on holiday and always seem to be on the verge of burnout. I'm fortunate in that I don't have to have email on my phone and can leave work at 5pm everyday plus work for a pretty progressive company that has flexitime, etc.

I consider myself relatively ambitious and am sure it would be nice to have a bigger flat but I can afford to go on holiday a few times a year, don't really worry about what I spend on a night out or when I go shopping but the thought of becoming director level or senior management just doesn't appeal to me with the added pressures and not leaving the office until gone 7 every evening.

I do hope one day to meet someone who I can start a family with and perhaps combined earnings will help with finding a bigger flat or we can decide to move further out and buy a house but that's all something I guess we'd figure out in the future if it does happen for me. I guess the whole issue of childcare and staying home would also be something we'd figure out together when the time comes. Part of the reason I wouldn't want to have a high pressured job would be because I'd actually want to see the person I end up with in the evening and have that time in the evening and at a weekend together. Life is far too short and work for me isn't the be all and end all.

I don't know if it will ever happen for me though. I know I'm a catch and a decent person but OLD in London is brutal. I did think it would get easier in my late-30's but the women I do meet also in their mid-to-late 30's do all seem to want it all and seem to be pretty unrealistic in what they want. I know this is the downside of OLD as you always think someone better looking or with a better job, better status might only be one more swipe away.

kitty what is odd about your post is that it supports exactly what i am saying yet also tells me that my approach is a waste of time.

if "men with money" are likely to be already married because they have money...what does that say exactly?!