Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Flip

1 2 ··· 13 14 15 ··· 30 31

Original poster

Expectations of men as a modern woman dating...is this unreasonable?

764 replies

Turtleneckjumpers · 04/08/2019 11:00

I'm single. I have a decent job which allowed me to buy a house in my late twenties (by no means a mansion, worth circa 220 in 2015).

I care about a nice home and want to see a bit of the world. I'm not materialistic in the sense of buying designer clothes etc (I'm a Primark person mostly!). But money bothers me. It is important to me because it is a safety net in many ways. So I work hard and hope to always be able to support myself.

Here's the question. I date. So many men have either not bought a house (I do understand this isn't easy, but by age 38 I question this!!) or in an average job earning less than I am - significantly.

I've met a lovely man, 38, good fun. But in a recent conversation he voluntarily disclosed what he earns (45k) and said he has a good bonus and car and he's happy with that. I didn't say this but i was thinking really?! Are you just going to think ok I'm happy with that?!

I've been thinking about how awful this probably makes me and how it is probably why i have been single for a few years now. Also people into their jobs are often (not always i know) not the best partners. But i can't help being bothered by this. I want someone who wants to provide and is ambitious. Am I attracted to the wrong things here or is this reasonable?

OP posts:

Original poster

Turtleneckjumpers · 05/08/2019 22:55

scott there’s a lot of unmarried men where I work and I’ve never felt I wanted to date any of them. They’re not the only pool of high earning men.

OP posts:

timshelthechoice · 05/08/2019 22:59

You're the one who wants a man to fund you in your own chosen lifestyle or you reject him when you barely know him, Turtle .

And believe me, those men aren't stupid. They can smell someone like that a mile away. You're not looking for someone with 'similar outlook on finances' but at someone who will be a baby daddy with a wallet and you get to do all the staying a home.

My daughter was interested in someone who first and foremost shared her faith in God and the value system that goes with it, and is perfectly able to provide security for herself. She discovered in her fiance a person who shares similar views about life and marriage, because again, there's no guarantee there will even be children, much less this whole SAH paradigm you're already rejecting people for, I mean, what if it's more feasible for the father to stay at home, say, he loses his job or they both feel it's better for him to stay at home, or any other range of childcare options. You never know how you'll feel until the child is here, if you even get that far.

Counting your chickens before they hatch is arrogant and presumptuous.

Original poster

Turtleneckjumpers · 05/08/2019 23:05

tim as I’ve said many times now, if it was about money then I would have married already. I have had the opportunity more than once.

I’m glad your daughter has found someone she can share her faith with. But as I’ve said, if she was marrying someone with was jobless I highly doubt you’d be so supportive. By the sounds of it your daughter hasn’t chosen to have a career that pays well - no judgement or problem there - but with respect you cannot then presume to understand how it feels to have a man undermine that when inevitably the woman takes a step back from her career to give birth at the very least. And yes, it is assuming children happen. As most people do factor into their future before they actually have them, and cross the bridge later if they can’t,

OP posts:

Pillowcased · 05/08/2019 23:09

I don’t know you’ve titled this thread ‘expectations of a modern woman dating’ as you seem to have incredibly old-fashioned views and expect the unfortunate and ‘unambitious’ Mr £45 k to potentially support you as a SAHM, which is why you’re acting as though his salary is a personal insult. (Also, did you ask him his salary on your first date and say ‘Tsk, tsk, must try harder’?)

Here’s a wild idea. Continue your career full-throttle and FT whether or not you have children. Then his tiny ickle contribution won’t bother you so much.

vbhafjlb · 05/08/2019 23:23

How is a 45k salary remotely comparable to someone who is jobless?!

Scott72 · 05/08/2019 23:26

Are you saying that marrying a moderately ambitious man on 45k pounds per year (which is significantly above average in the UK going by earlier comments) is at all equivalent to a young woman marrying an unemployed bum?

"a man undermine that when inevitably the woman takes a step back from her career to give birth at the very least"

So assuming this poor guy would be willing to support you as a SAHM (which would be a burden on him) you would resent him for somehow undermining your career achievements? What undermines your career achievements more is becoming a SAHM, when you could continue to work.

Anyhow this is all hypothetical. If you want to have kids, you will have to compromise significantly somewhere. No way around it.

longestlurkerever · 05/08/2019 23:29

I think the OP is getting a pretty rough ride here. She comes across as naive and in a pretty privileged bubble but not morally corrupt or beyond redemption - she's posted her inner thoughts looking for external viewpoints after all. OP, I hope you have been given pause for thought by some of the replies but it's not an awful thing to have worked out what it is that makes you tick, as long as you respect other people's choices and circumstances too.

BackforGood · 05/08/2019 23:33

but with respect you cannot then presume to understand how it feels to have a man undermine that when inevitably the woman takes a step back from her career to give birth at the very least.

"inevitably" ?

In whose world is it inevitable ??

You have put "modern woman dating" in your title. Has the definition of the words 'modern woman' changed without me being notified ?

I didn't 'step back from my career' when I got married, nor when I had my ds.
Blimey, my mum was a more modern woman than you seem to be, and she was doing her dating in the 1950s.

What strange, no, bizarre ideas you have.

Batqueen · 05/08/2019 23:36

I will agree with you OP as far as to say that if you date someone making less than you or if your salary/career overtakes theirs when they consider themself a ‘career person’, they need to be someone who is comfortable in their own skin and not going to be emasculated. My friends and I have come across a few of these in the past who get worse and worse the better the woman’s career goes.

Doesn’t mean they are all like that though and I don’t think the answer is to write off anyone under 45k. There are also so many options for e.g shared parental leave, flexible workings- why fixate on the old fashioned model before you even know what your family will look like and if that will work for you?

Sunbeam18 · 05/08/2019 23:41

@richdeniro you sound so nice!

blueshoes · 05/08/2019 23:57

Given I seem to be living in a world where under 50k is definitely not seen a fortune, I can certainly say that none of the men have trophy wives and nearly all of them who are married prefer to be in work than looking after their kids. But as people have pointed out, apparently that’s not reality in general life. It’s news to me I have to say.

OP, I get you.

Most people on this thread cannot seem to get over the fact that £45,000 is not a lot of money. Therefore, if you want someone who earns more at 38, they must be workaholics or only want trophy wives etc.

In London (I am not sure where you are), £45,000 is not a lot. I would expect a reasonably ambitious man in any of the professions or finance or IT or executive role in the City to own a decent amount over that. 6 figures will not be that unusual. Those men don't get their pick either. They have normal looking wives and not particularly big houses or cars, unless their spouse earns equivalent at least.

You are not unreasonable to want to find this man. If you are in your late 20s, that is a good age. You are still young. I met my dh when I was 32 and married him at 34. Dh earns many times over £45,000 now though I outearned him substantially when we first met. But he was reasonably (not super) ambitious and wanted to be a good provider.

If you like ambition, you won't be happy with someone who settles for £45,000 and no house. There is still time and hope. All the best.

Namenic · 06/08/2019 00:19

From a tax point of view it usually works out better if both people in a couple work and take shared parental. Of course it also depends on how long people want to breastfeed, what pumping/storage facilities are available...

IlluminatiParty · 06/08/2019 00:37

Personality is worth more than £££.

My partner earns less than me, both of us around the 25/30k mark so comfortable but not rolling in it, but he's virtually paid off his mortgage not least from living simply. We don't rely on each others finances. I've got my buffers. We have amazing wonderful loving times together, doing stupidly banal things mostly, lying in bed like teenagers when the kids are away, playing cards and having sex. Not everything has a price.

I divorced my richer ambitious Ex because he was a cold hearted selfish twat but at your age he seemed perfect so choose carefully and don't lose those kind ones who make you laugh. They are rare and special.

Adversecamber22 · 06/08/2019 02:21

DH and his friends are in the income bracket you describe, from about 60k with the very top earner on about 200k per annum.

Almost all of them had settled down by late twenties or very early thirties, most met their partners at university. Myself and DH met at work when he was 29.

Your at an age where the pickings are becoming slimmer not impossible but slimmer and your criteria narrows the field further. One of his friends was very honest and said he liked being with his partner because she knew him when he was just a poor student.

Scott72 · 06/08/2019 02:46

How often does a very ambitious, successful man with a 50k income or more get to late 30s or 40, never married, no children, then decide to quickly marry a woman close to his own age and start a family with her immediately? It would be rare. Men and women are under different pressures with regards to career and family, and men get it easier unfortunately.

If he wanted a traditional family, he could of started it younger, as adversecamber22 points out, as men can start families without impacting their career as severely as it would do for women. A very ambitious, driven and successful single man late 30s or 40 is going to very attractive to younger women, even if his income isn't huge. That doesn't mean a "trophy wife", it might mean a woman about 30.

HUZZAH212 · 06/08/2019 03:38

"Nearly all of them who are married prefer to work than looking after their kids"... Never has a more depressing statement been made. Hey kids, forget that you never spent quality time with your parent growing up. At least we could afford a better class of car/sofa/holiday...

timshelthechoice · 06/08/2019 04:07

Yes! Hilarious, isn't it?

By the sounds of it your daughter hasn’t chosen to have a career that pays well - no judgement or problem there - but with respect you cannot then presume to understand how it feels to have a man undermine that when inevitably the woman takes a step back from her career to give birth at the very least.

Wow! What an unbelievably arrogant, condescending and patronising attitude you have. You have NO idea what my daughter's life has been like, the kind of person she is, or the kind of life I've had, our family has had and you have all these presumptions - from a person who's not just single but also never been married or had kids that's so rich it's laughable. So is comparing a young woman who does a vital job marrying a man who also does a vital job to marrying an unemployed criminal or bum. So glad most people don't live in such a narrow box.

I'm actually not at all surprised you are single, tbh, any man with a grain of sense is going to sniff your attitude out pretty quickly. Unbelievable! Not only does this Prince Charming have to have it all and be willing to fund you to be at home with what is his child, too, with graciousness but also worship the big sacrifice you are making to do so by making sure you never feel undermined.

MK1975 · 06/08/2019 04:11