Why is everything on his terms?

[KittyVolition]

I’ve been seeing a guy for a couple of months and I’m really into him. We have lots in common, great rapport, there’s a chemistry between us, we make each other laugh, it’s all good.... except....

Everything always has to be on his terms. If I suggest meeting up he either says no or is a bit vague about it but then comes back with his own alternative suggestion a few days later. He seems to control our communications too. He’ll say something like, I’ll call you early next week and we can arrange that but then I feel like I can’t contact him in the meantime. Or if I do, I sense that he’s slightly irritated. I don’t really get it. It’s like he wants everything to be in his control and on his terms.

Has anyone been with anyone like this before? Is it just a minor irritation or do you think it’s a sign of bigger issues?

Nearly all abusive men are narcissistic and he may eventually become physically violent.
Wouldn’t that have manifested itself by his age (40)?

You have no idea he has never been violent.

Charm is a conscious thing, many people use it in social situations. Surely you know how to be charming ! It’s just putting your best face forward. Thing is narcs use it too often & to manipulate people/situations.

He has warned you selfishness & cruelty is in his nature so he will turn on you one day. It had best be awesome sex & I hope his d!ck game is A1 at least.

If you have had unsatisfying sex your whole life can see why it would be so hard to knock him back right now. At least you are aware of what we see in him & won’t be shocked when it starts to go sour.

I think you may be getting too hung up on the narcissist thing. He may or may not be. I don’t know. What I do know is that healthy relationships are once where you don’t worry about saying no, in case it disrupts the relationship. This is just illogical. If people are genuinely caring, when their partner says no, the other will say, oh, ok, what shall we do instead etc. Healthy communication like this helps make a Relate, not break it.
You say you have never seen him be selfish, but every time he doesn’t text you, reply to your messages, say no when you suggest something, that’s exactly what he’s being.
You’ve offered other examples which make alarm bells ring. Don’t ignore these. You deserve more, better.
Instead of wondering whether he is or isn’t a narcissist, ask yourself why you would want to be with someone who only wants to be with you on his terms. You’ve only been in this relationship a few weeks and you can already see, to an extent, what he is like. I know it’s hard, but gather all your self esteem together and kick him into the long grass. There are plenty of other fish in the proverbial dating sea!

When it say it’s illogical, I mean it’s illogical for you already to be worried about saying no.

Tell you what, you still have that work issue, right? Take the woman's advice on it. Because his way didn't work. Regardless of whether it works or not, tell him it did. Tell him you're so glad you tried her way because it was excellent advice and it really helped. Tell him shes really clever and you like her take on things. Tell him you're sorry you spent so long trying the other way.

I'll bet you see his real face then.

Second thoughts, you might not want to see his real face.

So far this week he has contacted you (as he said he would) and you've arranged to see one another on Saturday.

But it isn't as simple as that, oh no. You haven't mutually arranged where and when already. No - he has told you that he will ring you on Thursday or Friday to make the arrangements, thereby keeping you on tenterhooks because you don't know which day he will call. If he rings you Thursday you will be overjoyed, if he doesn't you will worry and then when he rings you on Friday you will be relieved. And desperate to agree to anything.

Then we all know what's going to happen, don't we? Either you will suggest what to do on your date and he willcome up with something different (which you will agree with as you want to see him) or he will have already decided where you are going, and you will agree to that too.

He is in control, not only of when he contacts you and where you go on dates, but also by keeping you in a constant state of uncertainty - so that you will do anything, just so long as you can see him.

Has he told you how lovely you look when you wear a particular outfit/do your hair a certain way yet? He will keep on complimenting you like that. Often. So you will learn how he likes you to dress, and then you will change your appearance and the way you dress to suit what he likes. He will have trained you.

Before long you will find that your taste in music changes too. Because he will tell you are right when you like the sort of things he likes. And you will soon worry about expressing a different opinion in case he disagrees with you (because you don't want to feel like you got it wrong, do you?).

And eventually you will find that you don't trust yourself to make any decisions or have an opinion about anything any more.

He has already told you that he can be selfish and cruel. By continuing to see him you are agreeing to those terms and conditions. He warned you, didn't he? So by staying, it is your own fault if he is selfish or cruel towards you, isn't it, because you knew what he was like and accepted it as part of the bargain. So he will tell you that you are crazy or ridiculous or trying to control him if you ever stand up for yourself.

And of cause because he's already told you what he's like, you don't want to make him angry, so you do your best to be a good girl and do as you are told.

Do you get it now?

Walk away now, with your mental health intact.

To quote Miranda on Sex and the City ‘I’m sorry but he is just not that into you’ the thing is OP I’ve been married twice and lived with someone for 4 years and am now in my 50s and the guys that ‘were’ into me were certainly at the stage you are ‘very ‘ into me , I never had to initiate anything or force anything, quite the opposite really, , I’ve asked my friends the same question and they all said the same about guys that they had full and long relationships/marriages with.

The problem with this situation @user147 is that it's not just about someone not that into you. That's fine - it's managable - it may be a bit painful when you come to terms with the rejection - but you move on.

OP (as those of us who have been there have testified on this thread) is dealing with someone who will inevitably do her a large amount of pschological damage. Her self esteem will end up ground to a pulp to a point where she can't simply dust herself down and move on. It becomes emotionally debilitating and affects trust, self confidence everything.She just can't see it - yet.

Agree totally with dorothy and others. This is a narcissist in action. They are amazingly charismatic but utterly toxic. It can only end badly if you stay OP. Please ditch him and go no contact. You can't win with these people. You can't change them. They are what they are. He has warned you he is cruel so that you can't say you weren't warned. He means it.

The restricted contact times are because he is dating someone else or multiple others. They are being given specified shag nights too most likely.

OP, there is a phrase 'if someone tells you who they are, listen!' He basically told you he is cruel and has a bad temper and you are deciding to ignore this by staying with him. Another classic is 'You're too good for me' (said to me by several of my ex narcs). I agree with the PP who said this is done so they can say at a later date that they told you how they are so how can you be mad about it! Normal people do not say these things.

Is it intentional? Yes, narcs have had alot of practice at manipulating women and become extremely skilled at it. They know exactly what women want to hear and how to present themselves and mirror you. When you fall in love with a narc, you actually fall in love with yourself (I.e the good qualities you have that you project into the narc).

Also true that you have no idea whether he has been violent in the past. You only have his word to go on at this stage and he's unlikely to be honest about it is he? I'd suggest doing Claire's law on him and seeing what comes up. You say the aggression isn't aimed at you, but it only isn't aimed at you YET! It shows he has a lack of self control when he throws things and he's trying to minimise this by saying it's because he is Italian (total bullshit!). One of the best predictors of whether a man will be physically violent later on is when they act aggressive around you (throwing things, swearing at other people, slamming doors, driving fast to scare you). Its all done with the intention of intimidation and letting you know if you piss them off, this could be you. Being rude to service staff (like when he gets mad on the phone) is a huge red flag. You should always pay attention to how he treats people who he believes are beneath him (waiters, check out assistants etc) as eventually this is how he will treat you. He is a narc and eventually you will go through the devaluation stage where he will think you are beneath him. It is inevitable because they know they are a broken piece of shit and therefore anyone who loves them must be even worse. Their heads are entirely fucked up when it comes to relationships and none of it makes sense to a normal person. He will try to destroy you simply because you love him.

I also note how everything you listed that he likes about you is entirely superficial (intelligence, good career good looking). Narcs only value these things in a partner because it benefits them in some way. I bet if you asked him why he likes you he would struggle to list anything personal about you that really matters. Eventually he will become so envious of the good qualities he likes in you now that he will try to destroy them all if he cant take them for himself.

You are playing with fire here OP

Another thing is that him not contacting you is very likely because you are not his primary supply (I.e he has several women on the go) and he simply is trying to juggle you all. It's a boost to his ego too that he can keep you hanging by a thread with so little effort.

He really reminds me of my ex covert narc. He would never do activities I suggested, it was always what he wanted to do and he had it all planned out (turns out he just took all the women he was shagging to the same places that he knew he wouldnt bump into anyone). He was also emotionally cold. He could say the right things but talking to him on the phone was awkward and I could sense a simmering resentment towards other people and me all of the time. I also saw flashes of anger (narcissistic rage) which I put down to him having a bad day at the time. He limited our contact in the beginning and would take ages to text back until I pulled him up on it and we only saw each other on weekends (he told me he worked away) and on his terms.

Heres a link to a thread i posted about him. You may see some similarities here but remember i was 4 months in at this point (and god it makes me cringe to see how clueless i was back then) www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a3169225-is-he-being-a-dick-or-am-i

I binned him after 6 months and he stalked me for 6 months after that and sent me the most offensive emails admitting I was one of many and he 'did this for sport'. He was entirely unhinged and I'm still waiting for the court case. This led to 2 further short term narc relationships after as PP's have said, one narc relationships can lead to a downward spiral because they destroy your self esteem.

I agree with other PP's that it is important to understand he is very likely a narcissist as opposed to just not being into you. The difference is that narcs will destroy you if you let them and you can predict their future behaviour.

Stop looking at the things you have seen as one off incidents and look at what they say about his character. His character is deeply flawed and dangerous to boot. I really hope you dint have to find this out the hard way like many of us on here.

Jaffacakesaremyfave It's very brave of you to link your thread which has painful memories for you

Let's hope OP reads and learns from it.

In the end...he'll be the one who dumps you. You are too into him and besotted to voluntarily leave the relationship.

He holds the power and you're his puppet until he done.

All you've done is defend him. The silver lining here, is there are no children involved.

If he never initiates contact, what does that tell you?

Try and create a full life without him. Find friends away from the group... develop your own interests and be happy within yourself.

Thanks @QueenOfTheCroneAge. I hope so too.

It actually got worse from there and he tried to accuse me of extortion to the police www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3617554-my-stalker-ex-is-telling-the-police-i-extorted-him-for-10k

OP, I wish you could see what this man is really capable of. He's just like my ex, you are just in the early stages so cant see it fully yet. I worry that even if you end things now, he wont let you leave easily. You seem to be so caught up in worrying about losing him if you become assertive but you have to realise that it is a GOOD thing if you scare off men like this. It means they realise you would make a shitty victim and they can move on to an easier target. Dont be a victim

@Jaffacakesaremyfave

when you fall in love with a narc, you actually fall in love with yourself (I.e the good qualities you have that you project into the narc).

This is actually the simplest and most clever explanation of the problem of involvement with a person suffering from narcissistic personality disorder that I have ever read.

This is the core of it. Your ideal partner is yourself. You get on. You have the same interests. You have the same tastes.

Someone wanting to (cynically) seduce you, just needs to be you and mirror you back to you.

100% winning at Narcissist Description

when you fall in love with a narc, you actually fall in love with yourself (I.e the good qualities you have that you project into the narc).

And narcs are clever enough to pick up on this and mirror those qualities back to you in the early days. By the time they can't 'hold the pose' any longer (or choose not to) you're well and truly hooked.

Thanks, I heard that when I was learning about narcissism and it really made sense to me.

I think the projection goes both ways. You project your good qualities onto the narc (which they mirror hence feeling like soul mates). We see the world through our own filter and therefore project our good qualities onto others which I can see the OP is doing when she is baffled by his behaviour. For example, if you are an honest person who doesnt lie, cheat or steal then you assume the majority of people dont do this either, especially those who 'love's you.

The narc also projects his bad qualities onto you which is why they often accuse you of cheating (because they are cheating and therefore expect you to behave in the same way they do) or not being happy if you have male friends (because they are unable to have purely platonic relationships with the opposite sex- they see all women/people as supply and assume you do the same)

Armchair psychology here but it's how I understand it and it rings true for all of my previous narc relationships.

Thanks so much everyone. It has been really enlightening for me. There are a few other things that I wonder if they are all part of the same picture. What do you think?

• he says he doesn’t have a heart (joking but serious)
• he’s 40 but says he’s never been in love
• he is against keeping in touch with exes
• he is the type to indulge in food, enjoys gambling.

• he says he doesn’t have a heart (joking but serious)

Take this at face value, he probadly realises that he doesn't feel anything for anyone. Same with never being in love, Ex H believed he fell in love but he didn't love me, in the way normal people know love.

• he is against keeping in touch with ex

Ex H practiced scorched earth policy so that next victim will never be able to speak to previous partners.

• he is the type to indulge in food, enjoys gambling.

Narcs often have low boredom thresholds. Ex H would say he needed to do stuff to "feel alive". The theory is that they have emptiness inside so needs external thrills.

The best analogy I heard was that you are an object to an Narc, similar to new lamp. You can "love" the lamp and show it off to your friends. You genuinely like it's glamour and brightness, it suits your status and its admired...however over time you may get bored with it, especially if it needs maintenance then you feel let down and frustrated. If it breaks down completely and doesn't give you brightness it can make you angry so you will start to look for a replacement. You are fine to let it go (discard it) since it no longer suits your purpose and you start thinking that perhaps it was faulty all along and wasn't even that great. The next lamp will definitely be even better!!

I suppose I have found myself changing a bit around him and I sense his disapproval over things

Already?? You're only two months in and already you're changing WHO YOU ARE?

Really well put @lifebegins50

Oh dear

When I speak to my guy he usually makes me feel amazing. So it’s not all bad

How about trying how you feel speaking to him, when you are saying no?

Honestly, I would not try testing him out like this. He is likely very much more experienced at this game than you are.

You are caught and being reeled in.

I hope you see the light and do not waste a lot of your life with anyone who behaves like this.

Real love really doesn't bring this level of angst

Can narcissists love a child or a pet? Is it just romantic relationships that they struggle with?

They see everything/everyone as an accessory to themselves. The lamp metaphor above still applies in the case of children.

He is a massive narc. Even if he isn't this doesn't have an equal
Footing and that's the reason to sack it off

he says he doesn’t have a heart (joking but serious)

• he’s 40 but says he’s never been in love
• he is against keeping in touch with exes
• he is the type to indulge in food, enjoys gambling.

He said it all OP, absolutely no point hanging around. Just run