DIVORCING sulking H!

[jamaisjedors]

This is my fourth thread ! (Long-time mn-er.)

I initially started a thread reluctantly in December after my H ruined my birthday weekend (and 1st anniversay of my dad's death) by giving me the silent treatment all weekend to "punish me" for not being grateful enough for him coming away and buying me a present and a card.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

Thanks to some amazing posters I realised that H's behaviour (which was not at all a one-off) was abusive and unacceptable.

I prepared to leave him and got plans in place but got "hoovered" back in by H with promises of joint counselling, individual counselling for him, and regular "date nights". Unfortunately none of that changed the dynamic in our relationship : 2nd thread :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3498886-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking-part2?msgid=85957683

I started a 3rd thread in May when H and I had decided to separate :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3580872-LEAVING-sulking-H?msgid=88239005

and that's when things got nightmarish.

As everyone on here pointed out, the most dangerous time for women is when they decide to leave an abusive partner.

In a nutshell, H went missing, had an acute psychotic episode, was admitted to a psychiatric facility and is still in there now.

Staff at the hospital warned me H could be dangerous for me and advised me to move out asap which I did, in fear for my life.

Things now are on a reasonably even keel 2 months on but now the battle is managing H who is continuing his abusive behaviour and also protecting the DC (12 & 14) - H is expecting to get joint custody.

Thanks again to all the wonderful posters who have advised me, informed me, cheered me on, shared their experiences and generally been an invaluable source of support over the last 7-8 months.

It make me amazed that you survived living with him so long!! I guess you worked incredibly hard at placating him without ever realising.

Sleep well KOKO

Wow. Yes to getting his aggressive behaviour recorded if you can. He really isn't helping himself, is he? Pretty obvious that he's still not well if he's unable to maintain even the facade of being calm in front of child protection services.

Was the financial meeting the first time you've sat face to face and talked after he was in hospital? Apart from being finickity is he trying to shaft you financially or will he want to be seen to be fair so he can play the wronged husband Sounds like you were magnificent!

Yes get the woman who he was agressive to to report ...
Other than that, not surprised it left you shaken & anxious. especially as Haff says, it 's the first time in a very long time you have had to interlocute with your Abuser.

Wow! What a great time for his facade to slip and his true colours to show in front of witnesses! He truly is a misogynist, isn’t he? Odious man!

I'm not sure if the social worker will include his initial behaviour in her notes.

She wants to close the file because by the end of the interview (1h30) she thought there was hope and that he isn't "a dead-beat dad".

He wasn't physically agressive with her but his initial letter was very agressive and legally threatening and then when he arrived he was (as I can imagine) very hard and cold and full of contained anger.

However it would be good if it was on record for later in case it's needed (for example if exH continues with his line of me making everything up and being a hysterical anxiety-riddled fantasist).

Re: the financial meeting, as predicted, he is going into every single detail and applying every bit of law there is down to the last cent in his favour where he can. There's nothing illegal or even unethical, it's just never-ending and also there are areas where we could write off certain things and he definitely won't.

I had already prepared myself for him being totally uncompromising so it was not a surprise, just emotionally tough and obviously I have a lot to work on still as I didn't sleep at all really last night either, I was shaky and weepy once in bed (have to hold it together for the DC) and mind-racing etc.

I am so cross with myself for "letting him" have this power over me, but it just stirred up all the emotions from earlier in the year where I was scared for my life.

I agreed to doing 2 house valuation visits with him in the New Year, now I am not sure I can do it if it means a week of sleepless nights each time.

Have you looked into getting some counselling maybe to help you with the stress/lack of sleep? Your reactions seem a bit like PTSD. It wouldn't be unheard of with the pressure of keeping it together when dealing with him it all catches up with you later.

Why do you have to be there for the house valuation? He won't agree to anything you suggest anyway, or listen to your opinion so you might as well give it a miss or speak to the valuer separately on your own.

I agree about this sounding like c ptsd. I have this, it was horrible and took a lot of counselling and EMDR to help me through it

this guy is relentless... however, he seems to have the ability to demand all his rights, without accepting any of his responsibilities... disgusting cretin. Good luck OP

Dear @jamaisjedors, I have to thank you from the bottom of my heart. I write this message in the house that I share with my 3 dc, in a situation I could not have dared to hope for this time last year, and I feel like you have played a major part in allowing that to happen.
Relatively new to mumsnet last December, your initial 'sulking' thread was the first that caught my eye on the Relationships board. I was hooked by the 'sulking', as it is the best word to describe my stbxh's behaviour. Your situation rang so many bells for me - long marriage, children, grown man pouting and sulking over things I would expect my preschooler to get over with more decorum...Punished for saying you want to go to bed later than dh? Yep. Micromanaged over which way to cut the food in the kitchen? You bet. Making sure that it is always about him, regardless of the situation or needs of others? Yes again! Following you on your journey, I gained valuable insight into the possible ways things could pan out. Finally at the start of this November, I did what I had to do and announced my intention to separate. Cue a head spinning array of reactions - sobbing, "How dare you?", rage, begging, letters about what an asshole he has been, back to rage, more sobbing, etc. etc. ad nauseum. Thank God I was prepared for all of it, and the promises of change and making it up to me rang hollow even before his actions continued to prove he meant not a word of it. He continues to present himself as the consummate victim, as he always did. I just can't believe I fell for it for years and years, thinking that if only I showed more affection, understanding etc. etc. then maybe he wouldn't have to be so upset and disappointed by me. I am free, although it is going to take me a very long time to get over it now I see it for the trauma and abuse that it is. I hope things continue to get better and better for you and your family.
PS - the funniest accusation ever hurled at me was that he wondered aloud whether I was asexual as I didn't initiate intimacy with him very often. Yes, that must be it - not being mistreated on a daily basis No dude - I have no sexual feelings for YOU SPECIFICALLY - you made your bed and now I don't want to lay in it with you...

everythingbackbutyou great post.

well done everything KOKO.
Jamais, Is the house paid for, (is he paying the mortgage?)or is it rented? what is the plan re house? or is it just the belongings ?
Are there things you really want/what is the value/have you got anywhere to store things? is it worth the angst ?

Could you just walk through the house, & list just a few things, & say he can have the rest, or are there things that belonged to you before you got together with him, that you can claim as yours.

You may find that when you see the "precious" items that they are in reality, old, tired & valueless, other than sentimentally.
Is this a battle that is worth fighting ?

Wow @everythingbackbutyou you are amazing to have achieved all of that this year - so many strong strong women, I am in awe.

Slightly better night for me last night but awake at 5am with my heart and mind racing plus nightmares.

Re: finances : the house is paid off but exH has proof that he contributed more initially because we sold the house we were living in to finance the family home. The original house was in his name and so he gets the same percentage back that he put in.

To be fair, he did pay off the mortgage for it, although I paid all bills.

Tip to all, do not contribute "informally" to a house you are living in.

I wasn't earning much at the time so in the end I'm prepared to let it go (nothing I can do legally anyway).

Another thing that grated was that I STUPIDLY had a massive clear-out about a year ago and ditched a load of old bank statements from 20 years ago. Now the solicitor is asking us to prove what money we had before marriage.

If EXH can prove he had money in his name before marriage and I can't, he will get that back. ExH being the obsessive he is, has every single piece of paperwork so will doubtless claim back a sum (in Francs!) from that time whereas I can't.

Re : furniture. The solicitor has accepted the principle that at this stage if the furniture hasn't been shared out, then exH has property of it all and that will be taken into account with an estimation of value (approximate). Again, doubtless exH will say this estimate is too high and insist on getting an official valuation which may well add up to not very much at all.

The sticking point at the moment is that exH wants to separate our bank accounts from early May when he moved half the joint account to each of our individual accounts.

But he carried on using the joint account because he was admitted into hospital just after that and there is still stuff going in and out of it.

Plus I had sole charge of the children and only used my personal account whereas he didn't.

So that needs sorting but to be fair he has gone through every penny (euro!) spent and allocated to one or other of us so we can settle up.

But I don't think it's fair that I should pay for my new house and bills and the kids for 5 months AND contribute towards bills, insurance etc on the old house.

I don't have to go to the house valuations but I wanted to be there originally because I don't want exH talking the place down to get the price down (in his interest if he wants to buy it afterwards). He's already claiming estate agents vastly over-estimate prices. Also I kind of want to see if he is keeping the house in a reasonable state of repair (which he is obliged to do) although I'm pretty sure he is.

We'll see.

To be honest it's not even the financial stuff that has shaken me up because I can see he's not hiding anything and is being fair (in his own pernickety way) on the use of the money in the joint accounts.

I think it's just having to deal with him, be in the same room with him, even exchange glances with him, which seems to have brought all the trauma back up again.

I agree there is probably PTSD from what happened in May (fear for my life, for the kids etc.) plus longterm emotional damage from being in an abusive relationship for so long.

I'm planning on using the holidays to do another yoga course and get some sleep.

Would it also be fair to argue that you could have climbed higher in your career earlier and earned more had DH been more flexible with kids? He has shown his true colours with them.... You did what you had to do to look after them alone.

@justilou1 the argument about careers will come later, not until he "lets me" actually start the divorce process.

There is a special measure which applies to that type of situation and his lawyer asked on Monday if we were going to request a payment on that basis.

My lawyer said she wouldn't answer until we were actually proceeding with the divorce

I actually discussed this with exH hypothetically before.

He does earn a lot more than me but I also have revenue from property in the UK. Even with that he has a much higher earning potential so it is possible to ask for it.

OTOH I have always worked full-time and am higher up status-wise in the organisation than he is (but I earn less because it's the civil service payscale and he is on a different grade).

He did his Phd just before we had DS1. His career took off from then on, whereas mine stopped there (financially). But he would argue that with the high-up management role I have (in academia), I can't say that my career has been halted.

I'll talk to my lawyer again about it further down the line.

Just had a very polite email from exH about finances thanking me for sorting out cancelling bank cards etc and asking me when would suit me best for house valuation visits.

He ended the email saying that he found the meeting on Monday very upsetting and that it was very sad that we were meeting again in such difficult circumstances after everything we had built and shared together for 23 years.

I am refraining from pointing out that the reason we were in such difficult circumstances is because he insisted on it (his choice to make the finances a conflictaul formal appointment).

He also said he hoped things between us could calm down and why not go towards forgiveness and reconciliation.

This has obviously shaken me up. I agree with him about how sad it is and I think he genuinely is upset (he looked rough and the DC said he was "ill" and "not eating" yesterday when they saw him).

OTOH forgiveness, yes, down the line.

Reconciliation - NO WAY! This just shows me AGAIN that he still has no idea how bad things were for me in the relationship and is still (and always will be) in denial about the emotional abuse.

I guess this has been his position all along, there are some difficulties due to me not doing what he says but generally our relationship was good. Reality 1 and Reality 2 for anyone who has read the "Verbally Abusive Relationship" book which I highly recommend.

Ignore him. He's using emotional blackmail for his own purposes. Probably to soften you up so you don't demand your fair share. Remember everything he does and says has an 'ulterior motive', that is, a motive to benefit him.

And if he's 'ill' and 'not eating' it's not for loss of you (other than loss of control over you). It's the fear of what he may lose financially.

Yes. "Ill" and "not eating" to the extent of DC commenting are all part of the script and expect more especially over Christmas and New Year. Possibly involving the DC and/or others. All about control as you know.

It is difficult but you really need to harden your heart here. Try to avoid engaging in email especially when you both have lawyers to sort arrangements etc. Short answers if you must. That's the best thing for you, and in fact for him too at this point.

Don't be assuming anything about what he gets compared to what you get. Let the courts and solicitors sort that out.

The reason you feel emotional around him is because you feel he is stronger than you and in a lot of ways he is but....your way of being strong is more relevant to this process. Get in touch with the bank and get replaced all the past statements. Make a list of all the things that you feel weaker than him over and make a plan for overturning each individual item so you are as strong as him in hard evidence.
You probably won't but for now don't let him know there is no-way you will ever get back together with him. Work this. Keep him soft. It might work in your favour long term.

Is it worth contacting your bank in regards to historical statements? They may have a evidence of what direct debits were being paid?

I agree with the PP, he was trying to sweeten you up so that he gets an advantage on the house sale.

Don't fall for it Jamais,
Maybe you could send an email saying, "in terms of he hoped things between us could calm down and why not go towards forgiveness and reconciliation.
That if he was serous/honest, he would accept 50/50 split , in view of your jfinances included your rental income, your participation paying bills, (very likely more than the actual mortgage, & you doing every single thing for the DC. That nothing would make you happier than to close this episode asap.
Get it in writing ???

oops, "finances included your private rental income"

Mix56

agreed.. do not trust him

Ooooh he’s playing a good game. He’s hitting you where it hurts - in the children. They are the only weapons he has with which to manipulate you now, Jamais. Of course he’s going to hang around looking like someone bitch-slapped Bambi in their presence. He’s offered you two “reasonable” solutions:- financial settlement that goes the way HE deems fair, OR reconciliation. Fuck!!! He thinks he’s Moses and he’s parted the sea, you’re standing in the middle and you’re waiting for the waves to crash in from either side. There are more than two options, the kids are people, not weapons, you are MUCH too smart to fall for this again.
I think this is why you’re having nightmares again. The puppeteering has started up again. You are understandably resentful that he treated the social worker abusively, (like he used to treat you) and rather than put it on file, she has chosen to suck it up like every other apologist for his behaviour and tell you to your face that because he calmed down at the end, she has hope. I am certain that this incident made you feel helpless and angry, and brought back memories of his charming, manipulative nature, and how easily swayed people are.

Have read all the threads Jamais but not commented as there were a lot of posters with more experience of this stuff. But just had a thought regarding your earlier post about the shaky reaction to seeing him or dealing with him, and kind of reinforced by your latest post.
When people say you are being strong part of that is actually about continuing to resist him. Someone else in this situation might end up going back to the abusive partner. You haven’t faltered once. But seeing him in the meeting, even if you don’t have to say much, you are still playing an active role - you are having to resist him.
In a way it seems like history because the divorce is proceeding and you have been really decisive, but in another way, every time you meet him is another occasion where you have to resist going backwards (even if that seems so unlikely from a rational point of view). So I imagine meeting in person for the valuation could be extremely draining.