Horrific family fallout

[blackcat2345]

So I have just been witness to a tsunami of resentment and anger aimed at DM from DB and SiL,

To cut a long story short DB lives 3 hours away and rarely makes trip down to visit DM or us. DM now has care needs and one of the serious options is her coming to live with me which is 30 mins away.

So DB and his family have been here this weekend, primarily to discuss care options and also to visit DM who was seriously ill last month.

So when we were altogether we DM said she had considered options and we (her and I) had agreed living here (in the absence of options offered by DB) seemed a sensible solution.

Well that totally opened the floodgates. SiL started crying and said how upset she as her and DB are seem as the 'poor relations' and how I am favoured over DB. "She has always loved your children more than ours". Really brutal stuff.

DB then launched into what can only be described as a full on rant at DM recanting every 'misdeamour' and wrong doing over the last 20 years.

DM was utterly pole axed and just walked out.

DB turned tail immediately afterwards and left with his family.

I am left here wondering just WTF to do and utterly shocked by what happened.

OP I wouldn't make contact now.

I'd leave it between your DM and DB, unless she is too frail for that. How is she feeling now?

re the money saved - I think also a lot of people who are obsessed with "fairness" in inheritance simply see it as equal money. So it might be that your DB would see it as fairer if your DM went in a care home and then the two of you split what is left. Like he isn't concerned about the amount so much as the perceived fairness.

it's just a possibility.

if you don't mind me asking, are you actually close to him? Sometimes family is a lot less important than we think it is, or than we are conditioned to think it is!

Easy. I have crazy family and such blow ups are normal.

You must do almost nothing. You must be completely unemotional.

I am almost certain you do not need to send an email.

Your brother and your mother had a row. They used you as a weapon in their row. It is actually nothing to do with you. If they want to make up then they can contact each other and make up. You stay right out of it. I mean completely out of it. If your mum tries to talk to you about the row, shut it down and tell her to talk to DB not you. Same if your DB tries to drag you in.

No matter who was right or wrong (and I've no doubt there's a lot of shades of grey in this one) the practicalities for you remain unchanged. DM is moving to you. That's it. The row changes nothing material.

Maybe you could send the odd email informing DB of the latest in the practical changes. No emotion. Mum is moving in on this date type thing.

Do not talk about finances with DB. At all. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Refer him to your mother if he wants to know about her finances. He can fuck off if he wants to know about yours.

As the remote child he may well think you are fleecing your mother. Don't bother arguing it. Don't justify yourself. Just don't ever talk money or assets. He wants to know about his mother's financial and asset choices then he has to talk yo her. I recommend a thick skin, set phrases to cut off money talk and being hard as nails on this one. Any money talk or emotional talk about the mummy-son relationship will only fuel the fires. Give it no oxygen.

The adult child in lots of cases when looking after the parent will be receiving the attendance allowance and feathering thier own nest with regards to inheritance monies

What that £80 odd quid a week?

Have you any idea how much a care home place costs per week? In my opinion the person doing the caring should get all the inheritance not some other relative who has done sweet FA for years.

Wow, so not only was it not a discussion but you'd already decided to sell her house and invest part of the sale in an annexe to your own property?! I would get legal advice on this, there is a thread on here about someone who did this and it didn't work out well for them.

What 'responsibility' do you want your brother to take, OP? That sounds rather hostile. He's not going to move back and your mother is not going to go there. Are you going to ask him for a financial contribution? You sound like you really resent him moving away I don't know many people who returned to their home town after University tbh, I'm not sure what you were expecting there.

I don't think there are any easy answers to this one, it's gone a bit far now. They will never feel included in the decision-making process and I don't think you have any intention of doing so.

I'd give everyone a bit of space to come to terms with it, although whether that will change anything in the long run is doubtful which is a real shame.

Chic..nope, DB knew DM couldn't stay in her own home at that obviously the money would have to be invested one way or the other. He also knew that coming to me was an option, but what is obvious now hadn't considered the practicalities of her accommodation. I accept that he is hurt he wasn't fully consulted, that will change.

As PP have advised I will stay out of it now, forge ahead with plans to have DM move here and try not to get embroiled in their issues.

Be super strict on yourself to stay out of the drama. You obviously have loads of simmering resentment yourself. It will be easy to let yourself get dragged into bitching sessions. Probably cathartic and rewarding in the moment but damaging in the long run. Be sure to have a firm word with yourself when you do slip up and fall into the drama.

what about the elderly parent spending a month with each adult child and family.

Why should the elderly person, who is in poor health, have to forever be packing up their things and moving from place to place? If the adult children don't live very near to each other, how will doctors' and hospital appointments be managed? What about the elderly person's social life, which will be continually disrupted?

He hasn't offered to care for her

He was never given the chance

he just wants money

Where does it say he is after money

I think blackcat2345 you need to step back and look at your own behaviour.

Your dB does a 6 hour round trip to discuss your dms care needs only to find they have already been discussed and it has been presented as a fait accompli to him.

You werent interested in what he had to say then. Why are you interested now

What’s changed

You come across as someone who has either little insight into how their actions and words effect others or you are doing this on purpose and like to watch the ensuing fireworks.

Also I doubt many people who go to university keep all their friends from school.

Even less if they meet their future spouse, go to their home town and move in with them. I cannot see the issue which you seem to think speaks volumes

It could be that when he left uni his life moved on and those friends that he left 3 years before back home had not.

This I think is the build up of many years of resentment he has felt.

Being the Golden Child did you for one minute have any empathy for your brother that his father and role model had left and he was left with a mother who favoured his sister and had no time for him.

You might have lived in the same house but you were obviously not treated the same.

Maybe when he met SIL he got welcomed into her family with open arms and they actually treated him like he mattered

I stand by my statement that dm is manipulating the situation.

There was no need to say his help wasn’t needed as you had it all sorted. Especially as you deem it not to be sorted as you still want a discussion.

The Christmas thing is probably because dm would never would go to her ds’s place so Ds didn’t feel welcome at dms.

Also if there is an underlying current of resentment why would they subject themselves to feeling more and more ignored

Ok thanks Oliver, that's really helpful

The whole golden child bit. Do you think the golden child chooses the role and enjoys it? My brothers would probably call me the golden child, but I think I have just had shit tons of responsibility for both parents all my life, while they don't care or get in touch or make any effort. I think blaming the person who does the most isn't fair- someone has to step up, and often it's the daughter. And in my case, for no monetary reward, I wouldn't want it in any case! Sounds like just another stick to beat you with op, you don't sound like you have done anything wrong, just tried to sort your mum out. Strength to you.

"But she goes out of her way to put money into my niece and nephew's saving's accounts precisely"

I come from a toxic family and this is one of the arguments my parents use to try and claim they don't have favourites - they're wrong!

I'm the eldest of 3, I was favoured by my father (although that turned out to be with ulterior motives), sister is favoured by mum and bro barely gets a look in though is slightly more preferred by dad.

Reality is irresponsible sister has been bailed out financially umpteen times, has saved a fortune on childcare because she had no qualms about using mum for this and mum was willing to provide it at drop of a hat whenever needed sometimes for weeks at a time including overnights where sister hasn't even visited.

I also know of another toxic family where the narc parent upon becoming unwell enough to need care this led to an awful lot coming out where it became known they had been stirring shit between their own DC for decades! Total shitstorm when it all came out!! Result was NOBODY wanted to be their carer then and they were left to it!

It could be they're (b and sil) just being grabby/selfish of course but these feelings rarely occur in a vacuum or with no good reason.

I avoid my parents because of history of abuse and mother not believing me re csa, also because of constant criticism of not only me but dd too - that's not healthy for anyone!

So you need to seriously consider if your mothers treatment of b, sil and their children is a factor in why they don't visit often.

You reap what you sow.

My parents bemoan the lack of attention from bro and I and our children but it's the direct result of their own behaviour over many decades.

I'm reminded of a conversation I had with a nurse while I was doing my own training. She was trained but we were about the same age.

She was criticising an elderly patient's children for not visiting often and not staying very long when they did visit. She was viewing the patient only as a sick, frail and elderly patient but she wasn't considering that the patient hadn't always been those things.

I think with hindsight I wonder if I picked up on something in the patients demeanour or something because we later found out she'd been an abusive mother to the point her children had ended up in foster care, even as this supposedly "poor little old lady" while caring for another patient in next bed this lady I think didn't realise there was someone else present and she launched a vicious verbal attack on her daughter, criticising all her life choices and even the fact she'd brought the "wrong" flowers as a gift on that visit. The daughter left in tears, I was busy but luckily another nurse spotted her and took her off for a cuppa and a chance to calm down somewhere private before leaving.

You admit yourself you don't know the facts of what's occurred between your DM, b and sil and their children, so you'd be wise to try and remain relatively neutral.

I do think it was unreasonable to totally make all the decisions regarding your DMs ongoing care without even discussing with them.

That's just further proof that they're not afforded the same consideration and respect as you and your family are.

Also honestly if your DM is at a point of needing 24/7 care it was a foolish move on your part as you will need a break at some point and if you piss off b & sil this early on they're not exactly going to feel particularly open to providing respite care are they?

"And if DB made more of an effort to visit with his DC, the emotional bond would be stronger" the emotional bond between mother and child is first developed in childhood when the parent has the power and responsibility to start that. Your DM hasn't always been older, unwell and unable to visit your brother. Effort with an emotional bond works both ways, if she didn't visit them while she was still able, rejected Christmas invitations etc it's as much if not more her to blame as your brother.

There's only so much rejection or criticism that anyone can take before they naturally protect themselves by limiting contact with the person doing the rejection/criticism. We see it all the time on mn and posters repeatedly and constantly subjected to such verbal/emotional abuse are advised to limit/cut contact precisely to protect their and their family's mental health.

"Sometimes family pushes you too far." Exactly

"and has been in no position to help with childcare for many years." By that do you mean she helped you with childcare in the past?

And your brother having moved away is not a good enough reason to exclude him anyway, lots of adult children move away from "home" for damn good reasons especially these days. They go where their work is, or where their significant other is from or where there's better schools/childcare/opportunities for children, to access affordable housing or even to get away from an unhealthy even toxic family of origin.

With all the methods there are for staying in touch now too you & your mother really have no excuse why you couldn't have kept him informed.

It seems you both expect him to do all the running purely because he chose to move away.

"If anyone on here thinks that someone who is landed with the care of elderly parents is “the golden child”, then they’re seriously deluded." Actually as someone not only from a toxic family but who also worked in elderly care for many years that's exactly what I've seen happen.

"DB moved to be with SiL straight from uni which in itself speaks volumes" wow! In what way exactly? This is a very normal thing to do and in no way excuses his being poorly treated by you or your DM.

"To add DB would never acknowledge that's where the cracks stem from" are you blaming db for this?!

"I think your dm sounds very manipulative and is doing her best to drive a wedge between you and your dB and you are going along with it because you don’t want to rock the boat." Totally agree

"so no clue where that came from" actually it came from comments you made!

"How DM didn't ever want to spend Xmas with them (just to add they never wanted to come here)."

"Some of it may be true"

"I can't answer all the questions on whom visited whom and when."

"Never any invite for us to spend Xmas at theirs." I think you need to be prepared to possibly discover that invitations were extended via your mother and she rejected them and didn't tell you.

"Nothing wrong with moving Away from home - I did it. Sadly at the same time DB also cut all ties with his existing friends" completely irrelevant and actually none of your business!

I don't know where people are assuming it's DEFINITELY about money when he didn't even mention that.

For now - you butt out!

You admit you don't actually know what's gone on in their relationship AND YET you clearly take your mothers side!

You're hostile towards your brother and that will not help anything.

Stay out of it! And that includes not indulging your mother slating your brother.

Gosh graphista sorry for your family toxins. As for your take on op’s situation need to think - one thing for sure you’ve made me think about my own family/sibling dynamic !

There is an awful lot of projection going on in this thread.

Tinkly

Please if you have kids who move away, make some effort yourself and don’t expect it to be all one way

Surely, this depends on the situation. OP says her mother is very frail, and has been for "many years", so it is perfectly possible that OPs DM has not deliberately been side-lining the DB by not visiting- perhaps she has been too frail to travel? It's not the only explanation, of course.

Surely the op’s Mum is the one making the choice as to where she now lives ? The Op hasn’t made all the decisions without including her db. Their Mum has been seriously ill, yet he hadn’t visited, or asked at any point whether she would like to live with him. Their Mum has decided to live with her daughter who has offered to have her.

I don’t think this is a fait accompli, I think the db has been very hands off, dumped everything on the op, and is now offended, in a childish way that his Mum wants to live with her, as he sees that as Mum having a favourite, rather than Mum not wanting to move far, and going where she is wanted.

Op it seems as though both you and your Mum maybe don’t get on with your brother’s wife, is that the case ? It does sound as though she has inflamed the situation. Is she usually a nice person ?

and try not to get embroiled in their issues.

I think it's a bit late for that don't you?

@Melroses

No, it really doesn't. If you are the one at with all the information, then you keep everyone reliably informed. You can't do anything about what they do, but you can make sure that everyone knows what is going on and keep lines of communication open.

I disagree. The least you can do when you're far away is call and show your concern. The lines of communication go both ways.

You don't sit back and wait for updates like you're a VIP and you're too big a person to call.

The person dealing with hospital visits and everything else has enough to deal with. If my Dsis is doing all the running around during a period I'm not able to, I call and thank her. It's our parents and I personally feel bad if another sibling is left to do so much.

One of the benefits of not being an only child is not doing all the parental care on your own. If your siblings do sweet FA... then they need to examine their own conscience quite frankly.

When my DF was ill, we often had a rota to ensure he saw at least one of us every day.... which was usually us sisters, not my brothers.

The person who visited would give an update if something new arose, but it was an effort from all of us. When I knew Dsis was going to the hospital...I would check in with her to see how things were.

If you can't be arsed to call, then you it shows how bothered you are.

OP... if anyone should apologise...it's your SIL for her explosion in front of the DC.

For now don't say anything to your DB and SIL.
I would check that my DM was okay after all that.

One pp upthread mentioned her and her Dsis thinking each other was the golden child. I've had that with my own DC, each saying the other is my favourite.

Absolutely untrue. I don't have a favourite child. They're both wrong.

Not sure why op is being somewhat berated here..from the thread

OP looks after DM regularly

DB rarely visits or calls

Both GCs give same birthday/xmas money/will 50-50

OP makes big commitment to house DM..hassle..responsibililty..organisation..care responsibility...DH doing extra work...

DB kicks off..very poor form especially in front of a frail DM abd GC.
DB is being totally unreasonable and a bit of a shit.

@SirVixofVixHall

It does sound as though she has inflamed the situation.

I think you could be right.

The issue being discussed was your DMs care... I don't see that as her business, unless it was impact her I.e your DM was going to live with them.

My PILS caring needs are not my business and are for my DH, BILS and SIL to deal with.

I can speak as one who has been in a very similar situation, I think you just have to accept that they feel how they feel and let them get on with it. His relationship with your DM is between the two of them.

My DB views me as the Golden Child. Its not as simple as he thinks- he has caused a lot of hurt and done some awful things in the past. And whilst this has been forgiven, the impact on relationships doesn't just go away. Its not that I am more loved, but there is more mutual respect and trust between me and our parents than between him and our parents. And I have been there to support my parents during my father's serious illness (he now has significant mobility issues to this, with quite a few physical health problems too) and subsequent early onset dementia. My brother was nowhere to be seen for the most part (he found it too stressful to see my father in hospital, for instance) and offers little in the way of practical or emotional support. He does snipe from the sidelines though.

He alienated many people in our family- in particular our grandmother, who he never reconciled with too. Our grandmother disinherited him- again, this was judged to be my fault- nothing to do with his actions or his refusal to apologise for what he had done.

My brother and SIL live about an an 1.25-1.5 hours drive from our parents. I was about 25 minutes away. When it became clear that their home was unsuitable for DF's mobility problem and DM needed more support, the obvious answer was for them to move closer to us. DP's would have known no-one where DB lives as there friends are all around here. BD/SIL do not have the room for them and their home would not be suitable for DF anyway. Add in that DM & SIL don't get on terribly well and it was clear that it was not a good idea.

This situation was not discussed in detail with DB, as the options were clear- move closer to me, closer to DB or into suitable accommodation close to where they were but would need extra support. They didn't want to move to where DB lives, so whatever they chose of the other two options would have little impact on him and he would not have to provide any practical support. So the decision was about what our parents wanted and what support I was prepared to give, not what DB thought was a good idea. So he was consulted in a detailed way, perhaps we should have done but it didn't really seem to be his decision to make.

DB was hugely resentful when our parents moved into a cottage on our property. They sold their house and kept the capital (minus some money my mother spent on decorating to her taste and alterations to one of the bathrooms- unlikely to add value to the cottage as decorating was fairly recent, the only purpose was to be more to their taste). I do not stand to gain financially from this and do the day to day support, both practical and emotional. DM does do some after school childcare (as in supervises), which due to distance, she could never do consistently for DB/SIL. They are closer to our DC, as they have always seen more of them. In terms of gifts and so on, both sets of DGC are treated the same.

Our parents have never spent christmas at DB/SIL's since their DC's were born. DF was ill before their eldest was born, and his mobility problem means accessing their flat is extremely difficult for him (and they don't have any room for them to stay)- they have always been welcome to come to DP's but have always chosen not to. They only visit if mum or I will go and collect them as well as take them home again (neither have a valid licence). I do call when something serious or significant crops up, but DB rarely call unless they want something- but blame me when they don't feel kept up to date. In fact, they are resentful about the whole situation, which I find baffling.

I do think there's a lot of jealously about help I have had (ignoring all the help I give DP's) and they think I am benefitting financially or will do. All in all, they resent any benefits they perceive, yet don't see that I have to provide all the support whilst they do nothing (and I know what they could do in practical terms is very limited).

I have come to the conclusion that there is nothing I can do to change their minds. It's between them and DP's what kind of relationship they have and I know that I am doing the right thing by supporting our parents, so I will continue.

Also baffled that OP is being berated

And having “golden child” assumptions made about her.

@Graphista
'I also know of another toxic family where the narc parent upon becoming unwell enough to need care this led to an awful lot coming out where it became known they had been stirring shit between their own DC for decades! Total shitstorm when it all came out!! Result was NOBODY wanted to be their carer then and they were left to it!'

that sounds very messy, do you know how it worked out for the elderly person?

'I avoid my parents because of history of abuse and mother not believing me re csa'

I am so sorry to hear that it's so damaging to be brushed off when something so serious and traumatising has happened to you, it compounds the damage done by the abuse:(
(sorry for thread derailment)