Fiancé just said he's only marrying me because I want it and he wants a prenuptial agreement

[Willowcat77]

Disclosure: I have ASD but very high functioning.

DP and I have been together for nearly 3 years and living together since last September. We both have grown up children. I live in his house. We got engaged earlier this year but it has been very low key - no ring, he's not told many people and he never seems interested in discussing dates or plans etc.

I love him intensely and I was the first to propose. He initially reacted with silence and it felt very awkward and I was more hurt than I'd ever been in my life . Then a week later he asked me. I said yes but only if you really mean it! I don't want to be married out of pity, but he reassured me he meant it.

This was months ago, but still no discussion or anything about the wedding. This morning I said we need to talk about the wedding and I asked him whether his heart was really in it. He said he did want to marry me, but only to make me happy, because he loves me, but he isn't really interested in marriage and never has been.

But this isn't strictly true because he did propose to his ex years ago but she refused. When I pointed out this contradiction he said he only asked her because they had children.

He then unexpectedly said he would need me to sign a prenuptial agreement as he is much better off then me and marriage is a risk if you split up. He said he has lots to lose, unlike me. (I want to point out that despite being on a much lower wage than him I do contribute at least £200 per month and also buy lots of things to make his house and garden nicer. Also, I do have my own house to sell, once I have sorted out some legal issues with my ex, and then we will buy our own house together, so am not actually a pauper!)

I'm now very confused and don't know what to do. Marriage is important to me but it feels horrible to think he is only getting married to please me. Him saying this has taken the joy out of it. How can I plan a wedding knowing his heart isn't in it and he's not really interested?

Maybe I should leave him, but the thought of living without him breaks my heart, I love him so much. Maybe I should get married and sign his weird prenuptial agreement, but always know I have dragged him into it or unwittingly emotionally blackmailed him into doing it? This makes me feel terrible.

Or maybe I should say let's not get married then and just carry on living together? I could do this, but the knowledge he didn't want to marry me would always be there.

I have exasperated him for being emotional about this. We're going to talk about it again after work. Please can you give me some feedback based on what I've said? Thank you x

I think that you should have a prenup before marriage to ringfence his own money but also to ringfence yours

Do not put the proceeds of your house as a deposit unless you have a deed of trust set out that will ensure you get your deposit back if you split.

What's good for him is also good for you.

I actually think he is being very reasonable.

However badly he is saying it, listen to what he is saying:

"He then unexpectedly said he would need me to sign a prenuptial agreement as he is much better off then me and marriage is a risk if you split up. He said he has lots to lose, unlike me. (I want to point out that despite being on a much lower wage than him I do contribute at least £200 per month and also buy lots of things to make his house and garden nicer. Also, I do have my own house to sell, once I have sorted out some legal issues with my ex, and then we will buy our own house together, so am not actually a pauper!)

I'm now very confused and don't know what to do"

He is protecting the interests of his children. I would gladly sign the prenup and keep assets separate (you need to protect the interests of your children, too).

He does love you. He is not talking about love, but the contractual side of what marriage actually means. All marriages in UK are in community of property. So honour his concerns by reassuring him that no, you don't want a claim on his accumulated assets and you understand that he wants his children protected. However, talk about life interest or perhaps a small lump sum in the even of you being widowed. I would go and see a solicitor and draw up terms agreeable to both of you, perhaps put his house in trust for his children.

The upper classes are a lot more brisk about money. All these things are talked about very clearly and lawyers are worth their weight in gold in terms of trusts and IHT. There is NO WAY ANYONE not related through blood, gets between my children and family assets. Not a chance.

Is there any chance that you're both thinking similarly in terms of the future, just looking at it differently?

Reads like you're thinking of marriage quite romantically; he's a bit more practical (doesn't "need" to be married) but is happy to go for it if you want. Admittedly he doesn't sound the biggest flowers & hearts romantic, but if he's honest about seeing a future with you, just not desperate to wed, that sounds ok but to me.

Then the pre-nup is eminently sensible given you've both got money / assets coming in to the relationship. Each persons contribution may not be 50%, and that might be ok. You've got children to think of. Maybe a pre-nup itself isn't the right document - but certainly a conversation, documented, your wills updated, mortgage / house ownership tenancy arrangement reflecting what you agree.

He sounds somewhat lukewarm about marriage, and if I were in a relationship and had children from a previous relationship I wanted to leave my assets to, so would I.

The two of you evidently both see it in different ways. You're seeing it as the ultimate relationship commitment, he's thinking about it in terms of the legal implications. Neither of you are wrong, though the legalities are always relevant whereas the view you hold is dependent on individual feelings.

But I think that's why there's the disconnect, and more communication is in order.

No way he should marry you. I certainly won't marry again and my kids will always be my primary concern. I see no reason to risk what I've spent a lifetime building up to chance, and yes it is chance. With 50% of marriages failing you can get utterly rinsed depending upon your solicitors skills and the judge. I'm avoiding that altogether as are many men. Just be happy with what you have and if that's not enough....then you can always leave.

Imagine it from his children's point of view - and your children's too.

Say one of you dies, as a married couple you leave it all to your spouse, and then they remarry. The assets from the original families are gone, and those children could potentially inherit nothing from their parents - no money, but more importantly nothing sentimental either.

Blended families need lots of thought, and contracts in place.

I do agree with pre nups in cases like this. I would hate to think that if dh and I split up and took away half this house each, that he would remarry and then his share of the money went to his new wife. That money should go to his/our children not to his new wife and any children she may have.

There are many threads about this on mn and lots of people have been left really hurt by it. Best for all to protect your individual assets for your own children, rather than share everything.
I do think it’s completely different for couples who are much younger/just starting out/couples just about to start a family though and I don’t really think pre nups have a place then.

"Marriage is about so much more than romance and at your stage in life with grown up children and your own property you should be able to see this".

I would agree with you normally here but the OP is on the autistic spectrum. This makes her views on relationships romanticised and that can in turn make her far more vulnerable when it comes to romantic relationships generally speaking.

PeoplewithASDcan havespecificdifficultiesthatmayimpacton aromanticrelationship,suchas:
Sensorydifficultieswithgrooming,or toleratingphysicalaffection

Understandingwhatbehavioursare appropriateinvarioussettings,suchas whenonadate 

Understandingother’sintentions,which canleaveapersonwithanASD vulnerabletomisinterpreting friendlinessorbeingusedinarelationship.

to name but three alone.

What are the characteristics that men find attractive in a woman with Asperger’s syndrome? The attributes can be similar to the characteristics women find appealing in a man with Asperger’s syndrome, especially the degree of attentiveness. The woman’s social immaturity may be appealing to those men who have natural paternal and compassionate qualities. There can be an appreciation of her physical attractiveness and admiration for her talents and abilities. Unfortunately, women (and sometimes men) with Asperger’s syndrome are not very good at making character judgments or identifying relationship predators. Women with Asperger’s syndrome often have low self-esteem, which can affect their choice of partner in a relationship. They can be the victim of various forms of abuse.

If I were you I'd keep the pre-nup bit and the marriage bit separate.

If you are going to sell your house and combine households, particularly if you have very different incomes, then it would be sensible to have some kind of legal agreement about what happens if you split up, whether you get married or not. I would talk to him about that as one topic.

Then separately you need to take some time to think about how you feel about the marriage situation. It's something that means something to you emotionally, less so to him. He is doing it to make you happy, which I think sounds nice: it's not the same as marrying you out of pity. It's just saying that the piece of paper/ceremony doesn't mean much to him. I would want to make 100% sure if getting married that he loves you and wants to spend the rest of his life with you, as that's what marriage means to me. If he wants that (and just doesn't need a marriage to formalise it) then I think the ball is in your court whether you decide to go for the marriage (knowing he will likely be less interested in the details of the day - but doubtless will still have a lovely day together) or decide that actually his love/commitment is enough without marriage.

I definitely wouldn't assume that being lukewarm about marriage means being lukewarm about you. E.g. my sister and her partner both didn't want to get married, but did want to commit to staying together forever and building a family together - bringing our wider families together. They did it by having a big party to celebrate the 10 year anniversary of them being a couple - which was a bit like a wedding (and effectively an announcement that there wouldn't be a wedding, but that they were together for good). It doesn't mean they love each other any less (having now been together over 20 years). Each couple just has to find something that works for both of them.

At that age I wouldn’t want to risk my pension, care home fees, children’s inheritance etc so I can see where he’s coming from.

But at the same time I wouldn’t marry someone who was so negative about the whole thing.

He doesn't sound too keen on marriage but he is obviously very keen to stay with you or he wouldn't have agreed to it in the first place. I can understand that you are hurt by his lack of enthusiasm and the prenup but in a lot of ways he is just being practical. I don't think that marrying you to please you is a bad reason to be honest.

He doesn't sound keen to marry you at all and I think you are sticking your head in the sand about this. He has considered it and has thought of all the risks involved and so has set you a condition which would protect him. Otherwise, he sounds pretty happy with the status quo - he already has children and its nice for him to live with you without any need for the commitment of marriage. But he wants to keep you happy so he has considered it.

Do you really want to drag an unwilling man into marriage? Why do you even want to do that? Or sign a pre-nup? If marriage is important to you then it might be better to meet someone else, otherwise just enjoy what you have together.

And an adult contributing £200 a month to their own keep. Well, thats a bargain. Perhaps if you shift the financial imbalance, it will make you seem more of a prospect for marriage to him? Is there anywhere that you can live on £200 a month for all housing and utilities costs? Does that include food? You have let this imbalance happen to you, so I don't think you should be surprised when he is unwilling to change the arrangement to one (marriage) which would require an equal ownership of assets.

I would agree with you normally here but the OP is on the autistic spectrum. This makes her views on relationships romanticised

he woman’s social immaturity may be appealing to those men who have natural paternal and compassionate qualities

What a load of bigoted crap.

Prenups are fine. They are separate to emotional stuff, so don't mix the two. Fair enough, some people don't care and that's their choice but where people do - dont take it personally. Just ensure you keep what ends up being yours and he keeps whats his.

You do pay towards the current house but it sounds more like a level of maintenance costs not capital.

hhhmmm at 50 and 55 I have to kind of agree with him about wanting to protect his assets as he has kids and if he dies before you there's a possibility they will get nothing. I wouldn't want to marrying someone who only wanted to get married for my sake though

Sounds very sensible for you to both have a pre-nup to ring fence previous assets for your children.

I'm with your DP on this. DH and I got married eventually but for tax purposes. I am not in the least romantic. We got married in a registry office with just my dad and our PA as witnesses and our DD along for the fun. I wore jeans.

He has children from his first marriage with whom he has no contact. Our wills are very tight as I would hate anything that I have to go to his sons and not to our daughter.

Why on earth do you want to get married?

I can understand his point of view.

Is your £200 contribution for rent, bills and food?

First point: I don't necessarily believe this is what Mumsnet likes to refer to as a DP problem. He hasn't lied. He's upfront about the fact that he neither wants nor sees the need for marriage, but is still willing to put his own feelings aside to marry you - because he knows this is important to you. I'd view that as a good thing.

On the point of the technicalities, I don't think he's being cold and soulless, but showing good common sense. On that point, there's a common misconception that pre-nups are not worth the paper they're written on in the UK and that's because for many years this was true. But there has been a shift. Courts are taking more and more notice of them these days, particularly in circumstances where both partners work and one partner hasn't spent a number of years raising children. You both already have adult children, and your DP may well feel he would need to consider any provisions he makes for them. Given he doesn't even want marriage in the first place I think that's a fair request.

A pre-nup would also protect your own assets. You have a house, which you seem willing to sell as a contribution to household finances. Maybe have a talk with him and a financial/family lawyer about the practical implications of this. It might be worth hanging onto it and letting it out as a future investment. Either way, if you were to sell, a pre-nup would help protect your own investment and your share in the marital assets. Another win on both sides.

Marriage seems really important to you OP and you may want to explore the reasons for this. Would you be happy to live together and carry on as you are? If not, what is it you think you would gain from marriage that cohabiting as a couple wouldn't provide?

Then there are the legalities surrounding what happens should the unthinkable happen: if either of you should become ill or incapacitated and very difficult decisions needed to be made in terms of the wellbeing of the other. And if one of you were to die, what would the situation be relating to next of kin: who registers the death, is permitted to make funeral arrangements, etc? Any ambiguity surrounding these issues only makes a deeply painful situation very much worse. Marriage automatically grants you both this right as each other's legal next of kin. Without this legal position, where would you stand?

For me, these latter points would be the most serious concerns in deciding between marriage or not-marriage. Is this the issue for you, or are there other factors at play here?

You need to be honest with yourself, and with him. And I think perhaps you both need a frank conversation about the pros and cons of the situation, and (with legal advice if necessary) come to an informed decision which is the will of you both, not one person wanting something and the other capitulating.

I hope this achievable, and wish you both good luck.

It doesn’t really sound like he wants to marry you to be honest. Him asking for a prenup though when he has children isn’t odd or a bad thing to do. I’d want to do the same if I was ever to remarry when I already have children, it’s sensible.

One of my mum’s friend’s was engaged (they are 70s with grown up children), they both had assets to protect which they wanted to be passed down to their children. Unfortunately one of them was more keen than the other on protecting what was theirs and they ended up breaking up over it. He didn’t do anything wrong, it was just a shame she took it so personal.

I think he's being sensible and you should get some legal advice. This will protect you too if you sell your house and buy together. It may not seem 'romantic' but as you are older and he has kids I do think this is the right thing for him to do. Do you need to get married at all?

He sounds sensible to me, as well as honest, savvy, fair, forthright, and a caring dad. I think you’ve got a good’un there. Ok, he is not exactly Mr Romantic, but that’s often overrated anyway.

I’d advise both of you to get legal opinions before merging your finances. You both have money/assets and kids, after all.

I agree with all of the above.

Do you still want to marry someone who you feel you're dragging up the isle?

I think you would both benefit from a pre-nup -- you also have your own house and adult children you presumably want to benefit with an inheritance?

And I only got married because my partner really wanted to. I had not the slightest interest in marriage, and had said no to several proposals. I was entirely upfront about the fact that I loved him, I was committed to him, but I would much rather not have married at all. I don't see a problem with that, and I was certainly not going to change my entire character into someone who thought that her wedding day was going to be the most important day of her life, and went around the place fussing about bouquets and favours. I told him I would if he really wanted to, and to organise the registry office, and I'd show up.

Our relationship has always been consumingly important to me. The fact that we married is not.