Just another MN cynic or are these red flags?

[Strawberryblondereally]

NC’d. Divorced 2 years ago and have been dating with various success. Met my DP 10 weeks ago and have been overwhelmed by my feelings....He has been everything I could have hoped for. We have seen each other most days since meeting initially if even just for a coffee during lunch, the sex is the best I’ve ever had, we have so much in common and he makes me smile so much....

I’m a MN veteran and have read about narcissists and the like over the years so am quite attuned to the signs....I haven’t wanted my DP to meet my DC yet as I thought it a bit early but he was very keen from the off. He has DC too. It was my DC bday and I’d mentioned in passing to him that I’d forgotten to pick her up cupcakes and an hour later he turned up at my house unannounced and delivered 48 Lola’s cupcakes. My DC opened the door to him....it was all quite awkward and I didn’t know what to do....now I know this was a generous act but I stressed that I didn’t want him meeting my DC yet and he just totally ignored it....when I confronted him later about it he accused me of being shut off as a result of my marriage breakdown....I’m not at all and my marriage ended amicably....

I’ve spoken to friends and they say he has red flags everywhere which I’ve probably just ignored to be frank....he’s lavished me with expensive gifts, taken me to fancy restaurants, holidays etc all in 10 weeks which I thought was just generosity but my friends think is alarming....he’s also talking about us living together and getting married this year which sounds ridiculously soon to me but each time I say that he gets really upset and accuses me of not loving him....

Am I being cynical here? Might this guy just be a gudun and I’m allowing my paranoia to creep in?

@justilou1 - what do you mean by a 'deep Google search'? Do you mean search other places other than the usual Google, LinkedIn, FB etc?

Anna it's crazy how similar they all are. I've heard about it being talked of as a 'hive mind'. They have the same agenda and the same script....terrifying!

He's fallen crazy in love? Yeah because he IS crazy. Actually hes pretty batshit and instead of swooning, OP should be running for her life. I think modern culture has such a big part to play in womens unhealthy view of relationships. Theres always some hunky casanova who the lead character finally manages to get him to settle down, but not before hes cheated on her/over stepped her boundaries/treated her in the most misogynistic way and then when she breaks up with him for aforementioned bullshit and says she never wants to see him again, he proceeds to stalk her until the grand finale, over the top public gesture where he love bombs the shit out of her and it works and all is forgiven.

and we're supposed to think that shits 'true love' 🙄

I do appreciate the messages of support and advice and I’m not walking straight back into it ignoring it all.....I want to see how his behaviour is over the next 7 days.....is he capable of giving me the space I need, of being normal?

No I haven’t done the google thing but we are friends on social media which makes me think he’s being open else he wouldn’t want me seeing his stuff? There’s not much on his social for me to lurk...:think he’s fairly private and doesn’t post much.....many men don’t.....

I know people are saying that his antics won’t start yet but there’s really no real signs other than those I’ve detailed.....he’s not controlling about who I talk to, he doesn’t follow me about etc......he tried to add me on find my friends last week and I said no as I thought it was creepy and never used it anyway and he was fine about it.....if he were a narc wouldn’t there have been some rage? Or a flounce even? There was nothing....

I get what posters are saying about it impacting their children via the mother but isn’t that a choice you made? To put him first? I feel like I would never do that.....that I wouldn’t allow myself to reach the point I was unable to function......my ex husband left me for someone else and I divorced him and forgave him......we are on good terms....::I didn’t breakdown......I accepted it for what it was

I thought the safeword thing was quite cute really......if he were just another narc surely he wouldn’t care -“about losing me? I don’t think he is another dirty John because he has his own money, a flat, a great job......so it’s not my money he’s after and I’ve made it clear kids are out of reach for a good 6-12 months so it’s not them either....

You think a safe word is cute?

I reckon we'll see you on here in 6 months time in total despair.

But you’d already made it clear that he couldn’t meet your kids before...and he forced the issue anyway.

This is a man you’ve known for just over two months. Two months! And he’s talking marriage and being part of your family and throwing the word love around like it actually means something. And you claim there’s no real signs?! Good grief woman.

He doesn’t need to follow you about because he’s always with you. Train journeys, lunch at work, weekends away, constant texts and gifts...he’s slowly but surely suffocating you and you can’t even see it.

Your friends can see it. Strangers on the internet can see it. But you seem to have your fingers firmly in your ears whilst chanting “la la la”.

Find my friends?! mine wanted me to do that too. I also refused. He wasn't angry. He didn't rage. No one sane would even suggest it. It's stalkery and creepy.

2.5 years later he attacked me. The scary stuff ramps up. It's like being boiled alive. You don't realise to start with. And even looking back, you're so messed up, you still think you're wrong.

Safe word?! It's not cute.

God. The similarities are scary.

No, your average narc will be utterly who you want them to be for the first year or two. You tell them they are being creepy and they will back off smoothly. And then try another tack...

The reason red flags are called that is that the advice (given by those who have more experience than they'd like) is to walk away if you see one. Just walk. If you see one! How many have you counted here?

You're going to see how the week goes. Ok. But it sounds like you're saying, "he's been repeatedly creepy over the two months I've known him; I'm going to see if he can act normal for a week. Now that he knows I don't like his innate creepiness."

there’s really no real signs other than those I’ve detailed

...
So there are red flags...
But just those red flags. No more than those. Just those few.

Right. Carry on then. Now that you say it like that, it makes perfect sense. What could go wrong?

OP you honestly sound like you dont know how to think in a straight line. I feel so sorry for your children.

He’s fucked up and he knows it.....I’m not papering over it either because you’re all right my boundaries have been crossed and I’m fucking angry about it...

If, and it’s a big if, I decide to give him a chance I’d be going into this with my eyes wide open and any whiff of continued red flaggery and I’d be telling him goodbye....

My boyfriend hates violence....won’t even watch a violent film so I’d be surprised if he ever got physical with me....but you never know....

Out of interest those that have been in abusive relationship didyoy identify red flags from the outset and talk with your friends? Why didn’t you listen to them? What was it that kept you hooked?.... want to make sure I’m keeping my feet on the ground....

He’s been a twat but I miss his texts.....he writes lovely

With every single post you make Strawberry, the red flags just pile on in. There’s now far too many to count. It also seems hook and line have long gone, you’re well and truly sunk.

Wouldnt there have been rage?
No. He’ll take a step back on that front and find another angle or simply try again later.

isn’t that a choice you made?
No. You don’t make choices when you’re with a man like this, they make the choices for you. He did it with the cupcakes, before you say that wouldn’t happen and just by being with him when you’ve had concerns, allowed that to happen.

Incidentally, the fact your friends have made their position with him clear was the first opportunity to isolate you. I can promise you, you won’t be seeing them much over the next few months and by this time next year you won’t be seeing them at all.

He doesn't follow you about but he travels to and from work with you, meets you for lunch every day and wanted to install Find my Friends on your phone. And you have known him less than THREE MONTHS.

Having this conversation is like trying to negotiate with my 8 year old - "yeah, but" to every single challenge. Which is why you can't negotiate with 8 year olds.

I bet you a tenner he contacts you within the week.

He doesn’t travel with me everyday....I’ll either see him on my commute or for lunch....not all 3....I have my DC throughout the week so it’s our only opportunity for FaceTime as I won’t have him here when they are in the house...

Loads of people have find my friends....:he has his kids on there....I really don’t think it’s sinister and he encourages me to go out with mr friends....alone....without him....why would he do this if he were trying to isolate me?

I’m not picking a fight but not everything he does is a red flag....

'I’ve made it clear kids are out of reach for a good 6-12 months '.
So he has a timeframe to work with then

That must be one of the scariest things I've read on here

But strawberry you are putting him first because you are not reacting responsibly to so many red flags. Being a parent is making alot of risk assessments about whether a choice you make will impact your children in a negative way. You are ignoring so many signs that this is a very bad idea

You dont seem to realise that you are already IN the abuse cycle and cant see it so how can you know for sure that the damage he will inevitably do after lovebombing is over wont destroy you to the point where you cant function? You cant outsmart them because they are very practiced at what they do. He already has you right where he wants you. As said before, his true controlling behaviour hasnt fully come out yet, it is very gradual and you are still in the love bombing phase so he wont let the mask slip (rage or flounce) until hes got you further under his control.

He will probably give you your space because you have basically told him everything he needs to do to keep you around. He knows he pushed you too far and is now adjusting his game plan accordingly.

He might be a covert narc who appears to the outside world as a successful, wonderful member of society who can hold down a job and a house etc. but in private he is a sinister headfuck. One of my ex narcs (also harassed me after ending the relationship) had a successful IT company, a house in a posh area, drove a brand new Audi, bought me expensive jewellery and handbags very early on, was setting up his own charity. He ended up being a real nasty piece of shit too!

He does care about losing you, but only to the extent that you are grade A narc supply due to your vulnerability and he lives only for supply.

You were OK when things ended with your exH as I'm assuming it was a normal relationship? Breaking up with a narcissist is like something you wouldnt wish on your worst enemy. They chew you up and spit you out a broken person and you cant even see its happening until its too late. I worry it is too late for you and I'm so sorry for you

www.businessinsider.com/dating-a-narcissist-phrases-to-know-2017-3?r=US&IR=T

Read this. Sound familiar?

Incidentally, narcissists/sociopaths are very often successful. A fifth of CEOs are psychopaths. You can have a personality disorder and be enormously successful professionally.

"For instance if you lay out all your boundaries and exactly where you're coming from and what you want etc. Because if he turns out to be a manipulative man he will store all that information to use against you at a later date or to learn how to pull your strings" I was just thinking that.

Perhaps better to keep things more general?

It all needs to really slow down and be much less intense. A more normal pace (which would be seeing each other 2-3 times a week) gifts on special occasions only and not excessive. Total honesty about past relationships and his relationship with his children. (I genuinely find it very concerning that he's so kid focussed when his own aren't that fussed with him. The people I know that aren't bothered with their parents? There's usually damn good reasons for this and almost always due to poor behaviour of the parents' - abuse and addiction are the obvious ones, but neglect, disinterest is just as damaging and of course it's also possible - as you say yourself if he's a narc - that he's done the golden child/scapegoat nonsense with them - so be alert if he seems to favour one child over the others)

Another reason to not be specific is then you can properly assess if he genuinely understands how a normal relationship should progress, without you having to spoon feed him.

This early on while the rose tinted specs are on it can seem appealing his need to be "guided" but give it a year or 2 and it would just be exhausting!

"The gifts are an investment. He is keeping a tally in his head" absolutely!

Peabody - yes, op has already said her friends don't like/trust him - and they've met him. Now op posts here and it's virtually unanimous (I think it may even actually be unanimous) that this guy sounds seriously dodgy. Yet op is ignoring EVERYONE telling her this.

Op when EVERYONE is telling you you're making a mistake, really, what are the chances that you aren't?!

Peabody I'm sorry to say I don't recall commenting on your thread, did you Nc? However, I'm very glad if I was indeed one of those that was helpful (however bluntly 😉) and extremely glad to hear you're doing well and are safe now.

Op one of the reasons I feel so strongly about hopefully helping women avoid ending up in abusive relationships is because I've witnessed it from the "inside".

My father is abusive in every way, I've watched my mother being subjected to his abuse for nearly 50 years.

When they first met he was very good looking, charming, charismatic and generous. He whisked her away on holiday abroad a few weeks after they first met, showered her with gifts and spoiled her taking her on nights out and to shows etc.

Mums family and friends had noticed his jealousy of her spending time with anyone but him, even sisters, his subtly discouraging her from wearing anything "revealing" (she was a bit of a stunner, fabulous legs!),he'd buy her expensive clothes that were just that little bit more conservative, more "sensible"
and be "offended" and "hurt" if she even hinted that she didn't like them, his tensing up whenever previous boyfriends were mentioned (the one just before him was my aunts boyfriends - and later husbands - best friend), his subtle put downs when she had been praised at work and was rightly proud of this...

From there it all escalated but the verbal and emotional abuse is by far the most effective, harmful and insidious. He wouldn't have had the opportunity to escalate other abuse and he'd not be still able to control her now (he's physically very unwell now) had he not been so very skilled at this.

I've also seen it with friends relationships though thankfully they left their abusers (with a lot of support).

"but we are friends on social media which makes me think he’s being open else he wouldn’t want me seeing his stuff?" Even normal people present an overly positive view of themselves on social media. Remember it's not hard for him to control this too, by only being "friends" with people who will post positively about him and blocking those likely to be critical. Remember too "friends" tend to be polite on public parts of sm, if I have a problem with a friend for any reason I deal with it privately not publicly. Also those critical of him won't want to be his friend any more - I'm not on my ex's FB, neither am I on my sisters or my cousin both of whom I am Nc with for various reasons.

"There’s not much on his social for me to lurk...:think he’s fairly private and doesn’t post much.....many men don’t....." That may be true or else he's limiting his presence or he has more than one page and this is his work/you one?

"he tried to add me on find my friends" you keep starting paragraphs with "he's not like that" type statements where the paragraph contains an example of his being exactly like that! This is another of those. This is NOT NORMAL

"if he were a narc wouldn’t there have been some rage? Or a flounce even? There was nothing...." No - because this early on he knows he hasn't "got" you yet so he's being careful not to give himself away (and actually still failing)

"but isn’t that a choice you made? To put him first? I feel like I would never do that...." Again contradicting yourself - you already are, by continuing to see someone who isn't acting in a normal or healthy way.

"I thought the safeword thing was quite cute really" it's really not, and I speak as someone into bdsm.

"if he were just another narc surely he wouldn’t care -“about losing me?" He would if you appear an "easy mark" an ideal candidate to groom into becoming a source of required attention for him.

"I don’t think he is another dirty John because he has his own money, a flat, a great job" at ten weeks in you can't possibly know this for sure, the job could be temporary contract, the flat mortgaged to the hilt, the money someone else's or obtained via incurring debt. Actually you could do a credit check - that might prove illuminating.

"I’ve made it clear kids are out of reach for a good 6-12 months so it’s not them either...." Which he's already attempted to remove your boundary on! He's already very focussed on meeting them. And while it's possible it's not the case, remember child abusers groom the parents first "oh but he was so great with the kids, happy to babysit/take swimming/give lifts"

"No, your average narc will be utterly who you want them to be for the first year or two. You tell them they are being creepy and they will back off smoothly. And then try another tack..." This!

Anyone with a hint of sanity or self awareness wouldn't even allude to the idea of marrying someone they had known only 10 weeks, let alone marrying someone with kids he'd never met, and within the next six months?!

And to then rock up at your door uninvited, saving the day with his gold plated cupcakes on your DC's birthday?! If that's not all about him, wtf is??

At very best, he wants to use your kids as a project to make up for the fact he has a shit relationship with his own.

The guy is very bad news.

You do think the findmyfriends thing is sinister because before you said you told him it was creepy he'd asked, so it bothered you.

I don't know how to get across to you that your image of an abuser is a very dangerous one. You don't seem to understand that these men do not all walk around acting like a thug with dickhead written in their forehead. They start out sweet and charming and 'wouldnt hurt a fly' persona and this gradually changes over time. If they started out by punching you in the face, telling you you cant have male friends, you're a worthless bitch then youd never see them again. They wait until you are truly dependent on them before they'll pull the big guns out.

My narc ex once babysat my children so I could go for dinner with a male colleague, it doesnt mean anything in the beginning. Within a few months I was told by him I had to stop talking to a different male friend, accused me of cheating and not loving him enough, not answering my phone quick enough. He also had me as a friend on facebook but limited all of his settings so I could o ly see very select posts (so it looked like he didn't post often) and I couldn't see his friends list.

Why did I ignore red flags: in a nutshell i had zero self worth, was naive and wanted so badly for it to be wrong so I could continue seeing them, thought they were so nice they couldn't possibly be abusive compared to my ex, thought everyone deserves a chance, thought it would never happen to me again because I 'knew' all the red flags.

It got to the point where it was so bad, I was so broken, I became determined to learn all I could and actually apply that knowledge to stop myself ever being sucked in again. That's why you will ultimately learn to walk at the first red flag and not stick around to find out anymore because at that point you are already part of their game.

OP, please listen to Lock's excellent posts, and all the women who are sharing their hard-earned experience with you. All the warning signs are there, loud and clear.

OP, please watch this video. It has some excellent advice about trusting your intuition.

you know what yours is telling you otherwise you would never have asked the question

Actually shall we count the red flags here?

1 love bombing

2 excessive and mostly public "generosity"

3 daily contact

4 excessively eager to meet DC

5 showing up unannounced at your home demolishing your stated boundary re meeting your kids

6 when challenged re 5 accused you of being shut off, rather than being apologetic or conciliatory

7 already wanting to discuss serious commitment

8 when you pointed out this was too fast accused you of not loving him

...and I'm only on post 1!!!!

9 has you feeling anxious at the thought of ending things even though you barely know each other

10 excessive indirect communication

11 very reluctant to discuss previous relationships

12 using "breaking down" to elicit sympathy when HE was the one in the wrong

13 probably lied about not expecting your child to answer the door, despite the fact that even though he messages and calls frequently he DIDN'T tell you he was on his way over/at the door

14 likely lied about the cupcakes being on offer

15 doesn't have a close relationship to own DC

16 reluctant to discuss relationship with his own DC

17 is isolating you by taking up much of your free time

18 safe word - for what reason?

19 seeming lack of activity on sm - quite honestly that doesn't tally with someone who is so publicly expressive in other ways

20 tried to add you on find my friend

TWENTY RED FLAGS!

Most people would be heading for the hills with 2 or 3 especially this early on!

OP, am sorry to say Im with Graphista and other pps on this.

I was love bombed. Didn't know it was called that at the time. Fell for it hook line and sinker.

Mistake. Big. Huge.

My instincts told me to get out, but unfortunately I had other people quite taken by him and who persuaded me otherwise.

I thought I was over reacting. I wasn't.

Im still with him, but its a sad life.

He overruled your decision about your own children.

He deflected blame by accusing you of being emotionally shut off.

You should have immediately cut contact with this controlling manipulator.

Instead, you are pushing to be with him, and are minimizing his attempts to dominate and diminish you.