Just another MN cynic or are these red flags?

[Strawberryblondereally]

NC’d. Divorced 2 years ago and have been dating with various success. Met my DP 10 weeks ago and have been overwhelmed by my feelings....He has been everything I could have hoped for. We have seen each other most days since meeting initially if even just for a coffee during lunch, the sex is the best I’ve ever had, we have so much in common and he makes me smile so much....

I’m a MN veteran and have read about narcissists and the like over the years so am quite attuned to the signs....I haven’t wanted my DP to meet my DC yet as I thought it a bit early but he was very keen from the off. He has DC too. It was my DC bday and I’d mentioned in passing to him that I’d forgotten to pick her up cupcakes and an hour later he turned up at my house unannounced and delivered 48 Lola’s cupcakes. My DC opened the door to him....it was all quite awkward and I didn’t know what to do....now I know this was a generous act but I stressed that I didn’t want him meeting my DC yet and he just totally ignored it....when I confronted him later about it he accused me of being shut off as a result of my marriage breakdown....I’m not at all and my marriage ended amicably....

I’ve spoken to friends and they say he has red flags everywhere which I’ve probably just ignored to be frank....he’s lavished me with expensive gifts, taken me to fancy restaurants, holidays etc all in 10 weeks which I thought was just generosity but my friends think is alarming....he’s also talking about us living together and getting married this year which sounds ridiculously soon to me but each time I say that he gets really upset and accuses me of not loving him....

Am I being cynical here? Might this guy just be a gudun and I’m allowing my paranoia to creep in?

He has shown you a glimpse of his controlling nature. He told you he wanted to meet your kids, you said no and he forced the issue regardless. That in itself is controlling. Whether you care to see it or not.

Good luck OP, you and your poor kids are going to need it. Hope the weekends away are worth it.

"he hasn’t tried controlling me" yes he has by trying to get you to change your boundaries

"there hasn’t been any of the classic isolation tactics...." Yes he has - by commandeering your time. It's more subtle than the overt methods but it's still effective. Plus it's still VERY early days

"when I stack him up against other clearly narcissistic people he just doesn’t seem that bad....." Wow! Don't compare him to the worst people you know compare him to the best. How does he compare to your best male friends/relatives?

"I just feel like if I really wanted to end it I could quite easily really..." And yet he stomped all over an important boundary to you and you're already excusing and minimising for him! You sound like an addict - but the problem is you're addicted to a person and your addiction isn't just a risk to you but your kids too.

Re his marriage break up exactly why did they break up? What exactly does "not the best relationship" with his kids mean?

Men rarely leave without another woman to go to, less commonly because of spousal abuse, far more often when that isn't the case the wife ends it and that's usually because of unfair/unequal treatment up to and including abuse or they're having an affair. Very very few marriages break up "just because".

His reluctance to talk about past relationships is very concerning. Strongly suggests they all ended for the same reason....and he's the common denominator.

I was NOT being flip when I said

get Clare's law and Sarah's law checks done on this guy. Something smells and it isn't you!

Please please be cautious especially with your kids safety.

Strawberry, this is the first time I've come back and posted on a thread twice in 24 hrs. I was worried for you yesterday, but your updates fill me with anxiety.

You KNOW this guy is not right. Your instincts are telling you this very strongly, strongly enough for you to have posted on an anonymous internet forum asking for advice. Please, please heed the advice you're being given. There are people here with first hand experience of relationships which started in precisely this way and they're telling you to run for the hills.

I know someone who, perfectly understandably, told herself the same things you're telling yourself right now. She didn't want to miss out on a potential 'good 'un', adjusted her expectations in line with his lies, made every excuse under the sun for his bizarre behaviour, and ended up with a dangerous stalker.

If you really can't see the folly in continuing with this, please DO NOT LET THIS MAN NEAR YOUR CHILDREN. Sorry for caps. Feel like I'm shouting at the telly.

It's hard to let go of something you're so caught up in and which you may still feel offers some kind of future, but please do as people upthread have urged and give yourself a clear break to reflect on where you are with this man. Take care of yourself and your kids x

Also splashing the cash early on is a classic con man move - give the impression of wealth and then later when they claim a "cash flow problem" not only does their victim feel obligated to them but thinks that it's genuine and any loan will quickly be repaid. When in reality often the cash they were splashing was their last victims.

I've a branch of my family tree that are con artists and this is a regular move.

They're very affable, very charming - they wouldn't be successful if they weren't.

So don't loan him any money either.

agree with graphista mine didn't isolate me obviously ever really. But he just demanded all of my time, and made me feel so amazing I wanted to spend all my time with him. It was my friends who pointed out he was isolating me.

I suspect over the next few days he will still contact you alot. Maybe be upset that he isn't seeing you. Say he's missing you. make you feel bad for not seeing him. He'll still message you incessantly.

and yes, you['re only 10 weeks in. It's not normal to be like this or feel like this so early on.

Op you mentioned earlier...he hasn’t tried controlling me....has never tried to dissuade me going out or spending time with my friends or family....there hasn’t been any of the classic isolation tactics....
But he is already doing that in a very subtle way, all these weekends away, getting the train home together and meeting up for lunch etc. When was the last time you actually had a day where you didn't see him?

*:I told him when he’s ready to talk about it I’d be willing to listen...::I then got up and left....

Less teary now that I feel in control of the situation....it’s a head fuck*

How are you in control of this situation? Where and what are your boundaries?

All you have done is just held a door wide open for him to come back with some bluster......

There will be loads on here who will be predicting his next moves.

If there aren't massive red flags waving that a man you barely know wants to go on family holidays with you and your daughter(s), you have very poor boundaries.

And Lola's cupcakes are never on sale. A lie. And if he knocked on your door ON YOUR DAUGHTER'S BIRTHDAY, there was a bloody good chance she was going to open it. Another lie.

So those are the ones you know he told. How many more?

For the posters who are accusing me of neglecting my children I will NOT be introducing him to them again for a long time...:6 months maybe even 12 months.....they are not at risk

I’m not with him for the weekends away, or the stupid fucking gifts but for the companionship, the laughs, cuddles, chat, good sex etc. I’m not shallow or grabby.....

And those that have been abused in the past im sorry for that......but not everyone is an abuser.....:maybe my guy is.....but maybe he is not.....

Have asked him to back off and give me space and he has, no constant messaging tonight....we have a safe word and I’ll send him it if I want to converse....but I don’t......

My DC aren’t disturbed by the event.....they are fine and they are curled up in bed.....they are not affected.....I am, but I will deal with that...

I’m also going to write down my boundaries.....and if, I decide I want him back in my life I’ll be taking him through each and everyone.....I also expect to know precisely what happened with him and his ex......if he starts saying she was but will be off.....I know the script from MN

OP just be careful not to give him too much information about yourself too early on. For instance if you lay out all your boundaries and exactly where you're coming from and what you want etc. Because if he turns out to be a manipulative man he will store all that information to use against you at a later date or to learn how to pull your strings.
Decide on your own where you will draw the line. But you don't need to tell him this.

If you knew the script you wouldn't be with him. I sincerely hope we are all wrong and at least you are well aware now and putting more boundaries in place.
Sadly I do suspect that if you hold tight with your new boundaries, he may get bored and move onto someone else.
I also agree with @Cinammoncake that he will be careful to take note of your boundaries to make sure he tows the line, doesn't mean his intentions have changed.

You have a safe word? Such drama!

He's already met your daughter. Even though you told him you didn't want him to meet her.

New relationships should be fun.

In the short time you have been together, he has :
Lied about silly small things
Ignored your boundaries
Met your children when you explicitly told him you didn't want him to
Gaslit you by telling you that you are shut off because your marriage ended badly when you were angry that he met your daughter against your wishes
Told you that you don't love him when you've expressed doubt about moving in together too soon
Showered you with gifts when you asked for space

None of that is fun. It's stressful and making you anxious.

And on more thing. The gifts are an investment. He is keeping a tally in his head and he will throw that back at you if/when you chuck him.

The whole writing down your boundaries and going through them with him is really odd.

How can you possibly legislate for every situation? It's an invitation for rules-lawyering and loophole-finding, and "oh but you never said that would be a problem"...

I thought safe words were for BDSM when you want something to stop, not start? How does your safe word function?

Oh OP. Seriously? After all we've said?!
There's an arsey tone to your latest message and you're pissed off because you know you're ignoring all the red flags and the advice of the women who have been where you are and are trying to protect you. There's a whiff of desperation about your posts. You are desperate to ignore or excuse away his behaviour that has your gut and us screaming at you to end this relationship. Why is that? He's not "the one" and you know it. All the attention and gifts feels amazing when you've been single for a while and are thinking you'll never find anyone else. I too was sucked in and posters here helped me see him for the abusive twat he was. On the surface he was mr wonderful, took me on weekends away, treated me, bought me gifts, was only too happy to include my then 2 yo with our weekends away, weekends at his, getting together with his kids, meeting his parents, talking about the future. I met him in the April and all that had happened by the June/July. I wasn't on mumsnet then otherwise I might have realised what he was doing. The control came slowly and subtly. In the end I ended it because my gut wouldn't shut up. I joined mumsnet, posted various incidents that had happened and was very bluntly told (Graphista was one of the blunt but very right ones) that I needed to put my kids first, that he was abusive, controlling, and not the mr wonderful I thought him to be. I had previously been in an abusive marriage and compared to my exH he was fab. MN put me straight and thank god they did. I'm now happily single and staying that way. I've looked at the freedom program, read a great deal about abusive relationships and erected some pretty mighty boundaries because I had none, even though I thought I did.
Please heed what we are saying.

A safe word???

Strawberry I can tell you are feeling very got at but please understand that it is because people care about you and we are trying to help you see the terrible mistake you are making. It is very frustrating to watch someone walk into this situation so we are all essentially screaming NOOO as you fall further into the black hole.

I know not all men are abusive but I'd be willing to bet that yours is for all the reasons outlined by nearly every one of the posts above.

There is no worse feeling than knowing you exposed your children to an abusive man (directly or indirectly). Even if he never meets them, he'll suck the soul out of you so that you cant even function as a parent anymore. He'll take their mother away bit by bit and you won't even notice. I'd do anything to take it back and it's what haunts me the most from my past. If you willingly walk into a relationship with a man like this when you have children, then you are putting them at risk. You have no idea what this man is capable of and all the boundaries in the world can't protect you when you see his true colours because he doesnt care about your boundaries at all. He wants you to think you are in control right now and that is why men like this are so dangerous.

If you accept this behaviour then you are essentially an enabler. My sisters adult son wont speak to her anymore because she keeps entering abusive relationships blindly and her children have had to pay the price. I've also stopped speaking to her for similar reasons. Theres only so much people can bare to watch and it's really sad and a very hard lesson to learn but not all risks are worth taking. This man is not a risk worth taking.

Please do come here for support in the future and I promise i won't criticise or say 'I told you so' for not leaving. You weren't ready to learn the lesson yet and it can take many of us several abusive relationships before the penny finally drops. I sincerely wish this happens for you sooner rather than later.

10 weeks and all this is going on?

Oh come on.

Disappear up your own bottom trying to convince yourself it's actually all fine if you like, but it really isn't.

He didn't make a 'mistake', he heard your boundaries loud and clear and decided to ignore them. Your word wasn't good enough.

You are being a fool I'm sorry to say.

Good post lock. Only one thing - he is already exhibiting abuse behaviour. Ignoring someone's boundaries and gaslighting is abusive.

And the point that another poster made about him controlling when you go to work and come home and when and where you have lunch is bang on.

Strawberry. - I also promise I won't say I told you so. I just want you and your kids to be safe and happy

Oh yes and the 'safe word'. Had that to with one of my worst ex narcs. Ours was "I'm a little bit busy right now" when we had had a 'misunderstanding' (I.e he was gas lighting the fuck out if me) and we needed some space. Its actually so ridiculous looking back now.

He also had 3 children he didn't see, would cry at the drop of a hat, turn up unannounced, loved me and wanted to move in and be a perfect family within weeks of meeting, was amazing in bed but had only had 3 sexual partners 😂, had a hard life growing up, his ex cheated on him and is bitter and wont let him see the children and harped on about parental alienation, took me on loads of trips and holidays early on, wanted to spend time with me as a 'family', talked about us having children within weeks, went over the top helping me around the house doing DIY, buying gifts all the time, showed me select pieces of evidence in his phone that fit with his story.

Any of this sound familiar OP?

Turned out he was a violent man with a long record of DV, a serial cheat, went to strip clubs, was online dating throughout our whole relationship, an alcoholic (I had no idea and he hid it well), he stole from me and when I ended the relationship, he screamed and swore at me when my DC were in the house and then emailed by boss and made false allegations against me to try and get me fired. He also harassed me and my family for weeks. I had to go to the police and I'm still going through the court process.

All because I ignored my gut, ignored the red flags, ignored the warnings from friends. He nearly destroyed my life and i fear you are heading for the same fate

Just out of interest, have you done a really deep google search on him?

Oh Lockcodger my experience sounds so similar. Like you, my biggest regret is the impact of this man on my children. He did actually take me away from them. He nearly destroyed their mother. Mine too - hoildays early on, gifts, all of that stuff.

It ended in violence. And I wasn't the first - I didn't delve too much into his past, but I wish I'd done a Clare's law request. I was happy to turn a blind eye to his children blanking him, to one of them changeing her name, to his ex w refusing to even be in the same room as him. To the yo-yo relationship in the years before, to the endless changes in jobs, to the fact our first date involved alchohol - it was 11am. All of that.

My biggest regret is my children. And as lockcodger says, he didn't even need to meet them to cause them massive damage.

Safe word? Can't you see how weird that is? Listen to your friends even if you won't listen to anyone else.

It sounds like he's fallen madly in love with you. Obviously be aware of possible pitfalls, I certainly wouldn't suggest cohabitation under a year, marriage 2 years minimum (and to be honest do you want to remarry?) but men can fall crazily in love too

and yes, trying to persuade me to get pregnant too. (How better to ensure control). Telling me he'd only slept with a couple of people. (yeah, right). Crying if I tried to pull back. Mocking me if I said I wanted space - accusing me of not wanting to be serious. Accusing me of being cold.