Think I need to cancel my wedding

[RaspberryRiceCakes]

Ok so have names changed just for this as don't want it connected to other posts.

DP and I are getting married in August this year. We have been together for 12 years, have 1 DC ages 2, and we own our home jointly.

For years he has been a bit secretive about money, got a bit weird if I asked how much money he had left over after bills etc. We have a joint account and we pay equal amounts into it so not like he doesn't pay his way, but he just whacks everything else on a credit card...coffee, petrol, food shop etc. It builds up and up until it's out of control. I eventually find out about it, we figure a way to pay it off and then he promises to be better with his money, cancel the card etc. He has pretty average credit despite debt years ago but he can only get high interest rate credit cards also so the payments are usually very high. I on the other hand have very good credit.

This cycle continues over and over and we now have an 18k loan which is a consolidation of a number of his credit cards/finance and some other unfortunate large spends when we were short of cash because he took a large pay cut -another thread entirely-. He now has a better paid job again and we are doing ok financially. I thought this was it though and all the debt was just this one manageable monthly payment. We had a very frank conversation months ago after the last lot of credit card debt was discovered. We discussed remortgaging later in the year and take some equity out of the house to get rid of it. However I have since found out he has 2 credit cards each with 1K+ on (he told me he only had about £300 on 1, and last month he took out an 8.5k loan!!! He has at least paid off the credit cards as the payment on the loan is much less than the credit cards, but I don't know how he was planning on explaining the extra 6k. He has also booked us a holiday for next year which he doesn't know I've seen the paperwork for. That still leaves 4k. I also don't know how he was planning on explaining the loan when we came to remortgage.

I first got suspicious because he started spending money on clothes, not expensive really but I know he wouldn't have much spare cash. He also gave me his card details to pay for something for the wedding which he said was his credit card (that we would pay off with the money we were waiting for) but they were in fact is debit card details, this was £500 and I know he definitely wouldn't have that much spare.

Our wedding is costing under 3k and we have had money gifted to help with this anyway so no financial pressure there. There's less than 1K left to pay.

I have confronted him about it last night and he has done his usual deny deny deny. I haven't shown my hand yet on how I know 100% (bank statement) but I've told him something has shown up on my credit report as he is a linked associate. Still deny deny deny. He's stated he was 'just looking' and applied for one but cancelled it before he received any money as the rate was different after he'd gone through the application.

We didn't speak for the rest of the night and this morning has been frosty. He's gone out for a bit and I've sent him a long text basically saying I'm not angry about the actual loan, I'm angry about the denial. That he must thing I'm a right mug, I'm insulted he things I'm so dumb. I said I'm not prepared to enter a marriage based on lies and he's basically text back saying, we'll make sure you do it today and text everyone to let them know. So he's calling my bluff.

Still complete and utter denial 🤷‍♀️ like, HE is the dumb one isn't he?? What do I do? I really don't want to end things, I love him very much and things are good in every other aspect. But I just don't get why he takes me for such a mug when it comes to money/hidden debt.

(Also large debt can seriously effect my job...I've applied for a new job internally and will have to go through more strict vetting if I get it, and large debt can apparently leave you open to bribes so I would probably fail it )

Sorry for the extremely long post.

OP, I wouldn’t consider marriage to him whatever he says, or does in the next 12 months. If he reverts back to his old ways, then you’re stuck. Consider what marriage really is - not a romantic wedding but a financial tie. If you still want to be in a relationship you can do that. I really feel for you but he past performance isn’t really screaming trust me, I’ve changed.

I have to say I 100% agree. Please don't marry this man. However hard it will be to call off the wedding it might save you years of agony. Best wishes xx

I don't believe he is giving it enough thought. Thinks he's come up with a good enough solution and that will be that

You're absolutely right, but what's to stop him taking out one more massive loan "to sort this out once and for all" ... a "last throw of the dice" so to speak, which he'd spin as a well meaning attempt to addresses the problems?

Unfortunately his comment about "going too far" in his appalling attitude says everything. In reality, instead of being "too much", his chosen response shouldn't have happened at all ... let this one go and that's exactly the behaviour you can expect much more of, only worse

Doubtless he'll expect to return after a couple of days, hoping that you'll have "got over it" and that his provably baseless promises to change will be enough. Luckily you sound a strong lady, so I can only hope you won't gamble any more on such flimsy assurances

I understand that you don’t want to leave him but if you stay together, please don’t marry for at least a few years.

IF you stay together you will HAVE to be the one to have sole control and sort out finances for everything for the rest of the relationship. Otherwise you will always be on edge wondering whether he has taken out another loan.

Do not remortgage, go to a debt management company, like step change and they should be able to arrange to freeze the interest on loans and it will probably affect your/his credit rating but that is a good thing and means it will be harder to get credit. If you have a holiday/big expenditure, save for it, get nothing on credit. The only thing that should be purchased with credit is if it is an emergency ie new fridge/cooker etc and only if you have no other way to pay for it.

If he can get on board with you “controlling” finance and not resent you for doing it (should be on knees thanking you), and also look at his behaviour when challenged and not lie, then maybe you have a chance. After pointing out how he is acting exactly like his father will hopefully be a wake up call and he will make a real effort to change his damaging behaviour.

I have tried to help a family member that is forever getting into trouble with money, near eviction twice etc and they do resent the help I have given instead of being thankful. It’s like they think you want to have all the control when in realty it is a massive hassle and time consuming to sort out their finances and budget as well as my own. So I know it is an endless battle, they will never change.

Good luck to you.

Also the surprise holiday. In his mind it was a nice exciting thing to do and it would be if he had saved for it instead of getting yet another secret loan. In reality, given the damage his loans have caused in the past, it is just another link in the chain of debt dragging you all down. I would be livid about it. He just doesn’t or won’t see that his money expenditure is a problem. He has an addiction.

I honestly can't believe that marriage is still on the table. You can never marry this man. You would be an absolute fool to do so.

My ex husband was like this op. It will never ever get better trust me.
It got to the point with me some days I actually had to phone in sick at work because I genuinely couldn’t afford to get there because we had no money left over at the end of the month after paying off debts he ran up.
I left him about 18 months ago and honestly have such a nicer quality of life.
Non of that dread every time the post comes or the door knocks unexpectedly.
I can do things with my money like save for nice things instead of using most of it to bail ex out of yet another debt.
My credit rating is in tatters because of him and I expect it to be for a while so even though I’ve left him he still adversely affects my life because of his awful money management.

In my case the debts never got bigger they just never stopped coming £300 one month £200 the month after, there was always something every 4-6 weeks that I found out about.

Also if he has the potential to hide things very well he will find it easy to hide other things too and you’re going to end up in a relationship where you can never trust him or relax and let your guard down. You’ll always be waiting for the next debt to come along and drown you just as you get your head above water.

I’d run for the hills if I were you and enjoy a lovely life with your dd instead of spending your life investing so much wasted energy into your dp that you have non left for yourself.

Oh and I tried this one
We postpone the wedding for year, but stay in a relationship whilst he hands over all the finances to me and pays the loans out of his own money and gets counselling. If he can do that, we can then get married

And you know what I was always the responsible one always nagging always sorting out the bills always diverting my hard earned money to cover debts he’d ran up over the year, while he happily took his ‘allowance’ and had not an ounce of the money stress I did because I was shouldering all the financial responsibility for the family and he didn’t have a care in the world. That’s not an equal partnership. An equal partnership is having a partner you can trust with money and not having a partner who’s going to fuck you over financially every single time you let your eyes iff the ball.

I ended up ill for about 6 months and I let things slip and you know what happened at the end of it about 6k of debt that i then had to sort.
With my ex it was never gambling or drinking either it was stupid things like getting a parking ticket for not paying to park and ignoring it until it was £300, not paying his credit card and incurring hundreds in fees. Stupid things like that.

I told my ex I wanted a trial separation and I couldn’t believe how happy and easy my life quickly got without him in it. He told me he didn’t want a trial separation because I would realise I was better off without him

If you get married any future debt become yours too.This will eat away at you,you come to divorce and there will be nothing for you and maybe even more debt to pay.
It is going to be hard but he has broken all his promises already.

pointing out how he is acting exactly like his father will hopefully be a wake up call

I wouldn't be too confident, TBH. If he has any self knowledge at all this should have occurred to him, and if he doesn't there's simply no point

As said, after all he's put OP through his reaction to being caught out in yet another lie is downright appalling - abusive, in fact. While words are cheap, the whole thing bodes so terribly for the future that it's hard to understand how marriage could ever be on the cards

And while a split might not be pleasant, it's surely got to be better than the alternative

ihatemyjobsomuch

And many others have trodden this path and it goes nowhere.

Option2 - you have done time and time again in various forms and the just burden increases on to YOU. You will be the one continuing to be hyper vigilant, holding it all together, exhausted and stressed. This will take its mental and physical toll on you in time.

He gets to skip away from the responsibility of turning it around like a little boy with pocket money - until he figures out a way to start stealing from “Mums” purse again - all the while seething with utter contempt for you.

In any addiction this strategy is the worst - it’s enabling as HE isn’t taking on the hard work of problem solving the issue and taking 100% responsibility for turning around HIS issues.

Where is your DC in all of this? YOUR finite headspace is consumed and distracted - YOUR finite time is eroded in a futile fire fight of his addiction.

She will end up being inadvertently emotionally neglected because your finite time and energy is diverted elsewhere as it has been over this bank holiday weekend. You should be free and easy with you DD right now - not sucked into this. I note that he has taken the fun way out today skipping off to a play date with DD to let YOU figure it all out!!! Why isn’t he trawling the statements today to problem solve and fix his mess and you have fun with your DD? Because he can’t and won’t.

Get counselling help for yourself so that your DD has at least one parent focused on her.

Cutting him lose maybe the “rock bottom”’ he needs to experience and his best and only chance to reflect, then change, them grow. Give him that gift.

Also the 3Cs of addiction are:

YOU didn’t cause it
YOU can’t control it
YOU can’t cure it

All of those are 100% down to him.

i'd hold off the wedding indefinitely.
He'll be on his behaviour until the dust settles - and then carry on with his selfish, deceitful ways.

i have a brother who sounds exactly like this, he's in his 30's with 5 dc and still just as bad.
he's currently on the hunt for wife number 3 after ruining the previous two and leaving them to pick up all the pieces.

2) We postpone the wedding for year, but stay in a relationship whilst he hands over all the finances to me and pays the loans out of his own money and gets counselling. If he can do that, we can then get married.

The thing is, in that instance (and other things you’ve mentioned that equate to the same thing: prove to me over a short space of time and then we’ll be together, basically) he has a reason to be better. Make no mistake that a year is a very short space of time when you’re factoring in you’ll be spending the rest of your life with him. He has a goal in mind. An incentive to be different - for a short amount of time, to get what he wants. Once he’s done those things, there is absolutely no reason, incentive or need for him to continue to do better because you’re married. He can simply revert back to type. And he will, because he is a pathological liar and you’ve allowed the cycle to continue with no lasting repercussions. You’ve bailed him out, he knows he can and will get away with it. In the long term, nothing will be any different to what it is now and I think you know that deep down. You are being manipulated every step of the way. Saying you ruined the ‘surprise’ holiday was nothing more than an attempt to make you feel bad and shush, a blatant lie in order to cover his own arse again. The same can be said for saying it was then for the nursery fees, he deflects and covers his lies with things that you’re supposed to be grateful for; for things that make him look good and you the unreasonable party. Handing finances over to you is nothing more than an attempt to placate you and hush you up. He knows exactly how to play you and unfortunately you allow it every step of the way. You deserve more. Your children deserve more. Love yourself more than you love him. You owe yourself a happy ending; not a bankrupt ending in 10 years.

OP, option 2 is doable, but I agree with PP that postponing by a year isn't long enough to sort out and clear some of the debts. I think the wedding needs to be postponed until he is debt free or on the last leg of it.

It is good if he is talking to a savvy friend, that is what made XH realise that he had blown it, when he hid his debts from me after I bailed him out.

As far as I know, XH didn't get into extensive debt while he was with me. He did after he left, because he bought loads of new clothes and stuff and holidays and things that he wanted but couldn't afford. When he was with me, he realised that it was a dealbreaker, and didn't buy the things that he couldn't afford, because I would not live a life of debt.

Your DP needs to understand that the ONLY way forward, is for you to have full control of finances, and that he gets enough to cover his weekly spending, but you retain everything else. Once all the bills are paid, he can have a chunk paid off one of the cards, or save it to repay a loan early in one go.

Long term, who can say what will happen? But not everybody runs from a relationship at the first sign of trouble. You love him, you have DC together.

But he needs to understand that this cannot continue, and that you do not want or need expensive holidays or anything else.

Brilliantly insightful post, another20

myhamster this isn’t the first sign of trouble though is it? He has had over 30 jobs in the last 12 years, has run up debt time and time again, lied and lied, denied and denied, hidden and blamed and abused the OP repeatedly.

*hidden debt

another20 no I know it isn't, that was phrased badly. I just tend to hope that people can work things out somehow, if they want to change or if they don't want to lose their partner (meaning the DP). Everyone piles on and says LTB but in RL it is not always that easy. If OP loves her DP and wants to stay together she can't just kick him out, but it is DP that has all the work to do though to make it work.......

Actually another trait XH had was to go through jobs, as he always fell out with the boss somehow. I hadn't considered that was another similiarity. He was self employed for most of the years he was with me, but he did walk out of one job during that time, and since he ceased s/e, he has had several jobs in the past couple of years.

Maybe I should say run for the hills OP. Despite being very upset over my marriage ending, I have been very relieved that I haven't been the one to go through the debt and the multiple job changes and I did divorce him asap in order to be not financially connected with him due to his history with debt.

Sounds like a good chat but remember talk is cheap (and easy) the proof will be his actions.

"He said he will tell friend what has been going on and get some sound advice as friend is very financially savvy and helped us with our mortgage etc." Again a positive but a small one because he's not doing this due to lack of knowledge/cognitive ability to understand how finances work but due to an emotional/behavioural dysfunction he's dealing with.

He won't be able to change unless he properly addresses that.

"And yes MrJolly I've seen his credit report, nothing more that I didn't already know about thankfully. But I will keep checking it. " that sounds to me - and I thought the same about your other comment on this - that you've only checked with one form of access/agency? A thorough check would involve several agencies that deal with this kind of thing and possibly his having taken debt out in your name or his parents or someone else's name?

I'd recommend you get advice on how to do a really thorough credit check beyond the usual apps/sites.

"In any addiction this strategy is the worst - it’s enabling as HE isn’t taking on the hard work of problem solving the issue and taking 100% responsibility for turning around HIS issues." Totally agree.

Unless HE is having to put in the effort, MAKE the long term changes, his behaviour won't change.

OP you've been together since you were v young (I don't think this is a problem in itself, i've been with my husband since I was 17) - do you think you have grown together in the same way? Still hold the same values, did becoming parents take an equal 'toll' on you iykwim? Not saying you need to be identical but your priorities in life should be on the same page. Aside from the debt, spending and lying do you think this is true for your relationship?

Agree 100% with @another20

You need make sure you aren't being the adult and he the child - giving control over to you will breed resentment on both sides

Listen to the people who have previously been through this

Op, quote I heard..

"you don't solve money problems with money because its due to behaviours, attitudes, patterns and poor planning.If you give someone money to reduce debt you may as well put it in a shredder as it will have the same impact"

How long will it take him to alter his behaviour and pattern if it has been established all of his adult life? That is what he has to face up to. At 30 his ability to change is reducing and over the longterm as we age (generally) behaviours get worse not better.

I hope he fixes it as he has the opportunity for a wonderful life but you can't impact him to make the change. He knew when taking out the loan it was lying to you but somehow he justifies it. He needs to own up to his justifications, why he tells himself it is ok to hide it. There is probably an element of "I deserve it" or she will just controlling me. Whatever it is he has to face it head on. He won't like what it says about him because he maybe too much like his Dad.

I haven't RTFT but don't marry him. You will become liable for his debts.

He has had over 30 jobs in the last 12 years

Good grief, I missed that bit I've been in recruitment for more years than I care to count and a CV like that would hit the bin so fast you wouldn't see it move

I agree with graphista, though, about getting more thorough checks done to make sure nothing's been overlooked ... the point that he could have taken out loans in others' names is a valid one