Think I need to cancel my wedding

[RaspberryRiceCakes]

Ok so have names changed just for this as don't want it connected to other posts.

DP and I are getting married in August this year. We have been together for 12 years, have 1 DC ages 2, and we own our home jointly.

For years he has been a bit secretive about money, got a bit weird if I asked how much money he had left over after bills etc. We have a joint account and we pay equal amounts into it so not like he doesn't pay his way, but he just whacks everything else on a credit card...coffee, petrol, food shop etc. It builds up and up until it's out of control. I eventually find out about it, we figure a way to pay it off and then he promises to be better with his money, cancel the card etc. He has pretty average credit despite debt years ago but he can only get high interest rate credit cards also so the payments are usually very high. I on the other hand have very good credit.

This cycle continues over and over and we now have an 18k loan which is a consolidation of a number of his credit cards/finance and some other unfortunate large spends when we were short of cash because he took a large pay cut -another thread entirely-. He now has a better paid job again and we are doing ok financially. I thought this was it though and all the debt was just this one manageable monthly payment. We had a very frank conversation months ago after the last lot of credit card debt was discovered. We discussed remortgaging later in the year and take some equity out of the house to get rid of it. However I have since found out he has 2 credit cards each with 1K+ on (he told me he only had about £300 on 1, and last month he took out an 8.5k loan!!! He has at least paid off the credit cards as the payment on the loan is much less than the credit cards, but I don't know how he was planning on explaining the extra 6k. He has also booked us a holiday for next year which he doesn't know I've seen the paperwork for. That still leaves 4k. I also don't know how he was planning on explaining the loan when we came to remortgage.

I first got suspicious because he started spending money on clothes, not expensive really but I know he wouldn't have much spare cash. He also gave me his card details to pay for something for the wedding which he said was his credit card (that we would pay off with the money we were waiting for) but they were in fact is debit card details, this was £500 and I know he definitely wouldn't have that much spare.

Our wedding is costing under 3k and we have had money gifted to help with this anyway so no financial pressure there. There's less than 1K left to pay.

I have confronted him about it last night and he has done his usual deny deny deny. I haven't shown my hand yet on how I know 100% (bank statement) but I've told him something has shown up on my credit report as he is a linked associate. Still deny deny deny. He's stated he was 'just looking' and applied for one but cancelled it before he received any money as the rate was different after he'd gone through the application.

We didn't speak for the rest of the night and this morning has been frosty. He's gone out for a bit and I've sent him a long text basically saying I'm not angry about the actual loan, I'm angry about the denial. That he must thing I'm a right mug, I'm insulted he things I'm so dumb. I said I'm not prepared to enter a marriage based on lies and he's basically text back saying, we'll make sure you do it today and text everyone to let them know. So he's calling my bluff.

Still complete and utter denial 🤷‍♀️ like, HE is the dumb one isn't he?? What do I do? I really don't want to end things, I love him very much and things are good in every other aspect. But I just don't get why he takes me for such a mug when it comes to money/hidden debt.

(Also large debt can seriously effect my job...I've applied for a new job internally and will have to go through more strict vetting if I get it, and large debt can apparently leave you open to bribes so I would probably fail it )

Sorry for the extremely long post.

The problem is you have been here before.
You sorted it out before
He made promises before.

So he comes home contrite, then what ? He needs to put actions where his mouth is, look at flogging things.( golf clubs) cutting up his credit cards, handing over bank account & you change the log in password. He looks for a cheaper car solutions.
Him getting help is not negotiable, look at debt charity websites as PP said. he knows it is a real problem, if he doesn't face up to it, (then lies & lies again ). then what's the point ?

Why on earth have you been putting up with this for so long?
You are not (yet) married so you have no liability for his debts.
He has constantly lied to you and run up secret debts so you have no moral obligation to help him pay them off either.
You have children together but that makes it all the more important for you to protect your own finances and credit rating so YOU can provide for them when he inevitably crashes and burns.
Why oh why have you been taking on his debts and taking out JOINT loans to pay them off?
Why do you even have a joint bank account?

You have been making very bad decisions, all I assume in the name of "love" and misguided hope that he will miraculously change despite showing zero desire to do so.

You are clearly not ready to end the relationship but you need to extricate yourself financially NOW. Close any and all joint accounts. You are not responsible for paying off debts in his name. If you remortgage or sell the house, you pay off JOINT debts/loans and any equity left over is split down the middle. He can use his share to pay off HIS debts.

It's clear from your posts that you are very much thinking about "we", "our" finances and debts. STOP IT. He is not thinking in those terms at all. You're in a financial partnership of one. Whatever his motivations, he is only driven by his own agenda, he is not thinking about you or HIS CHILD, and he is not taking any action to change his behaviour (not interested in counselling for example).

Obviously you must cancel the wedding. And you must also get counselling for yourself to work out why you've put up with for so long, enabling him at the expense of financial security for yourself and your child.

OP, this is your life and your heart may overrule your head here

Trying so so hard to not let this happen which is why I'm not making any rash decisions right now and am taking my time to consider the options. I either:

1. Cancel the wedding and end the relationship full stop, sell the house and split the equity and he can pay the loans off out of his own cut.

2. We postpone the wedding for year, but stay in a relationship whilst he hands over all the finances to me and pays the loans out of his own money and gets counselling. If he can do that, we can then get married.

3. I trust that he will do as he says and we get married anyway, and are tied financially and I live a miserable existence of bailing him out over and over again.l and potentially going bankrupt/being left homeless.

Swaying between 1 & 2 but number 3 is definitely not an option.

Oh sorry I see after re reading that he is apparently "thinking about" counselling now
Far too little, too late.

2 would never work
The only way a relationship could work is if you cancel the wedding, separate finances and stay unmarried with no joint finances at all (apart from a joint mortgage as I guess you have no choice about that one - but you'll still be at risk of losing your home if he fucks up badly).

You're in a financial partnership of one.

You are correct. We've had conversations in the past where he has referred to 'mine' and 'yours' in terms of money but I have always thought of any money as joint.

We only have a joint account for the house bills and DC nursery fees. Then he pays for his phone and whatever credit card/loan payments he has and I pay for my phone, work car parking etc out of mine. Whatever is left over is ours to spend/save.

So in a nutshell, he told you everything you wanted to hear and is not respecting your request for space by already texting this early the next day.

You sound desperate to believe him but you know very well he is a liar and he obviously knows how to play you, he has been playing you for years.

So sad that we see this so often on here, women tying themselves in knots trying to fix stupid incompetent men.

1) Cancel the wedding and end the relationship full stop, sell the house and split the equity and he can pay the loans off out of his own cut.

You have a child, you need to protect their future. His debt, his responsibility. Any split in equity should have you and your child in mind. If his fair share of the equity doesn't cover the loans, don't offer to give him more or anything like that.....

You are right Ruddy I do want to believe him, but I just don't right now. That's why I asked him to leave for a few days so I can decide how we go forward.

I agree he has most likely told me what I want to hear.

We have about 50k equity in the house so it probably would just about cover it, as the 20K loan is probably more like 17k by now, but he'd be left with nothing. That wouldn't be my problem though. He'd be £600 per month better off once the loans are payed off which is enough to rent a 1-2 bed flat where we live.

With your half of the equity could you but on your own?

How can you expect your DP to change his behaviour when you can't either?

You both keep doing the same things over and over; you both keep repeating patterns with little to no deviation. He promises he'll do differently, and he never does.

But neither do you. You keep holding on, in hope that something magical is going to happen. Just like him.

Until you can acknowledge this parallel, your life will continue as is.

His behaviour when you called him out was unforgivable

And if you stay with this man you will see this side of him again. And again.

Are you even sure you know the full extent of his borrowing? Have you done a credit score in his name?

I think you know deep down that even if you get passed this now, you will be in this situation again in the future. Whatever you do, do not marry him.

Better that he is left with nothing due to his reckless spending rather than you and dc.

You have given him numerous chances and he has lied to your face. Every. Single. Time.
You have an opportunity to take control of this precarious position he has put you all in by making his absence permanent.
I would bet he is not giving this anywhere near the mental headspace and organisation that you are, he just thinks its another blow up and you will come round again and sort out his shit for the umpteenth time.

I'm not sure Random. Maybe, I would have to look into it.

Yes I know I have enabled him AFistful, I have hoped he would change and truly believed that after the last time things were on the right track. Which is why I am struggling with what to do... I can't give any more energy to this.

And yes MrJolly I've seen his credit report, nothing more that I didn't already know about thankfully. But I will keep checking it.

Yes Ruddy it would be a situation of his own making and he would have to deal with it. And no I don't believe he is giving it enough thought. Thinks he's come up with a good enough solution and that will be that.

Is there any chance you could buy him out?

Its so easy for outsiders to breezily say 'oh he's a twat, LTB'

The reality of this is often difficult and traumatic, especially with DC involved

However you really do seem to be in a strong place, and I think you have already realised with certainty that this will not be the last of it.

You need to consider whether you are prepared to spend your life constantly worrying about his spending, checking up on him, etc

Also you may well find yourself 10 years down the road, married, another couple of DCs...with another shit load of debt racked up by him behind your back.

It's a difficult decision for you OP but from everything you've said, even relating to the most recent conversations you've had, he is still in denial about this and is minimising the seriousness of it all.

Only you know whether you are prepared to live like this

AFistfulofDolores is completely right.

OP...
"We only have a joint account for the house bills and DC nursery fees. Then he pays for his phone and whatever credit card/loan payments he has and I pay for my phone, work car parking etc out of mine. Whatever is left over is ours to spend/save."

So close the joint account. He can pay his share for the mortgage and bills into your bank account by standing order.

You've done it again btw "whatever is left over is ours to spend/save" - well not really, whatever he has left over is his and he spends it, whatever you have left over is yours, which you use to subsidise him. You can't save it when you're doing that.

whatever he has left over is his and he spends it, whatever you have left over is yours

This is what I meant when I said whatever is left is ours. Just worded wrong.

It is easy to say oh just leave but dh worked with a man whose wife had no idea how bad things were till she got home to find her house was repossessed and the bailiffs had changed the locks on it.

Hint: you have to do something different from what you've done before.

Personally I would live separately for at least a year and I mean total financially separated beyond that. You get a house in your name, increase your hours to afford it etc.

If you decide to live together in the future you don't marry he pays you substantial board - equivalent of CMS, half of all bills, half of YOUR mortgage.

Unless he does some serious counselling/therapy I don't think he'll change so I would insist he cannot impact on your on the DC finances.

6 or 12 months isn’t long enough for him to prove that he is capable of being financially responsibile. If you want to stay with him (and I don’t think you should) I suggest that you need to make it at least 5 years before you think about marrying him. He has to remain debt free, stay in the same job, build up his savings, be completely open and honest about ALL his finances, be prepared to cut his expenses by not having holidays etc and above all else treat you respectfully and kindly if you question him about money. Do you really think he is capable of doing that?

Option 4 - give him a chance to prove he is trustworthy enough to still be your partner but NEVER get married. He could change for years but he's already shown he's capable of lying and deceiving. You might never know he'd reverted to bad habits until it was too late.

And possibly Option 5
Stay in your own home and take on the mortgage in your name. Buy him out. You should get more than 50% of the equity because you will be housing the children. If you want to, you could continue dating until he proves himself but again NEVER get married.

You can't marry this man and you know it. He knows it. You both just need a little time to process that. Don't let him ruin the rest of your life and that of your dc with his lies and manipulations. Don't go down the sunk cost fallacy route

I'm honestly incredulous at how you can stay with him? Debt is fucking exhausting. Imagine the things you could do with that extra £600 a month?

Why do you have such a low self esteem that you'd accept someone treating you like that?!