Think I need to cancel my wedding

[RaspberryRiceCakes]

Ok so have names changed just for this as don't want it connected to other posts.

DP and I are getting married in August this year. We have been together for 12 years, have 1 DC ages 2, and we own our home jointly.

For years he has been a bit secretive about money, got a bit weird if I asked how much money he had left over after bills etc. We have a joint account and we pay equal amounts into it so not like he doesn't pay his way, but he just whacks everything else on a credit card...coffee, petrol, food shop etc. It builds up and up until it's out of control. I eventually find out about it, we figure a way to pay it off and then he promises to be better with his money, cancel the card etc. He has pretty average credit despite debt years ago but he can only get high interest rate credit cards also so the payments are usually very high. I on the other hand have very good credit.

This cycle continues over and over and we now have an 18k loan which is a consolidation of a number of his credit cards/finance and some other unfortunate large spends when we were short of cash because he took a large pay cut -another thread entirely-. He now has a better paid job again and we are doing ok financially. I thought this was it though and all the debt was just this one manageable monthly payment. We had a very frank conversation months ago after the last lot of credit card debt was discovered. We discussed remortgaging later in the year and take some equity out of the house to get rid of it. However I have since found out he has 2 credit cards each with 1K+ on (he told me he only had about £300 on 1, and last month he took out an 8.5k loan!!! He has at least paid off the credit cards as the payment on the loan is much less than the credit cards, but I don't know how he was planning on explaining the extra 6k. He has also booked us a holiday for next year which he doesn't know I've seen the paperwork for. That still leaves 4k. I also don't know how he was planning on explaining the loan when we came to remortgage.

I first got suspicious because he started spending money on clothes, not expensive really but I know he wouldn't have much spare cash. He also gave me his card details to pay for something for the wedding which he said was his credit card (that we would pay off with the money we were waiting for) but they were in fact is debit card details, this was £500 and I know he definitely wouldn't have that much spare.

Our wedding is costing under 3k and we have had money gifted to help with this anyway so no financial pressure there. There's less than 1K left to pay.

I have confronted him about it last night and he has done his usual deny deny deny. I haven't shown my hand yet on how I know 100% (bank statement) but I've told him something has shown up on my credit report as he is a linked associate. Still deny deny deny. He's stated he was 'just looking' and applied for one but cancelled it before he received any money as the rate was different after he'd gone through the application.

We didn't speak for the rest of the night and this morning has been frosty. He's gone out for a bit and I've sent him a long text basically saying I'm not angry about the actual loan, I'm angry about the denial. That he must thing I'm a right mug, I'm insulted he things I'm so dumb. I said I'm not prepared to enter a marriage based on lies and he's basically text back saying, we'll make sure you do it today and text everyone to let them know. So he's calling my bluff.

Still complete and utter denial 🤷‍♀️ like, HE is the dumb one isn't he?? What do I do? I really don't want to end things, I love him very much and things are good in every other aspect. But I just don't get why he takes me for such a mug when it comes to money/hidden debt.

(Also large debt can seriously effect my job...I've applied for a new job internally and will have to go through more strict vetting if I get it, and large debt can apparently leave you open to bribes so I would probably fail it )

Sorry for the extremely long post.

The issue is, even if you won the lottery tomorrow and could fix all your financial woes, he's still a liar. He's still thoughtless and uncaring. He's confrontational. And you know in your heart that he'd sign up for those loans again tomorrow - AND hide it from you again.

There is no hope here. It's not even about the money, your fiancée is just an unpleasant man.

You say you love him

Take a long hard look at who he really is - without making excuses for him - he is a serial liar who gaslights you to hide his addiction and when confronted gets aggressive and locks you out of the house

Do you really love him - this awful person - or do you love who you thought he was / who he pretended to be / what you imagined your life to be with him ?

Raspberry- he's lying through his teeth. No idea what he intends spending the loan on but ill get my house it isn't nursery fees or car loans- both of who b I'm sure you've budgeted for. Like many women here, my exh clean up debts which cost me £50k plus. The truth was he couldn't bear me to have anything, even if it was bought for our children. I had a house which he intended to lay claim to, and leave me financially crippled. Thankfully it didn't turn out that way (was v hard for us),BUT remember, you have inheritance to come in time & he doesn't - that will solve all your problems until the next time. Whilst it may sound trite and mean, I think it may ring some deep uncomfortable bells with you, he intends to spend that for you. Do not tie yourself to this man financially - ever. Your child deserves better as do you.

OP this is never going to work out. If you are a mug you will pay off his debts until the next debt crisis in a few months - doesn't your dd deserve stability?

In many ways he behaves exactly like the father he despises:

• he lies - how many different lies has he told just today?
• he runs up debts for his own wants without consideration or discussion and little to show or to "keep up"
• he shouts and abuses you to deflect from what he has done
• he expects you to scrimp and save to bail him out - yet the family's savings and stability is constantly eroded
• rather than being grateful for your support he blames you and gaslights you while refusing you proper information for financial decision making

So basically he is doing the same to his own child as his father did to him and in a few years it may be you homeless

Oops - apologies for the typos. Must remember to preview, but so angry on your behalf.

@haffiana is exactly right. You will be made to feel guilty for every decision you make regarding finance. If you say we can't afford such and such this month or this year like a night out or a holiday for example you will be made out to be controlling and being unfair on your husband. He will eventually either take back control or find other ways to hide spending. My wife started going to pay day lenders like wonga and stopped paying bills like her mobile phone and council tax as her games with finance continued.
Please be aware as well if he decides he isn't paying back the debts you will be liable if there in your name. My solicitor said holidays which my wife had paid for were for the family and it would cost more than the debts are worth to clear my name so I need to just shut up and pay them.
My wife is currently refusing to pay a £335 phone bill and alls I can do is try and persuade her to help me.

I think the lying and blaming you is actually worse than the debts until he actually takes full personal responsibility for
1.) the debt
2.) Systematic lying
3.) Blaming the wrong people ( ie you and his parents)
4.) Being abusive to the victims and apologises
Then there is nothing to salvage; walk away but if he can take responsibility for all the above and agree to plan using his money to repay debts not yours, he still needs to pay his share of household bills, he needs to go without coffee bought lunches the gym new clothes etc etc until it is paid off, there is no reason for you not to have new clothes coffee out of your money when you have paid your share of bills ( he needs to understand that that is fair and reasonable) He needs to manage his money not you
completely separate your finances no joint accounts for anything not even bills

I would recommend he does a CAP course ( Christians against poverty) because they also look at the emotional side of debt they are recommended by Martin Lewis I know someone who did it they found it very helpful; they don't try and convert you

you do not need the course as you can manage money but you might wish to go with me to make sure he is not spinning yarns and really engaging with them

I think it is no spending on luxuries at all and mostly only essentials
(maybe £20 a month treat) until debt cleared and you have 3 months salary saved then you can start saving for other stuff.

I would suggest he moves out until debt free, and don't buy the line well that's 2 lots of rent. just say he needs to prove he can live within his means and pay off a big chunk of debt for at least 12 months
no surprise presents or trips, birthday & christmas limit of £20

your child is very young so they don't need loads spending on them either

@raspberryricecake. I did exactly the same thing. I picked up more work and overtime. It still did not stop my wife. It actually seemed to encourage her to spend more because she decided we had more money to waste. We had to sell our car quickly and cheaply just to stop the sinking ship. But it was a temporary reprieve and she still carried on spending.
I can't get a mortgage now as my history is so bad. I'm in rented accommodation for a minimum of four years.

he will never change and he will take you down with him.
your physical and mental health will suffer alongside your dc suffering.
you dont love him, you love who you want him to be.
please leave before it becomes too late.

nothing to do with the debt: his response when you challenged him was unacceptable in and of itself.

He's obviously not been able to confront his problem, and you'd be entitled to leave. Just as a real life example of 'success', though, when DH and I were younger, we accrued debt. Mostly due to circumstances beyond our control, but also DH had been given an impression that he would soon earn lots of money, so he felt that he could take out a loan, because he was sure to be able to pay it back when he got the job that would pay very well.

To be fair to him, it was an industry expectation, but nobody had told him that the industry was London-centric and only the very top people got the huge salaries he'd heard of, and he was not very savvy, so hadn't worked it out himself.

Anyway, cutting a long story short, with circumstances beyond our control forcing our hand, we declared bankruptcy. From that moment on, DH accepted me managing our finances, and we agreed that we would consult each other for any purchases over £30.

That was well over 10 years ago, and we haven't had a penny of debt since, except once agreeing with a garage that we would pay a big bill over 3 months, and once spreading spending from a holiday over 2 months. We don't even have an overdraft (although I now have a perfect credit score, so could easily get one - wouldn't touch it with a barge pole).

What I'm saying is that some people can change their habits. But they need to accept that change is needed first. You've got a very difficult decision to make

Raspberry I can't improve on the excellent advice so far, which basically comes down to "leave him before he drags you down completely", but you mentioned a relative who you'd "inherit from significantly". Presumably he knows about this (?) so isn't it likely it's constantly in the back of his mind as an "out"? An excuse, in other words, for never getting his act together?

Not that it makes any difference I guess ... the point's not so much the money but the constant deceit, and sadly that's not going to change while you continue to stick by him

Personally I agree with the PP who said to leave him and suggest he contacts you again if/when he's debt free and can prove it ... with the proviso that you'll almost certainly have found someone much better by then

Sounds to me like he panicked and started his usual pattern of offering you everything he thinks you want. Throw everything that is in his name at him, sell and pay what's in your name and walk away. Stuff wasting your 30s and 40s dealing with that bull crap. If you marry him you will be legally tied to everything he will ever do behind your back.

Spending addiction/compulsive spending disorder is only JUST starting to be recognised and addressed.

As with all addictions the addicts primary relationship is with their "drug" of choice.

Only they can decide to change things and only when they fully acknowledge the issue.

It sounds like you'd not only be risking your credit history but your career by marrying this man.

Again as with all addiction there's also all the lies and deception that accompany it.

You need to decide whether you want to remain in the relationship but I think you need to fully understand the potential consequences of doing so.

I've a family full of addicts, inc this one and gambling too (which has similarities) I've witnessed spouses losing their homes, cars etc because of their spouses financial irresponsibility.

Unfortunately as it's still so little known there aren't yet many support groups focused on it but you may find the ones for gambling addicts families helpful?

I suspect you may find there ARE elements of gambling behaviour occurring anyway.

A thorough credit check on him could well be illuminating.

"I would never gamble/drink/whatever because my dad did" sorry but famous last words! Many addictions are learned behaviour.

Even IF you're considering staying with him I'd suggest it be dependent not only on his not having credit cards, full financial transparency etc but on him getting (preferably specialist though it could be hard to access) therapy for the issue. He has tried going "cold turkey" before and failed. He may also benefit from an addiction group/12 step programme.

I hope he doesn’t become resentful having to ask for cash all the time.
If everything else is all your fault, this will be too.
Postpone the wedding for at least a year.
That will take the wind out of his sails as he is using the wedding as a way of controlling you at the moment.

OP, I agree that you definitely need to cancel or postpone the wedding (for a long time). The deceit will continue, because that’s the way these people function, in denial.

My XH went bankrupt twice, once before I met him, and again a few years after our divorce. He built up debt over and over, being bailed out by friends/family, and did that again and again.

Another guy I knew of built up £40k of debt and got bailed out by family to avoid bankruptcy, then did it all over again and went bankrupt anyway.

Your DP won’t change unless he accepts there is a problem. He does need to hand control of the finances to you. He needs to cut up all cards. He needs to accept responsibility for his debt.

DO NOT marry him. If you divorced then debt would be treated as marital debt if you’ve reaped the benefit of holidays etc.

Also, he would be entitled to half your money, inheritance etc, and you could end up with nothing.

Try and keep your finances separate, make sure that the mortgage is paid.

But please don’t marry him. And don’t bail him out.

You're not doing your kids any favours staying together. They'll just grow up without things, it's the opposite of the benefits you imagine from staying together. They're actually going to have a poorer life.

You've received some great advice OP, I just wanted to add another voice of support. You know what you need to do next, it won't be easy but you owe it to yourself and DC. Good luck

My friend was in a very similar situation to you a few years back. Her gut said don’t do it, but the wedding was booked etc. She did go through with it, but left less than a year later. She couldn’t trust him. It’s hard, but it’ll be harder to walk away once married.

It's easy for us all that have not been through this today LTB.

Just remember he has not learned from his previous mistakes, he is still lying to you, being defensive & guilt-tripping you when he is found out and refusing professional help.

If you decide to stay with him please at least protect yourself & the DC by not marrying him. Please also do not remortgage or agree to any joint debt.

Can you look into counselling or other support for yourself? This is a lot to deal with

Thank you again for the responses.

We had another chat over dinner after DC went to bed, I told him that he's doing exactly what his dad did to him and that just because it's not physical abuse and drinking/gambling it doesn't mean the end result won't be the same...that he will leave us penniless and homeless. He got very upset about this point. Don't think he had actually thought about it like that before.

I told him that we won't be remortgaging and it's down to him to pay the loans from now on. He accepted this.

Re the inheritance, I told him it kills me to think we'd have to use it clearing debts, rather than our DCs future or moving back abroad which we'd talked about before. He agreed and doesn't want that either. The good thing is, the money will all go to my DM and won't be 'officially' left to me in any will etc and she will divide it by 4 (Mom, Dad, Sis and me/dc) so if we do get married I can just ask her to keep it in her account until I chose to spend it. Have no concerns that she wouldn't split the money either btw she is absolutely not like that and she and Dad have their own house/money anyway, she's always buying things for other people rather than herself.

He said he would think about counselling again to tackle the bigger issues about why he does what he does etc. He's also acknowledged that his behaviour was unacceptable when confronted and that he went too far.

As you have all suggested, he has asked to postpone the wedding for 6-12 months rather than cancelling, to give him chance to prove that he can and is willing to sort things out. I've said I would think about it but that I need space so he has gone to stay at his friends house who is away for the bank holiday.

I had such a good nights sleep in the bed on my own DC was up at 5.30 though and usually DP gives me a lie in on Sundays

I’m very glad you have talked but I do feel for you that he’s gone to have a weekend alone and you’ve been left with kids that wake up at 5.30am

Sounds like a very good chat. It’s telling that he became very upset when you told him he’s behaving like his father. It’s a shame he won’t go to counselling as it’s obviously his childhood experiences which need exploring and can ultimately stop him repeating history.

I think you should suggest he does look online at debt charity websites. He may find their online advise helpful.

OP, this is your life and your heart may overrule your head here. Some advice. If you do end up staying with him, don’t get married. ‘Postpone’ the planned wedding.

Getting married will make you legally financially tied and you will not escape it if he loses control of his addiction at some point in the future.

That he lost control and shifted blame to you when found out is a very bad sign, you’re in for a bumpy ride whatever happens.

To be fair, DC does not normally wake up so early, normally up at about 7 and I normally get a lie in until 9 on the weekend.

He's already awake himself and just text me asking if he can take DC to his friends who has similar aged DC so they can play together. He said he will tell friend what has been going on and get some sound advice as friend is very financially savvy and helped us with our mortgage etc.

I have a shit load of washing to do but I might just sit and watch tv all day...washing can wait