"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's May 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Sorry I wasn't around yesters, DD and her BF took DP and I out for the day! It's the most alive I've felt in 10 years, although my bones and joints are going to let me know their displeasure the next week or so, but so so very worth it!

It's good to hear you've had therapy Lazy. I think sometimes the term "narcissist" is thrown around too often, but from my reading narcissism has many traits and can range from very low-level, and virtually impossible to identify except by a seasoned professional, to overt behaviour where the dx is obvious - although one paper I read surmised 75% of narcissists are never diagnosed - as they never see they have a problem, or seek help for it.

So now I’m trying to find a way to deal with the emotions/practicalities/difficulties of estrangement. I have had to walk away from quite a lot.

Every single time I read things like this I feel a surge of emotion, both as I feel the sentiment on a personal level, but also because I'm so very sad at what so many other people have also lost. You have my deepest sympathy. And no, your Dad's hands are unclean at this whole debacle. By being emotionally absent he will feel he's absolved of any responsibility, implied or otherwise.

She loved us all dearly, she really is an unselfish and lovely person. However I think she expected me to be unselfish with her, and subservient to others needs.

Hi @MarshmallowHeat

This is seen lots I'm afraid. The years of abuse erode self-esteem and self-worth, and develop the responsive feeling that being subservient is an easy life and is far less likely to invoke abuse.

My dad has another family and treats us like we are equals, but smothers his second family adult kids with attention. I think me and my brothers lost out on parenting. One became an alcoholic, but okay now. The other a fantastic dad, but I’m worried he’s trying to be everything to them. I’m worried he had a one off abuse from another step relation. My other brother told me something happened. I don’t know whether to say anything.

One off sexual abuse? If so, I'd ask you to say nothing. My own sexual abuses were 25 years, older even, and I still feel the overwhelming feelings of shame, guilt, dirtyness as I did then. Sexual abuse does not look favourably on male victims.

You definitely lost out on parenting. It sounds like one of your brothers is "love bombing" his children as he's so scared of the cycle of his childhood repeating.

One of my mother's brothers drank himself to death, it caused him to become homeless. His parents died young, I obviously have no idea of any abuse (I'd be surprised tbh) but alcoholism is a cruel, cruel, master.

The confusion and shame I felt, that I didn’t like him, and everyone asking me why, and my mother being cross with me, lasted until I left. I put up a huge barrier.

Your boundaries, regardless of your age at the time, should have been respected. I'm sad for his poor boundaries, and that you went from one impossible situation to another.

I do blame my father though. He still denies he wasn’t around and seems to want me to treat him like a wise revered respected figure, visiting me once every two years and no calls in between. I’m sick of it b

He will never accept any responsibility for his poor parenting, as any admittance opens the emotional door to him then questioning his behaviour.

Pete Walker audiobook

Triggers the fuck out of me, massively.

Bad news

Hopefully nothing serious but could be. Expecting an investigation in couple weeks, GP is very worried.

Did have some good news yesterday though :)

It's good to hear you've had therapy Lazy. I think sometimes the term "narcissist" is thrown around too often, but from my reading narcissism has many traits and can range from very low-level, and virtually impossible to identify except by a seasoned professional, to overt behaviour where the dx is obvious

Totally get what you are saying.

Every single time I read things like this I feel a surge of emotion, both as I feel the sentiment on a personal level, but also because I'm so very sad at what so many other people have also lost. You have my deepest sympathy.

I’m not fully sure of your back story Steve but that is such a kind thing to say and I feel that for you too. It is really good to have something like this to remind us that we are not alone in our suffering and we have a tribe too.

Sorry to hear about your health concerns. It is torture waiting to get tests and results. I hope things work out. Xx

Hello, have been reading & lurking for a while. Thanks to everyone who has shared on here, whilst trying to find the answers you are helping so many others to not feel alone/see the truth in their backgrounds. Sorry that we are all here though.

Through my latest therapy I have really been looking at my upbringing. It has come up previously, but I am looking at it in a way I haven't before.

I question if my DF actually loves me & DB or even wanted us. He often talks about things from his youth (eg 50 years ago), rarely reminisces about when we were growing up.

Growing up he was irrationally and unpredictably apoplectic, which created an environment of fear. I have read on here about the impact of living in fear. He wasn't interested in our school work, or things we liked. He'd basically opt out of family life when he could.

Having seen him with my DC when younger & also animals, I think he likes small kids/animals that don't talk back....

DM has confirmed (to me as an adult) that she felt we should be able to confront him. She had a narc DM, so we should be able to cope..... So she rarely intervened from what I can recall. I believe she loves us and wants the best for us, but is quite controlling/wants interdependence.

A big issue has been my weight. I struggle to recall much about it as a child, but I think (esp witnessing her as an adult) DM was equally a feeder & also a devotee to diets/dieting mentality expecting thinness from me, despite not managing to achieve it herself. To complement this, DF would get angry about me potentially wearing out the carpet or patio (!) doing keep fit...

I generally feel I am not good enough which I think comes from the mix of the emotionally unavailable & angry DF & DM focusing on my body/weight. I have an eating disorder, DB is in AA....

I don't they were as proactively bad as many experience on here, but I am doing everything I can not to repeat the cycle.

They are still in my life, but I have reduced the contact a bit. I feel like I am gaining clarity about them/our relationship and it is making me want to keep at a distance.

Thanks if you read this far!

Thanks to everyone who has shared on here, whilst trying to find the answers you are helping so many others to not feel alone/see the truth in their backgrounds.

I once read/watched/heard the line somewhere "you've found your answers, I'm still looking for mine" but found it to be quite selfish whereas what you posted here is simply beautiful. I think I speak for all of you when I say we're all learning and every post on these SH threads is an opportunity to learn.

• Growing up he was irrationally and unpredictably apoplectic, which created an environment of fear. I have read on here about the impact of living in fear.

I think he likes small kids/animals that don't talk back....

I've posted the links below (ACEs too high) and namedropped the "Childhood Disrupted" book - but this highlights perfectly why Adverse Childhood Experiences are so damaging, and their intertwining with CUTS (Chronic Unpredictable Toxic Stress). So you'd be doing your keep fit, then boom you have your father blowing up about apart the carpet. No doubt there would have been many other, some people can even detail 100 or more of these incidences.

DM has confirmed (to me as an adult) that she felt we should be able to confront him. She had a narc DM, so we should be able to cope..... So she rarely intervened from what I can recall. I believe she loves us and wants the best for us, but is quite controlling/wants interdependence.

You were a child. An innocent, pure, child being asked to deal with a man prone to frightening, astonishing fits of temper. Yet you should have been expected to deal? No. Your mother made the decisions to shack up with a man like this, and to have child(ren), and to then effectively support a man like this rather than leaving. I appreciate it isn't always super easy, but it is possible, and you and any siblings should have had her absolute priority.

Even if scared, your story does not paint her in a good light and she appears a weak woman more concerned about herself than her children.

So she rarely intervened from what I can recall. I believe she loves us and wants the best for us, but is quite controlling/wants interdependence.

Weak. It's highly relevant your mother had a narcissistic mother herself, as narcissism is known to transcend generationally. We learn many things from our parents, including how to raise a child, and many relationship/life boundaries.

Yet you, and many others on these threads with narcissistic parents seem to have bucked the trend. Your mother is still the weak woman she was during your childhood and she is totally invested in herself, plus will only ever want a relationship on her terms. If you ever chose to confront her about your childhood in detail, you would be mistaken, it wasn't like that, or other bollocks design to obfuscate the past and make you question your memories.

• I generally feel I am not good enough which I think comes from the mix of the emotionally unavailable & angry DF & DM focusing on my body/weight. I have an eating disorder, DB is in AA....

I don't they were as proactively bad as many experience on here, but I am doing everything I can not to repeat the cycle.

They are still in my life, but I have reduced the contact a bit. I feel like I am gaining clarity about them/our relationship and it is making me want to keep at a distance. *

Yes, it's very common for us to question ourselves like this, and I'd be lying if I said it's an easy path. The best advice I can give is that you never had a chance being born into such an environment, and it's this that engenders your feelings now. Have you had therapy? I think it's very important to mourn what we've lost as a direct result of toxic, dysfunctional, childhoods.

Reducing contact is a great start, going full NC even better. It's an "a-ha" moment when you receive clarity, and it makes my heart sing every time I read it.

You have exceptional insight, something that's becoming more common to see on these threads, it's truly delightful to see.

Repeat the cycle? You? Not bloody likely, you have substantial empathy.

Read "Childhood Disrupted", and "Toxic Parents", and I'm sorry for what you've been through.

• I’m not fully sure of your back story Steve but that is such a kind thing to say and I feel that for you too. It is really good to have something like this to remind us that we are not alone in our suffering and we have a tribe too.

Sorry to hear about your health concerns. It is torture waiting to get tests and results. I hope things work out. Xx*

Aww, thanks lazy. Bless you. Just a cancer thing GP and consultant are very worried about...

My backstory is all over these threads this past few years, I won't bore you! These threads have saved my life, no question.

I will get to you so @SimplySteveRedux I am slowly progressing through the Stately Homes threads from the start. It will take me a while, I am a slow reader.

You write really awesome insightful posts. You have figured out so much more of the broader picture than I ever will.

I’m sorry @Lettherightonein3 it sounds like you were abandoned by your Dad. I could have written this too
I question if my DF actually loves me & DB or even wanted us. He often talks about things from his youth (eg 50 years ago), rarely reminisces about when we were growing up.

My father constantly says how fantastic we are as people. Me and DB, However I’ve never heard him talk about our upbringing either. It’s like an anchor isn’t there in my life. He has no idea.

@SimplySteveRedux thank you so much for taking time and responding. How kind of you. I’m only just realizing stuff really. I always knew my childhood was tough compared to many of my friends, however the loyalty to my parents and trying to make the best of things, meant I only talked about it very positively to others. I felt lucky, others had it way worse.

You write really awesome insightful posts.

Me? Nah. Attila, toomuch and Lily on the other hand...

I’m only just realizing stuff really. I always knew my childhood was tough compared to many of my friends, however the loyalty to my parents and trying to make the best of things, meant I only talked about it very positively to others. I felt lucky, others had it way worse.

We're all still learning, it's like driving from London to Sydney (ignoring the water...). Abusive, emotionally absent, neglectful childhoods are just that, and I think it takes until adulthood to realise just how bad things were. Parental love and loyalty is an inbuilt thing, takes until early secondary school, and later, for that to begin to equalise with our treatment and can take years...decades.

The "grass is greener" approach is something inbuilt to us all.

Social Services, whatever your opinion of them, forcibly remove the most children in the 5 to 14 bracket because of parental loyalty (even if they don't exert their powers enough in anyone over 12).

Sorry @Lettherightonein3 I skimmed this part.

I generally feel I am not good enough

This is a feeling that plagues all of us, and it's built from the conditioning we received whilst growing up. It's something that, even with therapy, is likely to remain in the back of our minds forever, sadly, but by having the sheer strength to realise what our childhoods actually were, and to have the insight to question things in our heads makes us more than good enough.

Also, pretty much every post I have read on the SH threads over 5+ years shows a level of insight and empathy. Despite being ground down and conditioned, abused, neglected, over years these qualities still remain. I think this is fantastic and testament to our inner strength.

Good enough? You are more than good enough. It's your parents who weren't.

I wonder could anyone advise me. I am nc with dm with no clear reason (well constant criticism and she has mental health issues which I can deal with but not the attacks on me).

The thing is I just needed a break and she was looking to go on holiday with me. Wanting the dc to stay but she has fallen out with friends and now I am one of the only ones left. She often says I'm boring and has no interest in my life. It's all about her needs and options.

The problem is grandchildren and I also do love her. But I have ignored calls for weeks and she has popped in several times (was at work). But what do I say to her. She rang dh and asked what had they done (dfather and her). I have no response. On this particular occasion she has done nothing.

Yet it's years and years of nonsense. We can't go away on holiday but there is a phone call that she's 'sick'. Yet she will go away on holiday and nothing Is the matter at all. What can I do?

Chilledout11, let me get this right...your mother is "sick" but wants to go on holiday anyway. She thinks you are boring and she has no interest in your life but she has fallen out with her friends so there is only "boring, uninteresting" you left to go on holiday with. Even though she's sick.

She's called around a few times but you've been at work. Presumably, she knows you work and has a rough idea of your working hours. That suggests to me that she's avoiding you while pretending not to avoid you (because she's the "nice" one and you are the "crazy" or over-sensitive one). At the same time, you are ignoring her calls (did she ever, during those calls, leave a voicemail or a text asking how you were? How your DC were? I'm going to guess the answer is no).

There's lots of game-playing going on there, Chilled. It's exhausting, isn't it? You see, you are doing exactly what you are not supposed to do. You are ignoring her calls, putting your own family first, getting on with your life (however boring and uninteresting she dismisses it as being) and generally not putting her first, second, third and centre. Not allowed!

What should you do? Well, in your shoes, I would do exactly what you are doing now. Grey rock. Keep a distance. Don't respond. Be unavailable. If she does manage to catch up with you and puts the holiday question to you, then it's a simple "No, that doesn't work for me" - no further explanation required. If she says "What have I done?", say, "What do you mean?" and put the ball back in her court. Answer a question with a question. Put it back on her toes. She'll tire of it before you do.

How is your DH with all of this? Does he understand and is he supportive of you?

You write really awesome insightful posts.

Actually, Steve, you do!

Hi, new here. Want to post about my experiences and perhaps get advice. Can't believe I'm just realising it now, I'm in my 30s, but I'm now realising I think my parents emotionally neglected me, especially my dad. This has made me into an adult with many mental health issues and anxieties. Like severe social anxiety and a difficulty trusting others. Sure I was fed and had a roof over my head, I wasn't physically abused or anything. They weren't alcoholics or drug addicts. So I think I couldn't pin point exactly what it was or I would say to myself "it could have been worse".

I feel that my parents, especially my dad were not that interested in me growing. It was clear to me that my dad's hobbies and tv watching were far more important than me. I wasn't allowed to utter a word or a sound while he was watching his precious football matches. My dad never asked how my day was or how school was etc. They both never checked I was doing my homework, and I don't ever remember them helping me with my homework. They never pushed me to do any extra curriculum activities and because I was quite lazy as a child/ teenager I spent most of my free time playing computer games and watching TV. I remember one summer when I was a young teenager and I spent alot of the time, whole days, in my room playing computer games in my pyjamas and my parents were not concerned at all. They also didn't take much of an interest in the things I was interested in. I remember my dad saying some of my interests were "weird". I remember my dad would put me down with snide jokey comments when I was young. He is a very childish man and would yell over the tiniest of things, at me and my mum. He will also will take offence and sulk over the smallest things. He was more childish than me when I was a child. He is also always right and never admits if he is wrong and he never says sorry. He however remembers every single thing, even small things, that you have done wrong from years ago but never amits to anything he has done wrong. He also uses alot of emotional blackmail, like if fathers day card is late he will say something like "you don't love me". Growing up he repeatedly told me if I ever did such and such (like dating a black man, my dad is a very racist man) he would disown me and he would never speak to me again. I remember one thing he said "no one ever helped me so why should I help you". I don't remember the context of conversation but I still remember him saying that over 15 years ago and it still stings thinking about it. I wasn't allowed friends over to the house ever because the said they were embarrassed the house was a mess. My best friend from primary school after drifting apart because I moved school visited my house when I was in secondary school after years of not seeing each other but my dad told me to tell her to go because she isn't allowed in the house. I still feel bad when I think about it. Both parents would also both complain to me about each other. They still do.

Reading toxic parents book and the chapter inadequate parents and parts of the controllers is ringing true for my parents, especially my dad. Thanks for reading.

I can relate to that completely, PandaAtTheZoo. I'd always known my mother was not like other mums. I knew that other children had families completely different to my own. They had parents who were emotionally available to them, openly affectionate, supportive, interested in their school work and their hopes and dreams. That was alien to me. Happy family activities, even birthdays - all alien to me. Even as a child, I felt like an onlooker watching a play about how other people live, but it wasn't real life because it wasn't what I knew.

Sure I was fed and had a roof over my head, I wasn't physically abused or anything.

Feeding you and putting a roof over your head was the bare minimum required by the law. A local authority home provides at least this much. However, parents are - and should be - held to a higher standard. They are meant to guide you, teach you, protect you, encourage and support your development - at least until the day when you are of age, legally, and able to stand on your own two feet. Your parents failed you, Panda. Your father ignored you, dismissed you, shredded your confidence at every opportunity with his "jokey" comments. Where was your mother in all of this? What did she do to protect you? Or did she just stand back and let your father belittle you? I think I know the answer. While he was sniping at you, he was leaving her alone so she didn't stand up to him.

Emotional abuse leaves no obvious scars. There are no bruises you can point to as tangible evidence of the hurt. The scars are invisible - but they are there nonetheless. It's sad but not at all surprising that you suffer from anxiety and find it difficult to trust. This is what your parents have done to you so please don't think that this means your hurt is any the less. It's not.

You deserved better, Panda, so much better. I'm glad you found your way here.

SingingLily thanks for the lovely reply
Even as a child, I felt like an onlooker watching a play about how other people live omg I have felt like this my whole life.

Good question, where was my mother. Yes she just stood by and allowed his shitty behaviour. She just put up with him for an easy life I think. I would have been better off if she divorced him or bare minimum stood up to him. She also stood by and let him try to poison my mind with his awful racism (things that he would say are too awful to even write down). She never once said anything against what he was saying. For some reason she is still married to him and just enables his shitty behaviour. I'm torn because on one hand I feel sorry that she has to walk on egg shells and put up with my father still and for so long but on the other hand she could have stood up to him and walked away and minimised my contact with him growing up.

SingingLily do you mind if I ask how much contact you have with your parents? My toddler likes spending time with my parents, my mum in particular so I feel bad if I reduce contact with them but I don't like having to see my dad so often.

She often says I'm boring and has no interest in my life
if someone else said this to you you'd probably think 'fuck you too' and avoid the person, your mother isnt behaving like a mother so you dont need to treat her like your mother.
Disengage, be a grey rock, treat her like a grey rock

For some reason she is still married to him and just enables his shitty behaviour. I'm torn because on one hand I feel sorry that she has to walk on egg shells and put up with my father still and for so long but on the other hand she could have stood up to him and walked away and minimised my contact with him growing up.

I'm sorry to say this to,you, Panda, because it will be hard to hear. Your mother is part of the problem and this is because she made a choice. Her primary duty as a mother was to protect you, her child, but she didn't. She chose to let him treat you like this while she shrugged her shoulders, looked helpless and did nothing. She chose him, over you. She will always choose him over you. Your mother is doing exactly what my father did. He spent years walking on eggshells around M, placating her, mopping up after her, trying to minimise the harm she actively caused to their children, making excuses for her. It took me a long long time to see that he was part of the problem too, because he enabled her vile behaviour. I am still dealing with the damage from that realisation.

I tried low contact for a while with my parents. Ironic really, because I was so fed up of being my mother's punching bag that I just wanted to cut her out of my life but didn't do so at first...because my father pleaded with me not to. At that time, I was still labouring under the misapprehension that my father loved me, that he was as much her victim as I was, that he needed my support. It was a bitter lesson when I realised the truth. He needed me to be her punching bag because it took the pressure off him. It reached a point where M decided to punish me by sending me to Coventry for a few weeks (this was the worst possible sanction in her rule book - to be deprived of her presence).

Trouble was, Coventry was a pretty good place to be. It was the first time in a very long time that I felt at peace, not having to put up with her nastiness. When the time came for my punishment to be over (this would have entailed my crawling back and begging forgiveness for something I hadn't done)....I didn't respond. I ignored the summons.

Now I am NC with them and have been for nearly eleven months. Panda, the sheer bliss!

As for my father - well, what I'm hearing is that he's bearing the brunt now instead. But he nurtured the problem in the first place. As your mother is doing.

Please think about the dynamics of your parents' relationship and the implications for your toddler. How long before your child is old enough to notice the way their grandfather treats their Mum? And sees that as the way family relationships must be? How long before your child is old enough to start forming their own personality, their own likes and dislikes, and your father decides to start cutting them down to size by more of his "jokey" comments? This is a problem already in the making, Panda, and something I urge you to start thinking about now.

@SingingLily
I had a similar experience, my mother tried that as the ultimate punishment, it kinda backfired on her
And yes the passive father, actually I now I wonder if he was quietly controlling her triggering her rages with his passive aggressive behaviour so that she would rant at me, he was pulling the strings all along, that bastard.
When I was a child I saw him as the good parent but he never defended me
I see you now dad, I see you for what you are

I even remember the summons, it came via someone else instructing me that I should make an apology
It's been about 25 years now
I'm a veteran of these psychic wars

It's a jolt, Ultraego, when the jigsaw pieces finally fall into place, isn't it? It was aussiebean who opened my eyes. Something she said about her father struck a chord with me and then I remembered what my DBiL had said a long time ago: that my father makes the bullets and my mother fires them. At the time, I dismissed it. No, no, I said, Dad would never do that; it's M who's the problem. But then everything clicked into place and I realised that theirs is truly a team effort.

They are two halves of the same crappy whole. And you can't separate them.

SingingLily
Yes she has always choose him over me. There has been so many red flags with him as well, like he did something stupid and lost his job when I was a baby and we were homeless and had to live with my grandparents, yet she didnt leave him. Her parents said to her that my father wasn't good enough for her and complained about his behaviour, yet she didn't leave him. My mum even complains to me about his behaviour for as long as I can remember, yet she does not not leave him. The only reason I can think of is that she is afraid to go it alone. It is hard to come to terms with her being part of the problem.

I am very worried about the dynamics of my parents relationship and the implications for my child and what my father may say or how he may act. I don't want my son to see my father sulking like a child and think that's acceptable behaviour for an adult. I don't want him to put him down with his jokey comments. I'm most worried about him saying his awful racist shit infront of my son.

I have also held a slight animosity towards my mother for a long time but never really understood why, since it wasn't her behaviour that was the worst. But it must be because of this!

The only reason I can think of is that she is afraid to go it alone.

No, Panda. She needs him. He needs her. They are locked into a mutually dependent and wholly dysfunctional relationship, one that requires you as a safety value, there to bear the brunt for both of them. It's hard for you and I to understand, because neither of us are driven by the need to make someone else pay for our dissatisfaction and anger.

This is not a healthy family dynamic - you know that. You suffered because of that. You are still suffering. However, you have in your hands the chance to break the cycle and protect your little boy from the insidious harm it causes. Your mother won't. She failed to protect you and she will fail to protect your little son, because she - they - are incapable of change. So I urge you to do it instead.

My DSis made that decision. She deliberately put a huge distance between our toxic parents and her two little girls and there is no contact between them now.

Lying here awake feeling my unborn dc kick and still raging from a phone call 2 nights ago to 88 yr GM. I’ll try and keep it short but basically she ended the call with have nice life... she has always sided with my alcohol abusing toxic dm as the rest of us have ‘shit all over her’ and she’s doesn’t deserve it.
DM has been a nasty vicious alcoholic since I was 13 and I’m nearly 36. She has driven everyone away with her behaviour including her own brother and his wife , her husband (my df) , me and all friends but to GM she is the golden girl who can’t put a foot wrong. I have been NC for precisely a year now after a few final straws. Using GM against me is the only weapon she has left in her arsenal now. As I kept repeating to GM , DM has major problems but will point blank refuse to admit she has a problem with alcohol and will absolutely not seek help for it in any fashion. GM just believes her when she tells her she is tea total. This is total bs and like a lot of people with her problem DM has become a compulsive lier in regards to how much she drinks. For example when I still lived at home she had a hidden barcadi bottle in the kitchen which she would swig from, getting noticeably more unstable as the day went on, then would lie to your face that she’d even touched a drop.
It beggars belief with my own situation and reading threads on here how utterly delusional and on another planet some people can be.
23 years of this bullshit
I can’t talk to anyone in RL apart from other ppl she’s abused. I don’t know what it is but you can see them turn physically uncomfortable . Like they don’t believe she is that bad or it makes them uncomfortable as they had a good relationship with their dm who is now gone and it somehow offends them that I can’t stand my own dm.