Dealing with adult temper tantrums

[PointdeVue]

I'm writing after a big argument with my wife, and I realise every side has two stories, and I'm going to try to be as objective as possible.

My wife and I have disagreements about tidiness, which I guess is common enough, but whereas I think most people can meet in the middle, every so often, my wife will end up having a temper tantrum that is uncontrollable.

We went away this weekend to visit family, and we had a great family. I was the last person to leave the house on Thursday when we left. My wife is quite insistent about a number of jobs that I have to do before I leave the house. I'd put the blinds down, emptied the bin, unplugged the toaster, etc. When we got back on Monday evening, she immediately saw that the dishwasher had been left with the clean dishes in after the cycle had finished, there were some plates on the drying rack (dry), and the surface, by her standards, wasn't clean enough.

She starts screaming at the top of her voice at me, and I can't control her. She is saying how she hates me. I tried to keep calm, and I pointed out that we shouldn't shout. She continues screaming, and she ends up pouring a jug of water over me.

We sit in different rooms for a while, and when I go to bed, she screams for me to get out of bed. When I go to sleep in the guest bed, she screams to get out of the guest bed.

Eventually, next day she comes home, and starts screaming again. We have a guest, and when they go, she starts screaming again. I'm just trying to get some peace here and go and watch TV. When I go to bed, she ends up waking me at 2 in the morning to show me how to clean the kitchen properly (at one point, she even said she was thinking of killing herself over the cleanliness). Today, I am now exhausted.

I've tried to explain to her that her screaming and over-reaction is so out of normality, that I don't know how to react. She however thinks my tidiness in the kitchen is the real problem, whereas it seems clear to me that her reaction is the major problem. It would have taken less than five minutes to clean up the mess when we came home on Monday.

She says I don't take her seriously on the cleanliness, and to be honest, it's true. I'm not a neat freak, but I'm also fairly average in that regard. She sees my "messiness" as a big "fuck you" to her.

Most of the time, she is lovely, and I would say we have similar instances a few times a year (maybe around four times) where she flies off the handle. She doesn't seem to recognise the problem.

I know that many would say if it were the other way around, I should just leave, but I don't want to, and I love her, and I think we should be able to find a way around it.

I'd be grateful for any help, and also anything I might be missing. I want to see things from her point of view. Thanks

What would happen if you lost your shit and shouted back, told her you're sick of walking on eggshells and listening to her batshit screaming tantrums can't live like this she needs help and you're done, and walked out?

Please watch a programme on BBC3 -'Abused by my girlfriend'. The girlfriend in question seemed sweetness & light, even when she was being questioned by the police, but was highly manipulative & abusive to her boyfriend. Coercive control. I'm mentioning this because she used to wake him up by pouring kettles of boiling water over him.

I believe your wife to be abusive. Her behaviour has gone far beyond normal. I'm not even sure you could blame hormones or mental illness for this. Hopefully your wife's behaviour won't be allowed to escalate because you'll take action. Watch the programme and have a think.

Pointdevue your wife is abusive - simple as that.
You do need to speak to an organisation for advice.
It’s very cruel and bordering on torture - to wake someone up - to show you her standards - tell her to do it herself if it’s not to her liking.
She is abusing you. She tells you to get out of bed in the middle of the night, has poured water over you and verbally abuses you.
If she has OCD then she needs help. That’s up to her.
You need to set your boundaries higher. She’s a bully - I bet she’s not like this with anyone else.
Do not have children with her.

She is absolutely deranged.

I mean, most domestic abusers say sorry and cry and repent and howl and wail with remorse (until the next time).

But that she knows its bad enough not to do it in front of anyone else, but she STILL expresses no remorse? Wow. That's sociopathic.

And she has the audacity to say your behaviour is a fuck you! Her behaviour is a thousand times more of a fuck you!

You need to stop being a guy about this. You sound stoic and unemotional. But you're not gonna get any medals here for keeping everything controlled so much. It will impact your own mental health and I suspect it has already. You are already walking on Eggshells. I bet last night you were in a state of high tension cleaning that kitchen. Checking and rechecking for crumbs. Allow yourself to check your own mental temperature. I bet its not so great.

There is a quote I've heard often here "You have to put on your own life jacket first". And you certainly cant put on the life jacket of someone who refuses to believe they need one, and gets angry at you for suggesting it. No. You put on your own first. But that means you recognise that the situation warrants one.

So what would that look like for you? Well certainly posting on here was a tentative reach for one. Acknowledging it's abuse is getting your fingertips closer. Perhaps reaching out to one of the men's organisations linked above if you need a man's verification of it being abuse would be actually pulling the life jacket beside you, even if you're not ready to put it on yet.

But it is domestic abuse. It really is.

Greenberet, we never have the other side of the story on MN. So we are polite, and believe what the OP tells us. Sometimes we read between the lines, sure, but we don't blatantly say that they are lying and that the abuse is their fault, as that's what's known as victim-blaming.
You're not the only one on MN to have been diagnosed with depression.
"Unwell" is a valid description for someone showing signs of having mental health issues.

The situation escalates because he provokes it

greenberet just please stop. We all know you loathe your ex with every fibre of your being, but this is not the time to blame the man.

I’m not blaming either of them I’m also not saying the op is lying or the abuse is his fault- I’ve given a different perspective - I asked for more information.

Unwell I accept - unhinged i find an abusive term!

I’m actually astounded by some of these comments because I find them extreme - that’s why I ask questions before passing comment - but maybe I still have an awful lot to learn

Elspeth - “loathe my ex with every fibre of my being” no not anymore I’ve moved on from this!

If I still felt like this I would be telling the op to get the hell out of there without a second thought rather than to talk and listen to each other!

Greenberet, which question would you like me to answer? Sorry if I’ve missed things. From my wife’s perpectives, she sees things that she has told me to do time and time again, and she does say she is frustrated with me not doing everything. I’m trying to be as even handed and as objective as I can here

OP, as if you need to hear it again, your wife's behaviour is completely unacceptable. One human being does not have the right to treat another human being in the manner you have described here, full stop. There is no justification or excuse for this. Not stress. Not mental illness. Not hormones. Not mismatched personalities. Not you not being tidy enough. Not oh it's only a handful of times a year and she's OK the rest of the time. Nothing. The only saving grace is that you don't have children together - the damage this would do to them would be significant. Please think very carefully about whether you want this for the next 30 or so years.

OP you said this

She says I don't take her seriously on the cleanliness, and to be honest, it's true. I'm not a neat freak, but I'm also fairly average in that regard. She sees my "messiness" as a big "fuck you" to her.

Why don’t you take her seriously on this?

Does she have OCD tendancies or just like the kitchen cleaned in a certain way -

Some of your choice of words imply that you think her standards are abnormal ie “ neat Freak”

What is “fairly average”

I used to clean the kitchen to “my way” every evening as I was mainly the one who used it and would like to come down in the morning to a clean kitchen as I’d left it.

My Ds took to cooking himself food after I’d gone to bed - sometimes leave crumbs on the counter leave pans behind - I asked him to tidy up over and over again - sometimes I shouted- made not the slightest bit of difference - he doesn’t see it as an issue doesn’t see why it bothers me - I take it as a lack of respect to my cleaning standards and my preferences possibly a “ fuck you”

I could have carried on asking him to tidy up but it felt like banging my own head against a brick wall - I could have thrown him out because sometimes I got a mouthful of abuse back.

BUt I have tried to look at the bigger picture - he has a lot of stress too he is doing exams - some will say it doesn’t matter he needs to tidy up - I could go on and on at him but it is only making me suffer

Relationships are about give and take - I want a relationship with my son so I “take” this on. Sometimes he does things unexpectedly which shows he does respect me.

Sometimes it is impossible to get others to change but you can make changes yourself - maybe if you took her seriously regardless of your own judgement on her cleaning standards your relationship may improve

If these incidents were completely none of the OPs doing he would be out of there - he would not be cooking dinner!
However much to blame OP might be for his wife's anger, he is not to blame for his wife's behaviour. Don't conflate the two.

People don't just get out of there. The behaviour may have become normalised; they might think it is their fault and that they can avoid it simply by "cleaning better" etc. They may be worn down by other more subtle put-downs into thinking that this is the best they can expect.

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if I've missed something, but this is abusive Behaviour.

I see you are going to chat to her and see if she is willing to accept she needs to do something. That's a good first step if that's what you would like to do, it she has to see there's fault and not pass it back to you saying it's your fault for not doing it properly.

I have OCD but I certainly don't expect my partner to have the same standards as me, I know it's my issue and am aware it's my problem.

The fact she won't even apologize suggests she doesn't even see she has done anything wrong. I know you say it doesn't happen that much, but I bet you ate on eggshells because you never know when it's going to happen, and I bet you worry about when she comes in from work, or forgetting to do something.

I've been there and it's no fun to walk on eggshells, I didn't even realize I was doing it until my ex moved out and I realized how differently I felt.

Why don’t you take her seriously on this?

What I mean by that is that I don't truly understand why I don't place the same level of importance to the tidiness as my wife does because of the strength of her reaction.

Take the incident this week. When we came home and she saw the dishwasher had clean dishes in it, and there were a few dry clean plates in the rack, I would have seen it as a five minute job to clean up, rather than something that requires two days of screaming and shouting. I wouldn't have thought twice about it.

I don't think I'm lazy. For example, last night, I cooked dinner, and after dinner, my wife got up and read on the couch while I did the dishes. If she were that fussed, she would help herself. There's a good chance though she'll come along later and tell me I did something wrong.

While I'm not perfect, I do my fair share, and I don't question or shout at her for her not doing her share. I see that we're two imperfect people, trying to lead a nice life, without the need for shouting and blame.

Op there is something going on with your wife - she doesn’t hate you - she hates herself - she is out of control somewhere deep inside - I asked about how long you have been married how long trying for a baby - who’s family was it yours hers - any babies there ?

She’s trying to get you to listen but she doesn’t know how to say to you what’s really bothering her - she’s scared - she thinks you don’t respect her or love her because you don’t do the things she asks - little things to you big to her - it’s not about the cleaning - this is just what she can vocalise -

I don’t know I maybe completely off piste here

Rewriting that, I mean that I don't truly understand why she places so much importance to imperfections in the order on the work-surface that could be tidied up relatively quickly.

We're not a household where dirty dishes are left around for days or food left to fester in the fridge.

I don’t agree with this
However much to blame OP might be for his wife's anger, he is not to blame for his wife's behaviour. Don't conflate the two.

Unless the op is knowingly and deliberately doing something to make his wife angry he is not to blame for her anger either. Her emotions are hers and her responsibility only - just as with her behaviour.

In relation to the dishes which you say were a five minute job why didn’t you do them before you left

Is there a trade off for your list of jobs - what does your wife pick up in return

Maybe you don’t understand - I get that - but it’s obviously important to her - was there something in her childhood - are her parents the same ?

I think this is the “ front” for some deeper issues that are coming to the surface

Next time she pours water over you it could be boiling!

I see that it is important to her. If anything, her parents are a bit messy (although definitely in normal bounds)

What else have her “tantrums” been about

The idea that OP is to blame for having water thrown over them or being dumped in the countryside is shameful.
No one is ever responsible for the abuse they receive.

There have been several about cleanliness, and buying the wrong type of bacon, once before.

greenberet my ex was filth and laziness personified. He'd spend hours, gaming, surrounded by days worth of dirty dishes. They didn't even make it to the sink. I despised him for it (and for the emotional abuse that he laid on thick) but that would not have excused me treating him like the OP is being treated. As for the emotional abuse I was on the receiving end of, he had some mental health issues of his own, but I was buggered if I was going excuse his treatment of me and my family, on those grounds. I'd already stayed with him for far too long, being the boiling frog, before I realised how hot the water was and why.

Actually they can be responsble for the abuse they receive - some abusers will goad their victims into an abusive reaction purely to claim they are the ones being abused

A recognised strategy among professionals.

Just to avoid any doubt - I am NOT saying this is the case here!