Would you be with someone who says being gay is unnatural?

[joliejoleen]

This man that I've been seeing thinks that being gay is unnatural. He wouldn't go out in the street and protest against gay people or ever attack them. He just thinks that being gay is unnatural and doesn't want his children to grow up thinking being gay is okay because it isn't. Would you ltb?

Yy, Empress. The hypocrisy of the “new” homophobes is breathtaking, and sickening.

And to further clarify my post upthread, the point here is that while this thread shows that “old school” homophobia is seen as massively unacceptable, this new type of homophobia is being promoted as not only acceptable but desirable; is being touted as the last word in social justice.

Anyone who truly cares about social justice and lesbian/gay rights (which I assume is everyone replying that OP should LTB on those grounds) should have a look at what’s going on in current LGBT politics. It’s really very interesting.

Hear, hear Empress. Stonewall jumped the shark some time ago.

And yy Talking.

Sounds even more complicated than it did before tbh. I guess I am behind the times.

Sorry ravenmum - not trying to be complicated!

So... lesbians are female homosexuals. We’re biological women who are sexually attracted to other biological women.

Some people think that we have no right to reject penis. The bloke the thread’s about seems to think that. Stonewall nowadays think that too.

I think that the posters who are angry about this bloke should also be angry with Stonewall.

Homophobia is hateful. He has not expressed hate.

I would not want my DDs to have children outside of marriage. That doesn't mean I would love them any less if they did.

An opinion is not automatic hate. To think so, is myopic IMO.

I would say it isn’t really complicated, ravenmum. Either you support the right of women (and men) to have a sexual orientation that excludes ALL members of the opposite sex, or you don’t.

But I can see how it looks complicated when Stonewall itself can’t subscribe to that any more. The missing part of this picture is, of course, the bottom line. There is money in them thar “trans rights” hills. Funding. Lots and lots of it.

It is a difficult topic to get your head around when all you want to do is be nice to people. Unfortunately not everyone in the world wants to play nicely and some use very underhand tactics to get what they want; that’s the world we live in and have to deal with, and sometimes, if you really care about social justice and protecting the most vulnerable, that means thinking about confusing, apparently conflicting, unpalatable issues.

But obviously caring about this issue, or any other, is every individual’s choice. There are so many injustices in the world: no one can care about everything. It’s just if people care enough about homophobia to comment on this thread, maybe they’ll care enough to look into what’s going on behind the scenes in the current LGBT movement.

I think that the posters who are angry about this bloke should also be angry with Stonewall.

In a nutshell, Empress!

I would love to see this bloke's face if presented the idea that he's against lesbians' right to reject the penis.

OK I will watch out who I agree with and not assume that if you are against one sort of exclusion then you're against all sorts. Tbf I'm sure I am bigoted in some way or another and just don't know it. (I'd still rather stick to someone with at least my own level of ignorance, though.)

No way, I wouldn’t hesitate in ditching the Luddite.

No I wouldn't be with someone who thought that

He doesn’t want his children thinking it’s OK to be gay? What happens if his children ARE gay?

@outvoid you may want to look up ‘luddite’

If you stay with him you won't really be able to go out in public situations with him OR have children with him. Children can be gay so he would be a horrendous father to those children. If you are with friends and he says his views you will probably lose friends. Basically stay with him if you are happy to be a hermit.

I would love to see this bloke's face if presented the idea that he's against lesbians' right to reject the penis.

Well, if he thinks it's unnatural for women not to be attracted to males it comes down to the same thing!

As for exclusion - I think that when it's about sexuality exclusion is perfectly OK. It's fine for me to exclude males from the range of people I'd have sex with. It's equally fine for a straight woman to exclude females.

If it’s a new relationship then yes I’d consider getting rid of him.

However if it’s a 10yr marriage with kids in the mix then I’d put up with the bigotry.

I don't think homosexuality is 'normal' nor is being Trans. However there is a lot of diversity in our makeup so neither do I think that they are weird, just different. Tolerance for others when they are just living their life their way is fine. I'd support any child or family member if they came out as gay or trans but I still wouldn't think it the norm.

Yup, would 100% leave. I've dropped friends and a hairdresser over this too.

What part of "I don't want my children to think it's OK because it isn't" is not hateful?

Homophobia is hateful. He has not expressed hate. [...]An opinion is not automatic hate. To think so, is myopic IMO.

I think you'll find that even wikipedia doesn't let you get away with that one:

Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality (Wiki)

That is, if we are reading the same OP.

Big, the word the OP's charming boyfriend used is 'unnatural'. He thinks being gay is 'unnatural', and doesn't want his children growing up 'thinking being gay is ok because it isn't'.

I don't think he can be let off with any equivocation about percentages of gay people within the general population meaning it's not 'the norm' statistically.

I wouldnt want my children to be gay, simply because of all the shit that comes with being gay! My dad is bisexual and I have two gay brothers.

Not forgetting that demographics-wise, our society will be less tolerant of homosexuality in the very near future.

You can look anywhere and come up with a range of definitions.

Having or showing a dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people.

Where is his prejudice or dislike.

His view is not expressing a dislike or hate.

Like I said, I want my DDs to get married before having children. That's something I have expressed my view of to them.

That doesn't mean I hate anyone or show a prejudice towards anyone who has kids and isn't married. It's just not my choice and not a choice I'd want them to make.

Far more important is the way someone behaves in their daily life, than their feelings about sexual orientation.

I have a diverse range of friends and they make a range of personal life choices. I would not make some of those choices myself... but I accept individuals for who they are and their right to individual choice, whatever that may be.

I'm black. I have white friends...I know some of them would never have a relationship with a black person, but that doesn't make them racist to me. It's their individual choice. They don't have a negative view towards me and they would never treat a black person less favourably.

think you'll find that even wikipedia doesn't let you get away with that one

You do know anyone and everyone can update wiki right?

I've done it myself on a page I thought was factually incorrect about my country of origin.

What's natural? Normal? The norm? Average? What's the definition?

I'm a type 1 diabetic since birth, Ds2 is ginger. We must be in the top 1%

I wouldn't probably choose for my children to be gay. and certainly not trans -how traumatic is that journey!!

I don't give a shit if you're gay bi or whatever, doesn't bother me. but I don't think you can class it as the norm and besides doesn't everyone just want their children to be happy, normal with an easy route through life? nothing distinguishing or traumatic? so yeah I probably wouldn't choose for my children to be gay given the choice!!

There's a fine line/difference between not wishing something, not choosing, hating, and being Aggressively homophobic!

That's my point, Sandy -- Wiki is endlessly re-edited stuff, and what tends to stay up longer than two minutes is a fairly uncontroversial middle-ground. Therefore its definition of homophobia is uncontroversial, bog standard stuff.

And I have no idea why you are comparing what the OP's boyfriend said to your preference for your children to marry before having a child, or that your white friends wouldn't date someone from another ethnicity, far less suggesting that this man's voiced homophobia is somehow safe and theoretical.

Far more important is the way someone behaves in their daily life, than their feelings about sexual orientation

And you wouldn't include telling his girlfriend that being gay is 'unnatural' and that he wouldn't want his children growing up to think it was ok as 'behaviour'? For you it's only an issue if he starts spitting at same sex couples holding hands, or picketing gay weddings?