I think my DH is having a breakdown

[Mercier1]

Don’t want to dripfeedbbut there so much detail to this. Long story short at the end of last year we moved house and a week later had a baby that arrived a little early. We weren’t really prepared for him (no bag packed etc) but never mind. There was a lot of arguing in the run up and my DH is under a lot of stress as he’s trying to complete the last year of a p/t degree he’s in his 6th year of this while working and kids etc.
During the move there was an issue with our house which tipped him over the edge. He bacame very anxious and not very sensible. In general his mood has been awful. Since then I have finally got him the GP in fact he has seen 3 diff ones. They all say he’s not depressed and there’s no real plan bar him being on the wait list for Councilling.
This week he went again and was signed off work for a fortnight. He’s crying all the time and has no patience with our toddler. The child is being challenging but he’s got a lot going on himself with all this change and his dad crying at the breakfast table.
Anyway tonight it really escalated.we were doing bedtime with a child each and long story short he couldn’t get the toddler to brush teeth or whatever and he screamed and swore at him. Toddler ran into my room scared and I told H to go down stairs. Comforted toddler and got baby to sleep. While cuddling toddler could hear a metal plate being thrown downstairs and my son was like what’s that ... lies and said daddy prob dropped a plate unloading the dishwasher. He also threw a bottle of Tabasco at the wall taking a chunk out of it.
Then he storms into the room getting clothes etc. I go downstairs and he’s making shakes to leave. Please bare in mind he is not in his right mind. He was saying he doesn’t want to be a dad, doesn’t like our son. Son deserves better and saying he will be better off with whoever you end up with. Really scared me but kids started crying so I had to attend to them and he left.
He did come back and I calmly tried to talk to him. Again asked would he see Counciller, said I would pay he got angry said stop trying to diagnose me.
In the end I left him too himself staring into space in the kitchen.
I have no idea what to do now. This isn’t an acceptable environment for our kids but he’s also mentally unwell. What options do I have?
I don’t have near by family I can go to, and my son is having toilet issues so I don’t want to leave our home either

He now gas lighting you.

No court will care that you using anti depressants, as you are getting help with your mental health. They will care that HE is unwilling to get proper help for his mental health issues.

HE claim you are not empathetic towards him, when you are the one who is trying to get him help. NOT him is just denying that there is any thing wrong. While acting like and arsehole.

He claims your not nurturing him, and yet you looking after his children 24 hours a day, your maintaining the household and him while he works, studies and acts like an arsehole.

I would now you have given him the ultimatum I would step back. Put yourself and your DC as a priority. Make sure you and your children have they need. Stop taking one his mental load your can not force him to get proper help as he is an adult, you can not force him to behave properly as he is an adult.

And therefore as he is an adult he needs to behave like one. It's down to him to manage is work load, his studying. The same as it's down him to sort his mental health issues.

And by consequence of that if he loses you and your dc then it is down to him.

Sorry haven’t read through the whole thread so don’t know if this has been suggested. Would he do an online depression test? It could then be printed off and he could take it to the GP. It would be a good way to assess how he’s feeling and might be an easier way to start
a conversation with the Dr and he would have it in hand weather it was his GP or a locum. The Goldberg test is very good.

He is gaslighting you and manipulating you. This is tipping over into abusive behaviour.

You are telling him that he needs to properly address whatever is going on with his mental health - whether that’s counselling or medication or both - because you can’t go on like this. Instead of engaging with you to try and improve things, he is giving you a hundred reasons why he shouldn’t and why it’s your fault.

At this point there’s nothing more you can say to make him behave like a decent husband and father. All you can do is remove yourself and the DCs out if the way of any further harm.

I think the best thing you have said is that you have given up. It is right to help someone seek help for mental illness and this takes a lot of effort and perseverance. I think most people who have supported a loved one will recognise and have experienced the pretence of them “getting help” but not really wanting or trying to.

There are lots of things the person will do. In your case it probably involves downplaying symptoms and/ or refusing treatment options. Because if he did describe his symptoms he would have been offered medication. There might even have been an insistence by the GP. The other classic is self diagnosing and self treatment. Fine for mild symptoms or if you have an established awareness of your pathology. But not for a major episode were you haven’t been medically diagnosed.

So some of this is too be expected and lots of people work through it successfully if not painfully. But there comes a point were you have to draw the line. This is not an ultimatum or threat. Simply tell him you will not tolerate the behaviour anymore and you cannot live with him as things stand. You will need an exit plan re who leaves and where they go. Far better for him to go to his family than be on his own.

What he must do is, get a proper medical diagnosis based on his actual symptoms. He must follow recommended treatment, allowing time for it to work (3-6 months) and he needs to prevent damage or hurt to the children during this time. That’s what HE needs to do not you.

Mercier, you truly are caught between a rock and a hard place.
I am requoting Lego's [its early and posting with the start of a migraine so I am sorry if I have misremembered the author in the last page] I am requoting because this is so important.

The first describes the state of my son. Yes he trashed my kitchen, yes he had a plan ready to act through to set his school on fire, yes he was a hysterical sobbing wreck when the can of worms finally popped right open BUT....he did not like thinking and feeling as he did and he did not know anyone could help make any of that better. When the Psych's saw him he was given the choice of agreeing to a voluntary section or they would have no choice but to involuntary section him. He had just enoough self awareness left to agree to the first. At no point did he turn round and make out it was all my fault he felt and was thinking as he did. When he lost it in the lead up he smashed up things rather than people but he was becomming increasingly concerned he would end up hurting people due to the none stop codeming thoughts he was having.

My brother choose the other route. Is an end stage alcholic who has ruined his own life, my parents when they were too frail to withstand his bullying and manipulation and just about everyone else he has come in contact with...with the exception of his equally horrible drinking buddies. Its everyones fault but his, he does not engage with help and is an utter arse who I refuse to let near my kids. My eldest son says he is the reason he choose to work with the help offered. He did not like the look of his uncles life choices.

If need be seek advice and support from social services to protect your children from the unreasonable behaviours. If he is capable of engaging with stat' health services they will simply act as a support. If this is the start of the kind of long term manipulative behaviour you would not want around growing kids they will be able to spot it.

You know your husband and your kids. Ask yourself at present which of these two bunnyholes he has choosen to head down then if you need to act to portect your children. The desires and wants of an adult experiencing any form of mental health problem does not outweigh the rights of a child to be protected from them. A caring unwell parent will know they are not right seek and work with help. An arse will inisist its everyone else problem but theirs.

One had had a nervous breakdown. He told people this and he told people his limitations caused by his anxiety, eg couldn't do busy transport, couldn't do presentations, needed to be near a loo. He took every bit of help he was offered, counselling, etc. He worked hard at getting better. He was a top bloke who had had a really hard time. He did improve massively over time.
The other guy refused help, felt sorry for himself, was a ginormous arsehole, ended up becoming abusive as a result of his anxiety. It sort of turned delusional, helped by alcohol i think.

He needs to leave.

You keep worrying about being a single mum and coping alone, but it sounds like you already are, with the added stress of treading on eggshells around him. You are trying so hard, but he isn’t responding or attempting to help himself.

I think if you can be brave enough to get him to leave, even just temporarily, you will find you can cope, you are fine. It might give him the kick up the arse he needs to actually seek help properly rather than pretending he is and laying all the blame for his behaviour on you.

Forget him, what he feels and wants. What do you feel and want? Time to look after you.

The desires and wants of an adult experiencing any form of mental health problem does not outweigh the rights of a child to be protected from them

This is an excellent point. In the hierarchy of whose needs are most important, the DCs’ should come top every time.

What a horrible situation.

The thing that stands out to me is that you need more practical support. If you are in the UK contact your HV team first thing on Monday morning. Put the word urgent in any request.

If not, I would get another adult around ASAP. Can you pay for some nannying support? Or a postnatal doula. But be totally upfront with whoever you engage. I would be interested to see how he behaves when a third party is around.

Finally, from long personal experience, there is mental illness and there is also bad behaviour. It is quite possible that an element of both is going on.

Another thing - is he like this at work or is it only at home?

OK I feel like it’s important to say he has tried to get some help. He hasn’t said I to going to the GP on Monday but he won’t let me come. Maybe I can gently work on that today.

I don’t want to give up on him for one incident when he’s not himself. My kids do come first so I’m mitigating any risk by doing the childcare that’s triggering for him (anything where conflict can arise) and yes it sucks. But once he does get help I’m sure he will be back to his normal self.

He has said some seriously fucking shitty things and yes the comment about my tablets is gaslighting.

The stufff he said about the toddler is shit but coming from a place of utter disparate, he felt suicidal in that moment too. It’s not who he is and this is why he needs help.

Please don’t think I’m excising any of it I’m just trying to gain perspective. We have been arguing a lot and this he says has exacerbated his symptoms so I feel like I have to take some ownership too.

As for being a single parent that’s a whole other clusterfuck as I couldn’t afford our home, and i have no income atm. Dunno what I would do.

Please contact women's aid and be safe. Their number is 0808 200 0247
Also contact your HV and explain what's happening.
You need to leave or get him to leave before you or the children end up hurt or worse.

You have to get out of this.
It will only escalate.
Doesn’t matter if he’s depressed/ abusive/ has a catastrophic brain illness or anything else.
The thing is... what do you want anyone to say?
I’ll tell you a terrible truth. Even with men that KILL their children and partners in cold blood, there will still be minimisers and apologists.
You have to draw the boundary lines FOR YOURSELF.
If he’s actually sick he can seek treatment when you’re separated and then you can take it from there in a couple of years when he’s had therapy and medication.
Right now for you, it’s like allowing your children to live with a dangerous dog that needs to be put down. Do not hesitate.
I have seen with my own eyes the escalation of a situation like the one you describe.
If your child was to be scarred and injured (then consequently removed from you) as a result of one of your husbands tantrums, would you be ok with sitting there with him over the dinner table and knowing your children were in care?
Comforting him because he had mental health issues?
Children first. EVERY TIME.

Also to add.
A gp cant solve this.
Even AFTER a man who has behaved this way has done all the therapy and had all the medication returns to a family home, it’s nearly impossible for the woman to stop feeling that she’s walking on eggshells. You will be damaged psychologically ALREADY and so will your children. The doctor has no magic wand. The only person that holds that is YOU.
Only YOU or social services can save your children from this.

@leatherflamingle what do you think my husband has done that constitutes abuse towards the kids? I’m not trying to be a dick here I’m trying to see if I’m just blind to this. If I lost my temper and shouted go to fucking bed to a three year old, I feel ppl on here would be like you are under a lot of stress, and be supportive of me trying to get help. I don’t think they would suggest social services.

I’m just trying to understand here.

Breaking and throwing things in rage in the house where the children live, therefore making the environment they live unsafe.
Frightening the mother of the children.
Demanding attention from a mother yet refusing to engage properly with external support, therefore prioritizing his own needs over very small children.

His behaviour is robbing the children of the kind of mother they deserve.
Breaking and throwing things is domestic violence.

And also , yes , people say a lot of shit.
Sadly I’d include your sister in this.
Often when people realise they would be the main source of support (often financial) after a victim confides in them about their partners abuse , they will minimise as far as possible to protect themselves from having to take on the responsibility of you . Sad but true.

Also for your little person , glycerin suppositories 👍

OP you have stated that he did something because he was suicidal at the time. If these are his words then he needs to tell the GP who will tell him he needs antidepressants whatever the diagnosis. So unless he comes home with a prescription for these he is not trying to help himself. And he cannot be in charge or around children with those types of nihilistic feelings.

The choice for you right not now are not just divorce or put up with it. He can seek help and leave for a period of time. He can continue to support his family but live elsewhere. His treatment may work quickly or slowly and it could be transformative or not. That’s another issue for the future. Today’s issue is getting and accepting a diagnosis and treatment plan. There is no need for either of you to catastrophise about the future until you get past this.

Have you ever discussed your experience of antidepressants with him. Do you have positive stories or were / are there side effects that he might fear. Does he have any family or friends around to support him?

Your children:
Screaming at a toddler
Being frightened of a parent.
Kids are VERY perceptive, your toddler will be feeling but not understanding his DF dislike.
Hearing anger & violence
Witnessing angry rows.

You:
Walking on eggshells
Getting no emotional support or empathy
Being gaslighted
Witnessing anger & violence.
Experiencing angry rows.
Being blamed, expected to fix/ take ownership of all problems.

It's emotional abuse.
You asked upthread for it to be spelled out. It hasn't been as people are rightly trying to help you. But it should be.

IMO your DH should be at his parents until you and your children can trust him again...

Trust me I'm no expert on this but having experienced 'only' emotional abuse it is hugely damaging, devastating to a child long term.

I'm sorry 💐

Also I do find your example abusive...
Just to put it out there.
screaming ‘go to fucking bed’ directly to a three year old once, say after a massively stressful life event like a death , or in the depths of a real and diagnosed mental health issue, might be excused.
Hell knows we’ve all said it quietly through gritted teeth/ in our heads etc.
But in normal life ,not really acceptable.
And several times? Absolutely not.
The things you describe aren’t even stressful, they are just the normal life of grown ups.
Part time degree/ full time job /kids?
Not stressful.
If anyone should be having a meltdown it would be you after an early baby, an aggressive husband, very little support, and so on.
For the record I hate the sound of your husband and I’m 100% dubious about his mental health issues.
To me he sounds like a manipulative gaslighting domestic abuser, and after you’ve escaped I’d be going as low contact as is humanly possible.
As someone up thread said, it’s like watching a car crash in slo mo.
For those of us that have been there, at least.

An adult can rationalise and apply context and nuance to something like that (screaming get to fucking bed and the rest of the aggressive and shouty treatment).

An adult can say 'well, he's not himself, he's stressed, he doesn't mean it' etc.

A child can not do that. A child will only think, 'daddy doesn't love me because I am bad and unlovable'. This is exactly how negative core beliefs / maladaptive schemata are formed.

I think this man is just too much of a liability for you

Why does it matter what you or other people define as 'abuse'?

He screamed and swore at your toddler. He frightened him. He says he doesn't like him. He cries at the breakfast table in-front of him. He argues with him about porridge. He has smashed things about the house. There have been rows that have woken up your children.
He hasn't bonded with your baby.

A good father would not be treating their mother like he is treating you, mental illness or no. This will all be having an effect on your children.

Don't minimise what he is doing. You have tried to help him but he won't help himself. What on earth makes you think that Monday will go any differently and he will be honest?

He might not be in his right mind, but it's the mind he is in now and that's what you need to work with. Policing and filtering what childcare duties he can do is pointless he can't even make porridge now.

Take whatever practical steps you can. Speak to your HV. Speak to your own GP, his GP again, his father, his friend who took him out. Lean on your own friends. Get his mother to help you with your toddler. If he won't use the money for therapy use if to pay for practical help.

I think you need to start being open and honest with the people around you because if he doesn't get help it very much sounds like his behaviour towards you all is going to escalate

If I lost my temper and shouted go to fucking bed to a three year old, I feel ppl on here would be like you are under a lot of stress, and be supportive of me trying to get help. I don’t think they would suggest social services.

If you said it in the context of being a sleep deprived over-wrought primary carer it would be regrettable, but probably swiftly followed by apologies and cuddles and other nurturing behaviours (ie non confrontational delivery of breakfast)

I'm guessing you would then take the help and support you were offered. Not just say you don't like your son anymore. Therein lies the difference.