I've got to end this, haven't I? So fucking stupid.

[CampfiresAndBeer]

My head is in a complete spin and I don't know what to do for the best. I can't think straight.

I've been seeing someone since Jan. Very compatible. He's kind, thoughtful and loving.

But I've been worrying about the fact his ex wife and subsequent ex girlfriend are both far, far, far more attractive than me - slim, fit and beautiful. I'm just not. I'm best described as 'soft and curvy'; more accurately as 'plump'. I don't wear make up, my hair is natural and just left wavy - I never style it. Appearance wise, I'm the right side of 'average' in a good light...

I supposed to be meeting a small group of his oldest and closest friends in a couple of weeks and, to say I've been feeling a bit anxious about it would be an understatement.

I know his friends are going to be judging me on my 'suitability' for him and comparing me to his exes. It's normal and I know mine did when they met him! The fact they judged him favourably is besides the point.

I've been so anxious about it, I've been trying to manage the drive to call the whole thing off - the meeting of friends and the relationship. He doesn't know this. I've been working on talking myself down from just running away from it all but he's just said something that's sent all my barriers up

We were having a jokey text exchange and I responded to something with "ah no, don't say that, I'm already worried your friends will wonder what you see in me!" and his reply was, "Don't worry about what they think. It's what I think that matters and I think you're beautiful".

So he knows exactly what I mean. They will be wondering what he sees in me because I'm not as slim, pretty etc as his exes. And he is also acutely aware that they are going to be thinking that because he also knows it's true. Fucksake, I know it's true!

I'm such an idiot for thinking this could ever have been anything real or proper. My biggest relationship fear is being settled for..

I just need to learn that I'm not cut out for relationships, that this is all I'll ever be - not quite good enough and just stop deluding myself it could ever be anything different.

I'm just so fucking stupid 😢

And really sad.

You might like the book The Chimp Paradox. Your chimp is messing with you right now.

I've read it. And, yes, I know. But giving it a banana would be acknowledging that yes, his exes are more attractive than me but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about me. But I just get stuck at "yes, his exes are more attractive than me".

Until you deal with the core issue within yourself it isn't going to make a difference

I know. I've spent the last 4 years focused on working on myself though, although I have had counselling/therapy on and off for 27 years. I didn't realise until we started seeing each other that these issues were still there. I've been feeling so much better and stronger and confident. I thought I could do it. Especially as he is so lovely.

But I can't.

I slept really badly last night and I'm shattered today.

I think the dynamic between you is whst makes men want to hold on to you or walk away.

@CampfiresAndBeer if you think your so un attractive why not do something about it? Put some product in your hair a bit of mascara do your eyebrows and some tinted lip balm, makes me go from -10 to a 4 🥴😂

What did you learn from the CBT?

I didn't have CBT, I was turned down for it, but I do use CBT strategies other people have been given or I've found online. On day to day stuff, I can stop and challenge my thinking. Find alternative ways of looking at it etc and it's enought to be able to manage it.

I also have things I do specifically to push myself outside of my comfort zone that make me quite 'visible' but I also have strong compliment/criticism fears related to these too. I don't get criticism but I can't take compliments and find it very uncomfortable. I don't believe it and think people are just 'being nice'.

@CampfiresAndBeer

I think it just boils down to fear. You're scared to really like/love him in case it doesn't work out and you're left alone heartbroken.

EVERYBODY is scared at the start of a relationship, no one wants to be hurt.

Give it a chance.

If compliments make you uncomfortable, tell him that (I find it embarrassing too).

Just think what everyone is going to look like at age 80 !

Can you imagine getting to that age , having let this lovely man go and then seeing ALL of them ?

if you think your so un attractive why not do something about it? Put some product in your hair a bit of mascara do your eyebrows and some tinted lip balm, makes me go from -10 to a 4

What makes you think I don't do these things?

Product in my hair wouldn't make any difference. I use Moroccan oil after washing but it doesn't require anything else and I don't like the feel of it.

I do wear mascara, shape my eyebrowns and wear tinted lip gloss on occasion but I don't like the feel of make up on my skin so wouldn't wear any more than that. I suppose I'm quite lucky in that I don't need to - my skin is reasonably good.

Do not make yourself ill - you thought you could do it and you have realised you can't, not right now, without making yourself unhappy and obsessive.

The level to which it sounds like this incident / event dilemma has taken over your thinking is incredibly damaging and it sounds like time to take a step back and try some more therapy / a different type.

OP I have read all the thread. You sound absolutely lovely. If that comes across online, you must be so much more lovely in real life.

Objectively, my ex husband is better looking than my current bloke. Do you know what? I divorced my ex husband because, personality wise, he and I just weren't suited anymore. Nor were we sexually. There was a lack of desire on my part BECAUSE of us not being suited in terms of personality.

My new bloke is much older than me with all that age brings. And I fancy the arse off him and am head over heels. Because I love WHO he is. To be honest, I struggle to see him objectively, because to me he is gorgeous. His personality shines through and I fancy him way more than my ex.

I am on the fat side. He thinks I am the woman of his dreams. And his ex was a stereotypical blonde beauty. He fancies me more than he fancied her.

It is about personality. Those feelings that your personality gives him.....happy, laughter, safety, will be making you be absolutely gorgeous to him and so he will fancy you.

My backside is huge. My bloke loves it. He is into big bums. My stomach is big and flabby and saggy. My partner just brought me a cup of tea and kissed it.

Everyone fancies different things in different people.

You are lovely and your mum was wrong. Your exes were parasites and exploited your loveliness and low self esteem. They knew what to say to hurt you. It doesn't make it true.

Your new guy sounds like a good man. Keep him, talk to him, tell him all you have told us. I bet he just holds you close and will want to work with you to get you over this. Seek counselling again. The previous one seems crap. CBT would possibly help more than other types of counselling. An excellent book to do CBT by yourself is called "Mind over mood". It is DIY CBT and is recommended by lots in the mental health profession.

You dont have to end it with this man. Explain to him. Work on your self esteem. Tell him you dont feel ready to meet his friends yet because of your feelings.

But don't ditch him. Or your mum and exes win. Remember, the things you see as defects may be precisely what your partner fancies. He has realised that "conventional" good looks don't turn him on. You do.

Bloody hell, even Shane McGowan has just married a stunning woman who worships him.

WHY are you sabotaging yourself like this?

Did you know that the whole skinny thing is not actually what guys go for? From neolithic times the curvy thing is what men really like. google it if you don't believe me!

It is fashion designers that require skinny clothes hangers on which to hang their material, not real men! The literature on how media teaches us to hate our bodies is all out there.

Just be your wonderful self when you meet them.

Maybe you don't mean for it to come across this way but almost all your responses are pretty dismissive or defensive to posters taking time and trying to offer their thoughts - I know / I've done that / yes I'm aware etc so I think you're still in the cycle of wanting to change but not being ready to. I hope things get better soon but everything stays the same until you make some changes! Good luck

*eyebrows

I think I would accept that perhaps you will never shift this core belief and it's about learning to manage it.

Please talk to him about your struggle and meeting his friends because of it.

I have no idea how to broach it though. And I don't want him to think, "well of course they're going to notice that you're not as hot as X or Y"

I just regret the whole thing now, tbh

Potatonose

I don't expect them all to like me. I can cope with not being liked by them all - although being particularly disliked would bother me a bit.

It's purely about them acknowledging to themselves/each other/him that I'm not as attractive as his exes.

Although it has just occured to me that the comment he made that upset me might have been referring to the 'whole' me and liking/disliking me as a person whereas I'd taken it to just mean looks.

Maybe the ruminating on it is the main issue. I have had to learn to stop that, nothing is ever as bad as the scenario I played in my head. I would overthink what everyone thought, every expression, every seemingly negative micro expression. You know what, most of it was me. I would go in to things and have all that on my mind and people would react to that a bit and then there was my confirmation. I'm not saying this is what is happening with you but just sharing my experiences with similar thinking.

It's not normal to overthink like that, I did that because of my upbringing, I grew up in a scary environment. My mum and her issues and a violent father. Scanning for danger on people's faces and whether they would reject me or kick off. Once I got the root of it I could start to unravel it but it takes time and practice. It takes time to change your thinking and no matter what anyone says it won't really sink in. Every day I write thoughts down in the morning, things that worry me, what I am playing over and ruminating. I then compare the situation to what actually happened in the diary at the end of the day. That's been helping me.

Also worth reading: www.amazon.co.uk/Complex-PTSD-Surviving-RECOVERING-CHILDHOOD/dp/1492871842/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&crid=3E170JMMHB2CT&keywords=pete+walker&sprefix=Pete+wa%2Cstripbooks%2C156&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1554641127&sr=1-1

But he doesn't want an intimate relationship with his friends, he wants one with you?

If he turned up with a carbon copy of his exes then relationship would be doomed to fail. He wants someone that is different to his ex, someone that makes him "tick".

Bloody hell, even Shane McGowan has just married a stunning woman who worships him.

so there is some hope then...

ScreamingLadySutch

Well they do, otherwise slim, beautiful women would never have boyfriends/get married... but I understand your point. And I agree but he has always preferred slim and beautiful.

Maybe you don't mean for it to come across this way but almost all your responses are pretty dismissive or defensive to posters taking time and trying to offer their thoughts

I don't mean to be dismissive. There has been some brilliant advice and, like I said before, I keep going back and reading and re-reading. But a lot of the things I have tried before and all I'm trying to do is convey that I'm not just sitting here waiting for it to change or waiting for someone else to make me feel better.

And I am also frustrated that none of it's worked and, tbh, it is hard reading suggestions knowing that I've already done it. It's exhausting and I was really hoping that this time and after being single for so long and working on myself - keeping journals; being mindful; acknowledging what works and having met a man who seemed lovely, that things might be different now.

I don't feel quite as devastated as I did last night but all the thoughts/feelings I'm expressing here are ones that I have had and continue to have and they just rattle around my head all the time.

Potatonose

Thanks. Yes that's a good idea. I agree that ruminating isn't going to be helping.

But I say that and then that voice says, "but it isn't going to change the facts either".

Thanks, Jamie. I'll look at that too.

RandomMess I get that too. But the thought that maybe he has chosen me because I'm less attractive or that he is aware that I'm less attractive or that his friends and family are and are wondering what on earth he sees in me really bothers me.

I suppose there is that voice in the back of my head that also wonders if he also thinks I'll be less likely to cheat because I won't have the same opportunity

Maybe, maybe not 🤷🏻‍♀️

Maybe he’ll turn out to be a twat for as yet unseen reasons 🤷🏻‍♀️

Or...maybe he finds you attractive & will turn out to be amazing partner for life🤷🏻‍♀️

The only way you’re going to find out is to knock this self sabotage out of the way and do your best to believe what he says. He’s NOT any of your shitty ex’s, nor your awful mother, he’s a new opportunity for you to be in a loving relationship.

Take the opportunity and keep working on your inner voice - anything else is a choice to remain sad & lonely.

You’ve had a shitty past, but right now you have the opportunity to have a great future. No one can make you take that
opportunity, it’s yours to take or throw away 🤷🏻‍♀️

And I am also frustrated that none of it's worked and, tbh, it is hard reading suggestions knowing that I've already done it. It's exhausting and I was really hoping that this time and after being single for so long and working on myself - keeping journals; being mindful; acknowledging what works and having met a man who seemed lovely, that things might be different now.

It might help not to see recovery as linear. There are often setbacks and you were quite likely to have one at this point, when you really test out what you've learned. So pick yourself up. You know in theory what you should be doing. Maybe write him a letter explaining things - draw on some of what you've put here. Just stay in the moment. Here and now it is actually OK. You're still with him. Maybe try to focus on that a bit more - the here and now is OK.

My gran died way back in 1983 but much of what she said continues to affect my mum, and indirectly me, despite the fact that my mum is now in her mid 70s. I'm not sure you can ever completely right the damage. But you can damn well tell those negative little voices to fuck off and when they come back, tell them to fuck off some more.

And maybe just maybe he has chosen you because there is just something about you tar he REALLY likes, the self-awareness, lack of arrogance and a proper womanly arse...

He may have no idea why he likes you so much he just does! He is happy to be seen with you, wants you to meet his friends he thinks you're great.

Stop thinking and see it as an adventure....

You're scared of being dumped. There's nothing he can do about that and your neediness would eventually become tedious to him. It's very wearing to date someone with no confidence. You need to do some counselling and actually listen. You appear unwilling to listen here. Your mother was a nasty woman who has done a number on you but it can be undone if you're willing to actually listen to advice, even if you feel you know better.

In the meantime it's up to you I suppose, whether to continue the relationship or not. If you feel you can't handle a relationship yet, then end it.

This fear of his friends thinking you're not good enough seems to be consuming you. Do you think you can get over that fear?

You can't control what happens in life and sometimes we get hurt.
You can protect yourself and isolate yourself or you can take a giant leap of faith and say 'here goes!!!'
I wish you good luck with getting counselling that you can benefit from.

@Whatad that is overly harsh.

What your very essence of self was never allowed to develop as a child it is quite possibly gone forever.

The OP is listening and not being dismissive she is trying to deal with something that has always been at the very core of who she became/is. She battles it every day of her life!!!

The OP is trying to explain what the issue is so she can grapple with it. Be very thankful that you clearly don't understand because is a horrible thing to have to live with.

The type of intensive psychological she needs to stand to truly overcome is incredibly hard to find and it certainly isn't available on the NHS anymore.

What your very essence of self was never allowed to develop as a child it is quite possibly gone forever.

Well aren't you the prophet of doom!

And you call me harsh!

OP, you haven't mentioned your financial situation. Are you in the position to afford private therapy? Might be £50 - £70 a week. Is that affordable for you? You might feel more in control of the counselling if you're paying for it?