Arsehole or narcissist?

[Lockcodger]

I've read so many threads on here tonight that I thought I would post up some if the things I've learned recently about narcissism, as so many people seem to be going through this at the moment.

I've recently just escaped from my 3rd relationship with a narc and I'm still processing alot of it but much of what I say below is available on YouTube.

In the beginning

1. He showered you with excessive gifts, compliments, favours etc that sometimes made you feel uncomfortable? Particularly if he said he had never met anyone like you before, you are his soulmate.

1. The relationship progressed very quickly and he said I love you very early on, talked about marriage, children, moving in together way too early.

1. Your gut told you something wasnt right but you ignored it at the time

1. It feels too good to be true, you were swept off your feet etc

1. Played the victim, had many "crazy exes" who cheated on him treated him terribly and his family and life in general was out to get him but he cannot see the role he played in the demise of his life.

1. Unable to keep down a job, lives an unstable lifestyle (homeless, jobless, living with parents or a string of short term partners)

1. You were vulnerable at the time e.g. very young, just left another abusive relationship or breakup, you have had a difficult childhood, lost a job etc.

This is the idealisation phase of the abuse cycle (idealise, devalue discard). The next phase is devalue and then discard.

1. Devalue: Constant little digs sometimes disguised as jokes, putdowns, sarcasm, criticism or outright calling you names

1. Projection: Accusing you of things you haven't done (cheating, lying etc.) They are projecting the things that THEY have done to you, onto you. Jealousy is a huge red flag!

1. Lying and gas lighting. If you catch them out in a lie, they will give you 100 bulshit reasons why it wasnt a lie and then turn it back around on you and say you are abusive and controlling for daring to ask them to explain themselves and why they lied. This is gas lighting, making you doubt your own reality and feel crazy (which they know they are making you crazy so call you crazy to gaslight more).

1. Triangulation. This may start with comparing you to other women or exes by pointing out your flaws, slagging off all of their exes to you so you never find out what really happened between them (most likely he was abusive). This then leads to cheating, which has 3 goals. One to punish you for whatever perceived terrible thing the narc thinks you've done, to make you feel like shit and want to compete with the other woman and also for additional narcissistic supply.

1. Entitlement and irresponsibility. Lazy, selfish, nothing is ever good enough, parasitoc lifestyle rely on you financially or ask to borrow money and don't pay you back or you have to ask them to pay, live with you but doesnt pull their weight with housework, bills and childcare. Comes across as helpless, is bad with money, has been homeless or lived with a string of short term relationships, has drug or alcohol dependency, doesnt see his children or pay child support, can't hold down a job.

1. Fragile ego when they feel they are criticised they hugely overreact like a toddler stomping their feet. Immaturity, tantrum throwing, silent treatment, stonewalling (ignore you for hours/days), threatens to leave, threatens to expose something private about you (secrets/pictures), throwing things, punching walls, physical or sexual violence.

1. Lack of empathy. You feel like they don't care about your feelings because they don't!

1. Cheating. Nearly all narcissists cheat. They like to line up new narcissistic supply for your discard phase (this is why they appear to move on so quickly when a relationship ends but really they were lined up all along)

1. Recruit flying monkeys. Spread rumours and lies about you to tarnish your name while they play victim. You may see your own friends turning against you if they believe the narcs version of events.

10. They have a history of domestic violence, say their ex was violent to them, say their ex made false allegations of abuse against them to turn their children against them. 99% of the time, believe the woman, not the narc.

11. Hoovering. After discard they will get back in contact to test the waters, promising they have changed, quit drinking/drugs, they NEED you, life is so horrible etc.

If you take them back after the Hoover stage, you re-enter the idealise, devalue discard abuse cycles only the cycles will get shorter each time you go back.

The best thing to do if you identify a narc in your life is to run, go no contact and block them from everything. If you have children with the narc, you could try low contact method.

Theres so much more but this post is becoming really long. I hope it helps some people reading this

I'm cool as a cucumber. Now. With him I was nuts. Except I wasn't nuts, I was the human equivalent of a rescue dog, shivering and afraid of everything. I had become the scapegoat on which he poured all his anxieties and self hatred until I internalised them and became what he felt on the inside. Just how he liked it.
When he left, all that fear and self hatred he had poured into me with just drained right out. 3 months after I dropped contact to bare minimum, I was normal again.

Oh my God. This was me - exactly this. I can't believe that someone else has experienced exactly the same.

It has taken me 2.5 years to finally feel that I am starting to recover, at least a year was spent in some form of post trauma state which continued until the divorce was finalised.
I think anger is part of recovery. It is helpful to research what happened to you but then I think you need to balance with healthy strategies such as yoga, mediation and exercise. Ex has walked away with lots of money and enjoys spending on himself, it is hard to not feel angry but I keep my focus on how his karma is living with himself.

One of the overriding symptoms of NPD is a distinct lack of empathy for anyone. Again, it's rare in my experience to see that

I never knew Ex had no empathy because he faked responses, I assumed he just had poor imagination with words as he repeated phrases. During the end of the marriage it became clear he has no empathy and also no remorse. I can remember looking at him one day when I realised there was no remorse but I dismissed it, as stupidly thought it couldn't be possible. I was so unaware of personality disorders and assumed I would "know" one.
Often it is only intimate partners that recognise NPD since they are outwardly charming and very superficial, especially if covert.

Thank you Lockcodger. I guess the only way to move on from the anger is by realising that by being angry you are still letting them affect you. That it is more time taken up with the negativity of them. Or maybe it just takes time to heal properly and forget a little more.
For me I just try hard to acknowledge and believe that it is he who is deeply flawed and fucked up. He who will have less of a fulfilled life and lack of connection. It’s him who will lose out time and time again due to his lack of empathy and inability to love anyone as much as himself. He’ll probably never know the beauty of a truthful, unconditionally loving, giving relationship as he can’t give it himself. My ex had 4 years of 3-6 month back to back failed relationships before me after his marriage ended after his wife found him cheating and although he claimed the women were the problem (including his wife) I now know it was solely him.
I try to replace the anger for pity for him and his weak, immoral, shallow character. He’ll never know real love or have true honest communication with a woman. How sad!!

I found this thread last night. Thank you Lockcodger. When my ex left in November I saw his behaviour in a different light and wondered if he could be a narcissist. However, I then started to think that I was to blame - I was too needy, my expectations were too high, I was "controlling". I've read all of the posts and I've just woken up.
The majority of the behaviours on here apply to him - but for a lot of the time he could be really lovely and charming. He was never violent or shouty etc but he still managed to strip me of all my self-esteem and leave me a nervous wreck unable to socialize with friends because I thought they didn't like me.

I was older than him and his family wanted rid of me from the offset. I don't really fit in to the mould of what they see as an "appropriate" type of woman. I am in a small village in another country and women are expected to be home-makers and if they do work, it should be in one of a small number of suitable jobs eg. nurse, shop assistant, carer etc.
His family were abusive to me the whole time and I put up with it for him because he begged me not to leave him because of them.

The whole thing was hideous. He would report things to me that his family or other people had said about me. He would tell me things like "You don't want to know what X (a good friend) said about you behind your back. You think X is your friend but he hates you".
He managed to join all the hobby groups I am in and make trouble by telling me "People don't like you because x, y, z". "You were rude to Mr. Z" (because I asked him a perfectly politely question - I thought). So of course I began to doubt myself - was I being rude? did everyone hate me? I avoided all social situations because he had me so convinced that others were judging me and being horrible behind my back.

He would go out drinking after work all the time having told me he would be home for us to go out or cook together. I'd be left waiting for him to show up never knowing whether he would show up half an hour late or at 1 am rolling drunk. If I phoned to ask - just to find out whether I should eat - he would be aggressive on the phone or not pick up at all. He'd turn up here then all sulky etc saying I was controlling. Not true at all - I just wanted some basic respect. He would then apologize and be so lovely that I would forgive him every time.

He would randomly drop women's names in to the conversation that he had met in a social setting and tell me how great they are. He would send them whatsapp messages. If he thought he was getting somewhere he would then tell me things weren't working out with us and in fact we broke up twice because of this sort of thing. Then nothing would come of the flirtation with this woman and he'd be back within a couple of weeks crying etc. He was so convincing in his remorse I took him back.

He blamed his family and various other ex-employers for his slightly sketchy work history (he had always had a job but moved from one thing to the next). He spent 5 years moaning and whining about two hobby groups he was in and eventually decided to leave because he had a massive argument at one of them and also wanted to do a course so wouldn't have time. But after we broke up he rejoined both and blamed me for him leaving - saying I had threatened him.

He also used prostitutes regularly before our relationship began. He convinced me that in this culture this is normal and that people no longer go to the brothel when in a steady relationship. However, I know that he went to prostitutes a couple of times during our relationship. People tell me he is now drinking all the time and regularly going to the brothel again.
This all fits in with his general misogynistic attitude - women should be at home and cook and clean and wait for their man to return home, whatever time that might me.
He has made me out to be a really bad person and I'm not. He sucked all the life and soul out of me until I was a shell. After the last break up I blocked all contact - having experienced previous break ups I knew he just wanted to keep me hanging on so he could come back as soon as he needed more narcissistic supply.
I am recovering - but slowly.

Sorry, I have written so much and it is boring but it is therapeutic. There's more......maybe I will post again another time
I never thought I would be one of those women who gets stuck in a very bad relationship and keeps forgiving the fucker. But somehow when you are in there and they have messed with your head you feel it is better to stay than to try to get out there and either be single or start again with someone new.

onionchucker I found out my ex was using prostitutes and escorts too, despite us having a stellar sex life! It must be something to do with control or something. He denied it of course even with the evidence pointing directly to him having done so (escorts numbers deleted yet kept in a file on his computer - search history for prostitutes when he went away, not wanting to tell me when he was working from home, me Facetiming him and him being naked in the middle of the day!) You did not write too much, nor is it boring - I am finding this thread really therapeutic, as it reinforces what I now already know about these men. I do recommend the books I have read - posted earlier. They have really helped me to realise that it was all him and not me and that narcissists cannot change as it is a hardwired issue with their brain chemistry and their past. Unless they seek help for a long, long time they cannot ever hope to change and even then the stats point to it failing in most cases. The problem with narcissists is that they cannot self reflect, and their total lack of empathy for others makes it impossible for them to understand what they have done wrong.

Pft, I think they understand just fine what they've done wrong - They just don't care. The number of times I remember explaining 'why' behaviour was hurtful and just this blank look on these sorts faces - but it's just an act, to make you feel like 'maybe I'm over-reacting'. OR They don't even bother to act, they just smirk, because they know they hurt you, and they enjoyed it.

He love bombed me in the beginning talking about marriage and living together, then a year later denied having ever said these things. Or, that he had felt those things but my behaviour had caused him to back off and he needed to see if things would 'get better' before he would consider it again.

Snap....
Mine asked me to marry him and talked about the future. We booked a marriage seminar (we are both Catholics and you have to attend a seminar to get married in the church). We also booked a date for the church. A month later he came in really drunk one night - said it was over - because I hadn't been getting up at 5 am to have his breakfast on the table before work and that I wasn't "proper wife material". He then told me about 3 or 4 whatsapp female friends who were better than me. He went off but came back after 3 weeks begging (I took him back as he seemed remorseful) but I said we would have to postpone the wedding and so I cancelled the church and he cancelled the wedding seminar.
A few months later he asked me to marry him again. I said I needed more time to be sure. Three months after that he left again saying he had met someone at a party who was "better" than me. He then claimed he had been having doubts for months (ie. before he proposed). Then denied all knowledge of proposing and also denied all knowledge of the previous occasion with the booked marriage seminar and church.

I think they understand just fine what they've done wrong - They just don't care. The number of times I remember explaining 'why' behaviour was hurtful and just this blank look on these sorts faces

I recognize that blank look as well. I realize now that my narcissist had no interest whatsoever in my feelings and the inconvenience he was causing by refusing to consider that I might be stuck at home waiting for him.

I really should have seen it earlier but I was grieving for my mother and he sucked the life out of me until I couldn't see or think clearly any more.

I can't imagine me ever having a relationship again. A few people have shown an interest since the split and they seem really nice... but I am terrified they would be the same.

Oh yes, using prostitutes/going to strip clubs/live porn etc is pretty common from my experience too. I think its partly because it gives them narc supply (even though they have to pay for someone to give it to them which is pretty pathetic) but also shows their deep misogyny. Two of my narcs claimed to be feminists (because I'm pretty opinionated about it) but I found out later that they both held deep seated beliefs that women were basically there for their pleasure and I know one definitely slept with prostitutes and went to strip clubs. It's all abit yuk really.

Yes, I agree that being angry isn't very helpful and hurts me more than them. It's difficult to let go when I'm still dealing with the aftermath from several of these relationships. I have two ongoing harassment cases which I'm waiting for a court date, one owes me money and stole my sons belongings and wont return them and exH is a whole thread in himself. I am trying to focus on myself and my DC though and I'm moving past trying to understand why they do what they do (I did become obsessed for a little while but I feel confident about spotting a future one as a result). I'm trying to learn as much as I can about boundary setting and enforcement and how my relationship with my father is at the centre of why I'm a co-dependent (something I've avoided admitting for years) and also trying to practice self care by going to the gym and eating better and looking into therapy for me and my DC.

Please don't ever feel like your posts are boring. Sometimes its cathartic to write things down and it seems we have all had equally similar devastating relationships which certainly makes me feel less alone. I think all of our stories may help someone who stumbles across this thread and be able to put the narc traits into context by showing how they play out in real life.

The great thing is that we have all managed to escape, recognise what it is we have been through and move towards a better place in our lives. I do not underestimate the bravery it took from each of you to get to where you are today

The one positive I can take from all of this is I have realised some of the negative things I have always done which are far too similar to narc behaviour for my liking and I am making a conscious decision to stop. For example, I'm going to stop comparing myself to others and feeling jealous, stop entertaining negative gossip about anyone, look to myself for validation rather than trying to get it from other people and stop seeing myself as a victim of the abuse and stop letting it define me.

Two of my narcs claimed to be feminists (because I'm pretty opinionated about it) but I found out later that they both held deep seated beliefs that women were basically there for their pleasure and I know one definitely slept with prostitutes and went to strip clubs. It's all abit yuk really.

Mine claimed that as well but like you, I discovered that he thought women are there to serve his every need - whether this is his sexual need or other needs such as food being on the table, clothes washed, house kept clean, secretarial duties (organizing his many appointments and making sure he didn't forget to go), buying his toiletries etc because he was sooooo busy and did not have time to do this himself.

I am angry about the whole thing now. He kept saying he didn't want me to be that kind of woman but then would make digs about things not being exactly perfect.

I am self-employed and my work involves starting later - ie. around lunchtime and working until 10 pm or later. He started work at 6.30 am and would be up at 5.30 am. At first he never complained about me staying in bed and getting up later but then he gradually started on about this and would say things like "You should get up at 5 am and get my breakfast ready and then you will have plenty of time to do household chores before your working day begins".
Yeah right.... get up at 5 am and then basically work through until 10 pm. I did tell him to get lost on that one but he would constantly complain about things in the house while making no end of mess and throwing his clothes on the floor.
I actually have a clean and tidy house. I now see that he thought the entire world should revolve around him and his needs and that he was too good to be expected to get his hands dirty with anything like that.
He is now living with his parents so they can have the pleasure of him rolling in drunk whenever and treading dirt into the house and leaving his clothes everywhere.

Horrible horrible man.... and the worst thing is, I totally fell for it and loved him so much!

In the end though, it doesn’t really matter whether he’s an arsehole or a narc. It matters that you aren’t happy. Don’t waste your time or energy trying to make an armchair diagnosis because either way you can’t fix it. You’re not going to get back that knight in shining armour because he doesn’t exist, he never has. I’ve been there, and it’s really hard because the highs were so high that they made putting up with the lows worth it, until they weren’t worth it anymore.

I lived with one for 10 years. He ticks every single box except he had a very good job which he held down.

He was abusive in every way someone can be. He had zero empathy for anyone or anything. I think some of that was trained into him as he'd been in the army.

One day I just had enough. He threatened my rescue dog who was protecting me from him and I decided that night, no more.

It's like I could deal with the abuse towards me, I blocked it out but my innocent dog I felt compelled to protect.

I told him to leave, eventually he did although he kept offering me chances to change my mind. Best nights sleep I had in ages the night he left 😊

My ex used to want ‘equality’ - he’d say women wanted equality so now they had it - but would use it to mess with my head. Knowing I was in a low wage and supporting two children he would ask if I wanted to go on holiday and that he’d treat me - then when we were looking at places to go and about to book flights etc, he’d say ‘you get get the flights’ knowing I had limited funds. He’d then deny saying he was treating me and bring up the equality line. It was so confusing. This was even when I had taken us and paid for a fabulous weekend to Paris! Or he’d say menacingly ‘are you the kind of woman who expects to be wined and dined’ when I mentioned date nights - even though I would take him out for meals. He was very clever at extracting as much cash out of me as possible. In the end I was so confused I suggested an online calculator that worked out how much each person should pay according to their salary. It worked out at 70/30 as he earned more. Even then he wasn’t happy and said he didn’t think it was fair as he ‘worked harder’ than me in his job!! Despite me taking him fully paid on 2 lovely weekends away to Europe buying him meals out when I could afford to, buying him generous birthday gifts etc, and always contributing my share if not more for holidays and other weekends away - he still lied and told his family when our relationship ended to due him physically abusing me and the police warning him, that it had ended because I was taking advantage of him financially!!
He saw women as leeches and ‘rinsers’ and made that clear in a covert way to start controlling what I spent my money on - despite never helping me in my home which desperately needed a lot of work, he resented me spending money doing it up, saying I should have spent the money on ‘us’ - then he would go buy himself gorgeous big purchases for his home or buy himself designer clothes! I never minded paying my way, but the inequality over how I could spend my money and how he did was galling.

lifebegins50, your post chimed with me.

I have been on a parenting course ordered by the courts. Victim blaming with bells on. No understanding whatsoever of coercive control, patronising and ultimately a tragic insight into the ignorance of the family courts of domestic abuse.

There were some wonderful women on the same course, if only we had been allowed to speak and openly discuss the difficulties of communication with an abuser.

What a waste of time and taxpayers money.

He showered you with excessive gifts, compliments, favours etc that sometimes made you feel uncomfortable? Particularly if he said he had never met anyone like you before, you are his soulmate

Timely for me! I have a thread along these lines running at the moment. Trying to sort my feelings out. It's a mess, really.

Devalue: Constant little digs sometimes disguised as jokes, putdowns, sarcasm, criticism or outright calling you names

I am currently exploring whether he meant to devalue me with a certain phrase he used. Seen in the context of other stuff, perhaps he did.

Can you help me? How do you 'leave' this type of relationship? I've tried about 4 or 5 times but either get hoovered back in or blackmailed/threatened. I'm not strong enough to do this on my own. I've had several breakdowns and hospitalised twice (voluntary - although he tells everyone I've been sectioned). I'm scared of him so stay in the relationship (we don't live together) because I'm scared of the consequences.

Not living together is a good thing. I'd tell him on the phone or via message you no longer want to see him at all. Block him on all forms of communication. If he has keys change the locks. Then get busy. Book stuff in with friends, or book classes, etc.

I threw myself into exercise, it made me feel a million times better.

Do the freedom programme. It will open your eyes.

Deep breath. You got this

Thanks nrpmum. When I blocked him last time he contacted my daughter (adult) via Facebook. I can't let this happen again as she doesnt know I'm seeing him again. He keeps throwing in my face that my children don't know and I'm his "dirty secret". I'm scared of him contacting them.

@SadVillageGirl

Mine left me three times and I took him back. He inveigled his way back in and blamed me for the break up each time. He claimed I had or hadn't done something or other, that's why he started looking around for other women and why he had to end the relationship. ie. it was all my fault. Then he claimed I hadn't fought hard enough for him.

So I can't really advise you on how to leave as I was left... but.... he kept up contact each time in order to make sure I was there should nothing happen with the women he was chasing. He treated me like shit. I am pretty sure the last time he left he thought he could do the same again and wanted to maintain contact.

I found it really hard to stay strong and not break and take him back. I did the following (maybe some of them will help you once you have told him the relationship is over)

1. Blocked his phone number on my phone. He wasn't on social media but if yours is, block. He used other phone numbers including his friend's number to phone late at night or send texts about stupid things. I didn't pick up for any numbers I did not know for at least 3 months. Also blocked any new numbers texts came from.

1. Made a calendar and ticked off every day I went without contacting him. This was to stop myself from cracking and being hoovered back in by giving him a small opening. I marked 30, 60 and 90 days on the calendar and when I reached those dates I rewarded myself with a treat (which I had chosen at the beginning and wrote on the calendar). After 30 days I bought some new clothes which I had saved for over the 30 days. 60 days was a day out at a thermal bath. 90 days was supposed to be sledging but the weather wasn't suitable - so I didn't do the 90 days one but I didn't need it by then - the addiction to contact with him had died by then.

1. Wrote in a notebook about all the incidents I could remember where he hadn't treated me properly and every time I thought about him and wanted to be with him I would either write or read things in the notebook.

1. Told all mutual friends I wanted to hear nothing about how he was getting on. People wanted to tell me at the beginning how badly he was taking the break up - but this was him manipulating them to get to me. (Own up to your daughter and tell her that this time really is the end but you will need her help - she should block him as well and if he does contact her, not pass on any messages from him).

1. Said yes to all social occasions that came up even if I wasn't totally sold on the idea - I needed to get back my ability to socialize which he had taken from me.

1. Went through my house two days after he left and removed everything belonging to him - left it outside the door and told him to collect it.

1. He contacted me because he had taken my spare car key (instead of his he claimed). I replied very matter of fact and despite him sending various pleading texts I ignored them and just said "Put the car key in the letter box. Thank you".

1. Get in touch with people who have been neglected during the relationship. I lost touch with a few people because I had no time because he took up so much headspace and time with his nonsense - constantly whining.

When I blocked him last time he contacted my daughter (adult) via Facebook

Call his bluff. If he does tell her to block him

I echo the others. Block him. Give him absolutely nothing! Contact the Police if he doesn't leave you alone. I didn't get away until the Police were involved and everyone knew. I was too scared and ebarrassed. Took him back multiple times! You will get through it and it DOES get better. When I was in the midst of it I would never have thought my life would ever turn out as good as it is now!

Apparently it takes on average 7 times for an abused person to leave the abuser. It is bloody hard. After a while you realise it was the best thing you ever did.

Great thread! I’m recently out! I walked away during the re-idealisation stage and I am working hard on myself to ensure that I don’t go back there.

I’ve spent the last year crying, feeling stressed, I’ve lost 3 stone and I feel far less attractive than I used to! I’m short, he damanged me.

I feel that I’m still in love with him, and reading as much as I can about them to try to stop idealising him and the relationship.. which was, effectively terrible anyway

It is very hard. I’m 2 months out but have seen him a couple of times. Today I’ve blocked him. What we think is love for these men is not. The anxiety we feel is akin to the same feeling we have when we’re falling in love and we mistake it for love. It’s not real, proper love - it’s the anxiety of mistrust, of yearning for him to change or be what he keeps gaslighting us that he is. I am telling myself this over and over. It’s fucking hard but even though my heart is still breaking I am no longer distraught - thanks to lovely friends, family, self help books and therapy. I wish I’d never met him, he broke me and I’m scarred. The upside is that I now know so many red flags to look out for in the future. It’s no life being with a narcissist and they CANNOT CHANGE. They don’t know how to love, or cherish, or not lie.

I need to remember this