Arsehole or narcissist?

[Lockcodger]

I've read so many threads on here tonight that I thought I would post up some if the things I've learned recently about narcissism, as so many people seem to be going through this at the moment.

I've recently just escaped from my 3rd relationship with a narc and I'm still processing alot of it but much of what I say below is available on YouTube.

In the beginning

1. He showered you with excessive gifts, compliments, favours etc that sometimes made you feel uncomfortable? Particularly if he said he had never met anyone like you before, you are his soulmate.

1. The relationship progressed very quickly and he said I love you very early on, talked about marriage, children, moving in together way too early.

1. Your gut told you something wasnt right but you ignored it at the time

1. It feels too good to be true, you were swept off your feet etc

1. Played the victim, had many "crazy exes" who cheated on him treated him terribly and his family and life in general was out to get him but he cannot see the role he played in the demise of his life.

1. Unable to keep down a job, lives an unstable lifestyle (homeless, jobless, living with parents or a string of short term partners)

1. You were vulnerable at the time e.g. very young, just left another abusive relationship or breakup, you have had a difficult childhood, lost a job etc.

This is the idealisation phase of the abuse cycle (idealise, devalue discard). The next phase is devalue and then discard.

1. Devalue: Constant little digs sometimes disguised as jokes, putdowns, sarcasm, criticism or outright calling you names

1. Projection: Accusing you of things you haven't done (cheating, lying etc.) They are projecting the things that THEY have done to you, onto you. Jealousy is a huge red flag!

1. Lying and gas lighting. If you catch them out in a lie, they will give you 100 bulshit reasons why it wasnt a lie and then turn it back around on you and say you are abusive and controlling for daring to ask them to explain themselves and why they lied. This is gas lighting, making you doubt your own reality and feel crazy (which they know they are making you crazy so call you crazy to gaslight more).

1. Triangulation. This may start with comparing you to other women or exes by pointing out your flaws, slagging off all of their exes to you so you never find out what really happened between them (most likely he was abusive). This then leads to cheating, which has 3 goals. One to punish you for whatever perceived terrible thing the narc thinks you've done, to make you feel like shit and want to compete with the other woman and also for additional narcissistic supply.

1. Entitlement and irresponsibility. Lazy, selfish, nothing is ever good enough, parasitoc lifestyle rely on you financially or ask to borrow money and don't pay you back or you have to ask them to pay, live with you but doesnt pull their weight with housework, bills and childcare. Comes across as helpless, is bad with money, has been homeless or lived with a string of short term relationships, has drug or alcohol dependency, doesnt see his children or pay child support, can't hold down a job.

1. Fragile ego when they feel they are criticised they hugely overreact like a toddler stomping their feet. Immaturity, tantrum throwing, silent treatment, stonewalling (ignore you for hours/days), threatens to leave, threatens to expose something private about you (secrets/pictures), throwing things, punching walls, physical or sexual violence.

1. Lack of empathy. You feel like they don't care about your feelings because they don't!

1. Cheating. Nearly all narcissists cheat. They like to line up new narcissistic supply for your discard phase (this is why they appear to move on so quickly when a relationship ends but really they were lined up all along)

1. Recruit flying monkeys. Spread rumours and lies about you to tarnish your name while they play victim. You may see your own friends turning against you if they believe the narcs version of events.

10. They have a history of domestic violence, say their ex was violent to them, say their ex made false allegations of abuse against them to turn their children against them. 99% of the time, believe the woman, not the narc.

11. Hoovering. After discard they will get back in contact to test the waters, promising they have changed, quit drinking/drugs, they NEED you, life is so horrible etc.

If you take them back after the Hoover stage, you re-enter the idealise, devalue discard abuse cycles only the cycles will get shorter each time you go back.

The best thing to do if you identify a narc in your life is to run, go no contact and block them from everything. If you have children with the narc, you could try low contact method.

Theres so much more but this post is becoming really long. I hope it helps some people reading this

Ten please do not be so hard on yourself. These people are highly manipulative and have had alot of practice in honing these skills throughout their lives.

I think it's really common for victims to feel like they may have been the abusive ones because you have been so severely gaslight over time, you doubt your own perceptions about what happened. The narc/abuser wants you to be seen as/think you are the abuser so that they can be the victim.

I began to think that I might have been the abusive one because I was constantly being told I was abusive, demanding, picky, judgemental. The reality was I was called all of things things when I brought up perfectly legitimate things they had done in as careful a way as possible. It didn't matter, they just deflect it all back in to you.

You may find this video helpful to understand why you feel this way

well you have just described my ex perfectly. 8 months I wasted on him. No more time will be given to that man again.

Very good and comprehensive :) HOWEVER It's important to mention that the 'love bombing' stage doesn't always happen (at least not the compliments ect) It can actually be the exact OPPOSITE where they put THEMSELVES on a pedestal, not you. And make you feel like you are 'oh so lucky' to have any of their precious time (think Gemma Colins when she was on celebs go dating). They also have a habit of randomly ghosting during the early dating stages, just when things are going well and then coming back a week or more later (after you have worried yourself sick that you have done something wrong) often with a shit excuse, this is to test to see if you will just ignore this rotten behaviour. They start testing you from the start.

Horrible sorts. But yeah, don't always expect the love bombing stage because they can skip it. Negging behaviour early on is common amongst these sorts, in time it will progress to more obvious devaluation.

Jax I know its cliche but it's better to waste 8 months than 8 months and a day on these fucknuggets. I could cry over the time I have wasted in these relationships, the money I've lost, the impact on my children, my career, the humiliation, the loss of self esteem. I wasted the best years of my life to the most horrendously abusive man, only to build myself up and be knocked right back down again by another narcissist.

The only positive we can take from the experience is to learn the warning signs so we don't fall for it again and work on our own self esteem and boundaries so that a future narcissist/abuser cannot sniff out the cracks and target us again.

Leaving in itself is a very brave and admirable thing to do ❤

@caffeineplease " can I access this program without going to WA ? Sorry for all the questions but my google history is monitored."

If you use Internet Explorer - click Ctrl-Shift-P to open an "InPrivate" window

If you use Chrome - click Ctrl-Shift-N to open an "Incognito" window

If you use Firefox - click Ctrl-Shift-P to open a "Private" window.

None of these will track your google history or any other tracking history.

Christ, that 2nd list is spot on too...

That is very true Tea. Not every tactic might be present and I haven't really covered every aspect which is why I would encourage people to do their own research.

What you have described fits into their entitled attitude and arrogance (I'm better than you so why should I chase you). They will give you just enough to keep you hooked and may future fake you into believing there is some prospect of an exclusive relationship in the future. The ghosting is part of the devalue/discard phase and coming back a week later is the Hoover. I think these tactics are used more often when they are in a long term relationship or marriage (their primary source) and they are looking to make you a secondary source of supply. They may make you the primary source one day, but passing these bullshit tests is a requirement for that.

Testing is a huge part of the early abuse phases. My most recent ex accused me of lying about something trivial and broke up with me (after throwing a tantrum) in the hope I would beg him back and plead for him to stay. Had I done that, I would have passed his test. His mistake was that by this point I'd had enough, I was onto his game and it totally backfired as I kicked him out (and he no longer got free housing and food).

Another more overt narc claimed he had found a used condom when cleaning my room. I knew it wasnt true (I asked to see it and he said he threw it away) but unfortunately I went out of my way to find a logical explanation when it wasnt fucking true in the first place (therefore passing his first test and more abuse quickly ensued)

It's amazing the amount off bullshit, looking back on things, that we are like 'why did I put up with that?!'. I think 'for a quiet life' is often the answer...not that we ever got a quiet life of course xD

Haha I think these sorts really are shocked when we finally decide enough is enough and shut the door in the face.

A few more points I've experienced (which overlap with points mentioned before but I find examples helpful in identifying what happened)

1. You feel like his mum. You have to constantly remind them how to parent, how to have an adult conversation, how to clean up after themselves, how to cope with adult life and the problems that may come up. This is one of my biggest red flags now. If I start to feel like his mum, I'm gone!!

1. Irresponsibly- driving your car without insurance, drink driving, accumulating bad debt, spending recklessly (e.g I gave one ex £15 to buy himself small bits throughout the week until he got paid. He spent half of that on the first day on getting his car valeted), not being able to prioritise things, reckless behaviour.

1. He tells you you are too good for him. You probably are! They are managing down your expectations and again playing the poor me card

1. Will be dismissive of things that are important to you. One ex scoffed to me that I only have ONE publication. I asked him how many he had and he lied about having one himself (I googled his name and nothing ever came up). Telling you your family is mean to you or your friend seems like a backstabber/user etc. This is to isolate you from sources of support. Making fun/minimising/sabotaging your attempts at self improvement (e.g. one ex knew I was doing slimming world but instead of being supportive, he constantly bough McDonalds and ate it in front of me or bought chocolates daily).

1. Criticism or putdowns. Can start off very subtle. In relation to the story above, my ex knew I was sensitive about my weight but told me once when face timing that he missed my "chubby cheeks"

1. Using information you've told them in confidence to use against you during an argument. e.g. my ex knew I had several failed relationships and that most were abusive. He threw this back at me during an argument about something completely irrelevent and made out I was a bad mother because I couldn't hold down a relationship (despite the fact that he is a father and has many failed relationships also). Another common one is when they say "no wonder your family/friend/ex/neighbour hates you, you're such a bitch". This again feeds into their isolation and gas lighting.

1. Initially pretending to like your children/want to spend time with them but slowly start complaining about how messy/ungrateful/brattish/demanding your child is and then start dictating to you how to parent, that you are too "soft" and asking "what are you going to do about how your child treats me?", even if they are only a young child having a normal tantrum or reaction to a new man in their life.

He tells you you are too good for him I think that's a good one to watch out for early on. That and 'my ex called me a narcissist' or 'im a narcissist' or 'my ex says I hit her' ect.. all part of their testing, to see if you will say 'oh no you aren't/you'd never do that' ect...then they know they have you. This you may see even in early dating stages. Perhaps put forth as a pity ploy of some sort.

Also 6, defo. I've actually noticed as early as a first date with a guy this sort of thing! I was joking about having a discounted council tax as if I wasn't meant to have one (I was, but it was just in context as he works in a fraud department for a bank) and I noticed he quietly repeated back to himself 'only pays * council tax' (as if he was remembering it to himself to use against me). I think we have a six sense for these things when we've been through similar before (like...it felt like a threat) I told myself I was being paranoid but then all the other red flags showed up bigtime xD Always trust your gut!

Oh and one that was very briefly a friend, gave me the 'your friend said this about your and she was right!' about a convo I had had with her about another friend who had hurt me and 'no wonder you have no friends'. Like throwing the hurt back at me. I've also heard from another person, 'well you shouldn't have been there' about being sexually assaulted. It's amazing the nastiness these sorts are capable of. And how abundant they actually are. I don't think people realise.

1. Insisting they ended the relationship when you break up with them or if they break up with you, they will insist it was your fault e.g. My most recent ex narc broke up with me so I asked him to leave my house. He later referred to this as me kicking him out, as if it was nothing to do with him ending the relationship. I think he actually expected me to let him stay and carry on living with me rent and bill free as apparently he was quitting smoking when he broke up with me overreacted because of this.

1. Give you a false sense of trust early on by giving you a key to their house or giving you the password to their phone/email. This is so you open up to them and give them the same privileges and creates false intimacy. They will take advantage if you give them access to these things. You are unlikely to find evidence of cheating on their phone as they have very skilled ways of hiding it, resulting in you having a false sense of security.

10. Checking up on you, texting/calling too much throughout the day or showing up where you work or gym etc. Offering to drive you to work or insist on collecting you after nights out to "make sure you get home safe". Going through your phone, reading messages over your shoulder, reading or opening letters, emails etc.

It does feel good to finally tell them to fuck off but its bitter/sweet as you have to deal with the heartbreak of losing a relationship, coming to terms with the abuse and dealing with how it triggers your own fear of abandonment and fear of being alone, the loss of money/time/friendships because of this person while the whole time they are hoovering and gas lighting you.

If you have children together it takes it to a whole new level of abuse after you leave as they will use contact with the children as another form of gas lighting and manipulation.

I feel like you were dating an ex of mine Lockcodger!

Even now nearly a year on, I am reading through all your points shuddering at how many of them I didn't see. Took me 6 bloody months to see through the carefully constructed facade. Gut kept telling me something was wrong but I kept ignoring it.

Great series of posts, thank you.

Tea it's great that you are able to spot the red flags now early on and trust yourself to walk away. When I see narcissistic rage, I recognise it immediately and I feel myself going into fight or flight mode even if I can't recognise why consciously at the time. My most recent narc started to look like my ex husband (the highly highly abusive one) which I found instantly repulsive. Again I think this was my subconscious telling me something was seriously wrong with this man when his abuse was starting to dawn on me. I later spoke to his ex GF who confirmed that no, she didn't get a restraining order to "ruin his court case to see his children" but that he grabbed her by the throat and the police wouldn't prosecute due to lack of evidence (also very common)

It is scary how many people out there are like this. I've read as high as 1 in 10 people are narcissists and its heavily skewed towards men.

One thing I will say is record everything, don't delete messages/voicemails as you never know when you may need the police to get involved. I have had very mixed dealings with the police and they were quite dismissive about my ex who was harassing me and making false allegations to my employer. I eventually had to make a complaint and they finally took it seriously.

Another red flag is insisting on "being friends" after the breakup, trying to meet you in person (they want to get their foot in the door to Hoover you back), making excuses to maintain contact such as belongings they never pick up or dragging out repaying money they owe you.

Margo I shudder too when I look back and see the patterns and similarity between them. I guess hindsight is always 20/20 but I'm determined to learn from these experiences and trust my gut more in the future.

I must say OP I can relate to most of your points on this, only after divorcing the twat, and months later did it take for me to resonate with him being a Narc. The thing is you never know you are with one until the damage has already been done.

Omg @caffeineplease please get the help. We are here for you 24/7. ❤️

I wish I had seen information like this years ago. I truly thought it was all my fault and there was nothing wrong with him and it must be me. I'm now going through a very protracted divorce where he is trying to get money from me (without any good reason, he's just trying his luck). The only thing he didn't do was try to talk me down when I threw him out and filed for divorce. I think he must have known by that point that it wasn't going to happen as I'd got doctors and MH specialists around me and obviously wasn't going to speak to him again.
In terms of the spreading nasty stories he comes up with a wild and more crazy allegation about me every time he writes to my lawyers. He's gone so far with the allegations about me it's become a running joke about what he will say next. I really hope that more people get out of relationships like this early now there is a lot more information widely available nowadays.

I would like to add another thing which is addictive behaviour.
Shopping, porn, Facebook (where they can really pretend to be everything they're not) drugs, booze..

Hi @lillymunster my EX is exactly the same, even now he still makes up story's, lies about me, even with A Non Mol Order, Prohibited Steps Order in place, this does not stop him from doing it. The Police are beyond a joke and do absolutely nothing about any of the breaches. So his tirade continues, yet to his friends, colleagues, he is the victim in all of this.

What I struggle with is trying to Co Parent with him. My eldest 2 are 16 and 18 and pretty much talk to him when they can be bothered too, but our youngest who is only 7, does not wish to speak to his dad, and his dad loves using this as another form of manipulation/abuse. It never ends!

@ScarletBitch - I'm sorry to hear you're experiencing the same. The stories they come out with are pretty mad. Sadly the police weren't much help when he started loitering around although luckily that seems to have stopped

Oh yes, that old chestnut. My ex HAD to be in charge of the divorce. His petition made no sense at all, but I thought, well he can say whatever he likes and I know it's all a load of rubbish.

Being crap with money can be a red flag. It is that parasitic behaviour. Buying stuff he feels entitled to, spending imaginary money, and then of course the blame.

My ex certainly doesn't want to be friends but he has done whatever he thinks is possible to keep a foot in the door. Luckily the court ordered that he is no longer allowed in the former family home.

He blamed my behaviour as his reasons for leaving. For a while he kept coming back and barging my space threatening me, which seems an odd thing to do if you are coming face to face with a psychopathic madwoman. The police advised him to leave. A fact conveniently left out of all his court papers.

Abusers live in a fantasy world. For so long I believed his fantasy and I supported it.

Many narcs can't see a project through and many can't hold down a regular job. My ex started so many projects, spent huge amounts of money on them, and decided it was my fault he couldn't carry them through. I know he had this behaviour before I met him. I think it started in his life as a teenager and notably through his previous marriage.

The silver lining of all this is that we can change our behaviour and learn to protect ourselves and our children. The abusers can't do that.

You post from 12:26, that, every single point. So sad to see so many of us are/have experienced these fuckwits!

I have found that most of the official channels don't seem to understand domestic abuse. The hands of the police are tied. I was told by them that although they were unable to prosecute (lack of evidence), it was really important to report. The wheels of change are slow but hopefully by reporting abuse to the police we are making things safer for our children and further generations.

The lies are extraordinary. My ex has vitriol coursing through his veins. He could bathe in it and nothing would happen. His bitter hatred is extraordinary. He is not worth the effort of hating. I have done my time feeling sorry for him.

Yes Old, that's a good point I missed. They often have an addiction of some sort, claim to be "sex addicts", wank excessively and watch porn all the time. The Facebook thing too!!! Towards the end of the relationship with one of my ex narcs, I knew something was up and checked his WhatsApp for messages and there was nothing (not something I would normally ever do but this guy was batshit). When I checked his Facebook, there were hundreds of messages to other women from his home town (where his children lived) calling them sexy etc. Turns out every month when he was going home to "see his children", he was shagging someone else. He had me on a restricted profile so I couldn't see his friends (red flag) so I didn't suspect a thing up until then.

I wouldn't put anything past a narc, especially during divorce/end of a relationship. The majority of what comes out of their mouths is bullshit at the best of times but they take it to a whole new level when you really piss them off. They feel entitled to continue abusing you as they see you and their children as possessions, even long after the relationship is over and they have moved in with someone else.

The asking to stay friends usually happens at the end of a short relationship or when they decided to end the relationship because they suddenly "fell out of love with you" (translation, they met someone else). If you still buy into the facade, they will continue it as long as possible.

If you have been with them long term and, seen their mask slip and are on to their game (and they know it), they will let the mask fall off completely and not try to hide it anymore. Remember, that's who they were all along (most of them can only keep the nice act up for a few months in the beginning, maximum a couple of years). The niceness was an act and what you are left with is an empty bag of shit with nothing but hate and poison to spread.

I agree that many organisations don't understand the insidiousness of domestic abuse. It takes years of being worn down emotionally before you even notice what's happening and start to recognise the pattern. The courts allow these men to continue victimising you by dragging out divorces or child contact arrangements. Most would rather shit in their hands and clap than pay a penny in child support as they don't want to give you money so you can "spend it on yourself" but the child support service in this country is a joke (a whole other thread but still part of the abuse)

I've read though this thread and my heart has sank as so much of it rings true. I'm still with DP but had a horrendous week of arguments. Things that I can relate to are:

1. Love bombing in the beginning - it was insane, to the point where it freaked me out and I finished it for a few days. Got back together but now when he's cold and off with me it always gets thrown back in my face 2 years later that I didn't want his affection and dumped him
2. Constant talk of ex's. I know so much that I might as well have been in the relationships myself. No matter where we go and what we do he can't help but mention them. Never in a particular positive light but it gets me down so much. They all just happen to have mental health problems too...
3. silent treatment when we've had a row. He's kicked me out of his house on a few occasions despite me being very distressed
4. crap presents even though I always feel really ungrateful thinking this. But literally perfume and a 5 pack of knickers. Plus not hearing from him till 1pm on my birthday There's more but that'll do for now. But I'm just doubting myself as maybe I am just hard work and needy like he says I am. Maybe it's my fault it's like this. But I'm so good to him and I've supported him through so much, it hurts that when I say I need him tonight he chooses to go to the pub with his mates