PLEASE HELP - entitled, lazy, hurtful daughter in law

[LillianRose10]

Please can I have some advice, I dont know what to do

Our son has been with his wife for 4 years. We always give them money and pay for food and rent to help them out and we buy gifts for our granddaughters regularly. Which we love to do. We offer to babysit and help out with the house and driving them places whenever possible. We always put their needs before ours even though we cant really afford it. We show them unconditional love at all times. We never interfere and had a wonderful relationship with my son until she came along. We always accepted her and treated her like family. Gave her gifts, time, money, treats, vacations, days out. We have always been very kind and respectful to her. But she is extremely jealous of our family being so close and loving and kind to each other. She is jealous of my other children and grandchildren and makes rude, hurtful comments about favouritism ect.

The problem is. Daughter in law is beyond lazy, manipulative, entitled, rude and selfish. She leaves all the housework, chores, kids and bills to my son. He has to do everything before and after a hard days work while she sits at home on social media. She is very demanding with him. He cant get any rest because of her. She expects everybody to run around after her. She has no respect for anybodys homes. When she brings the kids to ours for Sunday Lunch when my son is at work, she takes over, she makes us feel uncomfortable in our own home, she makes mess everywhere and leaves it for us to clean, throws herself on the sofa and lets her daughters run wild while we try to keep them entertained, she hints at us to go and get things for her and pick things up off the floor for her. (Hubby & I are in our 70's). She snatches the kids off us when we are bonding or having fun. But lands them on us without asking when she wants to go out and party.

My son treats her like royalty. He spoils her with love and luxury. Hes an absolute gentleman and so kind to her. But hes so tired and worn out from her demands and laziness. She constantly hides money from my son. She never stops speaking about money, money, money. She is always hinting for loans of money from us. Always hinting that she wants us to buy her certain gifts and "expensive" gifts and clothing for the children. We do so much for them and we get no thanks for it. She is so ungreatful. If we buy gifts that arent expensive she doesnt even acknowledge them and looks at them as if they are rubbish and makes us feel like its not good enough for her. She never offers to pay for anything. She runs off when its time to pay. But orders the dearest things on the menu and leaves the bill for us. They have often asked for a loan only to see she has gone out and gotten her hair or nails done the following day. Why should I be funding her lifestyle. She has never gotten us a gift or a thank you card. Or even said thank you and meant it, She just wants more & more. She really has it too easy. I don't know many families that would treat her as good as we have.

She is isolating my son from his family and friends. He cannot spend any time alone with us not even 5 minutes. She is too nosey, she listens and eavesdrops to every personal family conversation as we cant get time alone with him, and she repeats it to other outside people but adds her own version of events and lies even though its none of her business and we didnt specifically tell her, she just listens in. So we dont speak personal issues in front of her anymore. I am sick of her running with stories and telling everybody our business. She is constantly putting her own business up on social media too, making an idiot of herself. It is embarrassing. I personally think she needs to give us some privacy with issues that don't concern her.

She constantly tells my son and other people lies about us and puts thoughts in his head, filling him with rubbish, that he sometimes believes. Which causes terrible arguments and she always covers her back and tells people not to say she said anything. Everytime she causes trouble she plays the victim and pretends we got it wrong. Making us look bad. She has already caused huge rifts between my son and his brothers and sisters with her lies and manipulation. They never had any conflict before she came along. He has had issues with many of his friends since she came along. All her doing.

We let everything go and dont say anything to her for the sake of our granddaughters and son as we love them dearly and want the very best for them and want to see them as much as possible. But its getting out of hand now. She has no respect for us, shes bitter and jealous towards us for no reason. We cant handle the lies about us and the horrible treatment my son endures. He is very much in love with her and they will stay together. I dont want to say anything to him because it will cause an argument once she starts playing the victim card as usual and pretending to be nice as pie to us when he's around. And if push comes to shove we dont want her to fill our granddaughters heads with lies about us and stop us seeing them as she is so manipulative.

I dont want to be in her company anymore but I will do so for my sons and grandaughters sake but surely I shouldnt feel pressured to treat her the exact same as my son. I dont see why I should continue to buy her gifts or give her lifts places or do anything for her anymore. Especially since she has started answering us back and saying very rude cheeky comments and undermining us.

Has anybody else been in this situation. What should I do. Should I speak to my son or her? I know it will upset my son and possibly cause an argument of some sort which I don't want to happen.

When your DS phones you up to tell you how horrible she is, yes you can say you love him forever and you will always have his back but you also need to tell him that she is his wife and he needs to solve his marriage problems with her, not keep bringing you in to it.

This x 1000! And yes to stop giving money. When you bail him out, you are enabling her. You're making it easier for him to stay in this abusive situation.

As far as how you behave with her demanding ways, that's up to you. I'd certainly ignore any hints for money or expensive gifts. Whether or not you entertain her in your home when your DS isn't there, again up to you. I probably wouldn't, but it I did I certainly wouldn't be running and fetching for her.

If you do decide to pull back, probably best to start doing it gradually so it's not as noticeable. And start spending some of that money on yourselves so you're around less to be taken advantage of. Weekends away, movies, day trips. You and your DH have earnt that right!

OP you posted asking for help, but my guess is that some of the really good suggestions from other posters aren’t the answers you were wanting to hear. I too would love to hear the other side.

Apart from the fact it is a very odd post, taking it at face value...you are totally enabling your DIL, as is your son. You need to take a massive step back and he needs to grow a pair.

He works 12 hour days and does everything before and after school for the kids and house?

What time do they get up in the morning and eat at night?

Also you lived there, in her home for 6 months and told her to help your son around the house, when you were a guest. That's just rude.

The rest is all a one sided version designed to make this woman look nasty.

Sounds like he is the one playing you for money.

Stop being a mug, dish out blame where it's due (ie your son saying "oh mum I work so hard and do everything at home I really need my rent paid") and keep your nose out.

I’m afraid you won’t get much sympathy here OP. On mumsnet the general consensus appears to be that all MIL’s are narcissistic, interfering old harpies.

If OP was posting about a son-in-law with the same qualities no doubt he would be described as a cocklodger, emotionally abusive and so on...

This must be very difficult for you OP. For what it isn't worth I believe you - please ignore those who are giving you a hard time.

One of the reasons I find your version of events is because my DB was in a relationship v like this. She was a manipulative, selfish cow and she took every cent he had. Fortunately he eventually saw the light, they divorced and he is now happy with someone who appreciates him.

I'm not sure what the best strategy is for you, apart from supporting your DS and DGC. Encourage your DS to do what is right for him and his kids. Her behaviour sounds like coercive control to me -which is a criminal offence - but be careful of getting involved on this level unless your DS needs help in challenging this and comes to you or others for this.

BreakYourselfAgainstMyStones. How about you stop being rude and judgemental. Get some facts right before you spout rubbish. How dare you. They lived in my home. I never lived with them. Maybe try and clarify things before you jump to conclusions.

OP you've had a lot to deal with in this thread. I'd say you need some time away from their family, I also think stop helping t hem so much and tell your son he needs to talk to his wife. I do think though that you need to relax and give her the benefit of the doubt too, people can look like they're always on sm, or not helping at all, but even if you lived with them you may not be seeing the full picture. Your son might only moan when he's had a bad day and not tell you how great she is the rest of the time. When she lets the kids run wild maybe she thought that since she's at a family members house she'd get a break, maybe she's a rotton cook or they have their dinner earlier and she asked your ds once or twice to get a takeaway. My dmil has told me I'm always on my phone and literally I'll be on when the kids have gone to bed and she's called over, or she's said we get take away all the time just because she's rang when we're at the takeaway ( once every 2/3 weeks!)

LillianRose10 you did explicitly say at 14:10 "I lived with them for 6 months". It's a bit unreasonable to be offended when people believe you.

OP, as almost everyone else has said, you need to stop funding their lives. It’s not good for you (clearly), and it’s not good for them. DH and I currently owe both sets of parents a fair bit of money. We should be able to pay them back in about 2 months, but it makes us feel uncomfortable owing it and sometimes we feel under pressure to follow advice more than we usually would. Neither set of parents would do that intentionally, but it’s hard not to feel beholden when someone has bailed you out.

If they are spending beyond their means (and as they are married I say “they”. They are financially connected and make decisions together) then they need to learn to stand on their own two feet and aren’t likely to do so if you are subbing them. It would be hard for your DS to have a conversation with your DIL about why she needs to work (which I suspect would help in all sorts of ways) if they aren’t under any financial pressure.

The exact details of their relationship are, unfortunately, not your concern. Your DS is an adult. You can support, and be there for him, but if he chooses to be with someone that is his choice. Perhaps there is something he feels he gets out of this relationship that you don’t see, perhaps he feels it would be wrong to abandon the family unit, especially as he probably wouldn’t get custody of the children. It must be hard for you to see your DS struggling, but it isn’t your job to fix it. You can’t change her, and you can’t change DS. As another poster has said, even if they separated it wouldn’t fix everything. He would still be tied to her via the children, and might well end up in another similar relationship (that seems to be what people do).

Take control of what is in your control. Stop giving money, and calmly explain (in an email if it’s easiest for you) that you no longer have the money to subsidise them. If you feel it would be too hard on your DS to do this suddenly, you can always say that you can only afford to do it for another x months (3, perhaps). If babysitting isn’t convenient for you, say so! Don’t buy presents that you can’t afford. Small children don’t care about the money.

You aren’t happy about how she acts at your house. I’m afraid that might be something you just have to put up with. Perhaps she grew up with a very different dynamic? I always feel quite awkward at my In laws house. I never feel like I get the balance right between being helpful and being in the way. Different families do things differently.

You are upset that she snatches her DC away from you when you are bonding/having fun. This is one thing where I think I might not be entirely on your side. Pretty sure my DMIL thinks I do this. But my DD is MY DD, not hers, and if I don’t like how she is playing with her, that is MY call, and it is your DILs call with her children.

Regarding your son doing all the housework. What happens if he just doesn’t? Can he manage with a lower standard?

Fundamentally, if it really is all that awful, either they will split up or they won’t. But neither way will your DS be completely separate from her because they have children. So you need to be available to emotionally support your son. But don’t financially support them.

Did you live with them, or did they live with you? That’s two quite different circumstances.

I also lived with them for 6 months.

Sorry for misunderstanding your exact words

You need to stop running your lives around your son and daughter in law. You sound like you literally don't have lives yourselves. Leave them to get on with it. Your son chose this woman. She sounds appalling, but it's his choice. Let him deal with it and the fall out. Just be there for the grandchildren - in moderation. Get on with your own lives and stop obsessing about theirs. Stop with the presents, gifts and attention. Stop. Get on with your own lives .

Actually it sounds like he's in an abusive relationship

To those posters piling on saying OP should leave her DS alone, or that he married her so it's somehow his fault - do fuck off and think about how you'd respond if OP was posting about her DD and her H behaved like OP's DIL behaves.

I don't actually know how to help someone out of an abusive relationship, but I'm sure more knowledgable posters will be able to point you in the right direction. Maybe the Freedom Project?

Step back for God's sake. Your lives are way too intertwined. Stop giving them money. They 're adults they can fend for themselves.
You say you get no time alone with your son but he has time to moan about her to you so maybe use that time more constructively.
You are not going to change her so change your own behaviour. Block her on fb etc.
I have to say I am suspect that she doesn't work but apparently never changes nappies or feeds her children but your son works 12 hr days. Are you not concerned that the children are sitting in shitty nappies starving for hours on end or have you maybe exaggerated slightly?
You dont like her, that's fine but this bitterness and hatred will get you nowhere fast.

I'm going to take your post at face value, as there are women like the DIL described by you, although not many. I feel uncomfortable that lots of posters don't seem to acknowledge abuse when the perpetrator is a woman, or believe that it happens.

Aside from disengaging and letting your son know that you are there for him if things change, I don't think that there is anything that you can do.

I know the type of woman you mean; she sounds awful but the facts are this...

The only person that can alter the dynamic of that relationship is your son so he either needs to grow a spine and change it or keep quiet.

Don't give them anymore money unless it's for some kind of emergency, tell him you have to watch your pension pot to ensure you and dh don't run short. They will never sort out their finances until you do this.

Heres one that I personally think will have her squirming...suggest to son of they're having financial difficulty that you and dh would be happy to assist with DC childcare if she goes to work (if she's asked to work she will use that as an excuse)

No more expensive gifts and if she turns up her nose up at what you give, whittle it down to nothing.

Instead of having her over on a Sunday what about you can suggest that she has it as a "rest" day at home. You and dh can spend time with the grandkids without her swooping in with jealousy, and treating your home like a doss house.

No more lifts for her to and from anywhere you and dh are "busy" any correspondence to be done by text not over the phone so she can't twist anything.

Hope this helps

Assuming your DIL is as bad as you say, then I agree that you are far too involved and you need to stop giving her money.

From 8.30 until 5 oclock the kids are in school, after school club and the smaller one is in creche.

If this is true, how are they paying for creche and after school club if they are struggling to pay rent and for food? If DIL doesn't work then they should not be paying for these things.

I also think people like this exist but I think it’s up to your son if he wants to live like this. You say he loves her and they will never split up so he must be getting something from it.

Fwiw I used to think a friend was lazy as whenever our families got together she sat down with a glass of wine and her husband did absolutely everything with the dc from changing nappies, playing football, cooking, whatever and she ignored. When I got to know her she confided that he was very domineering and wanted to be in control of everything eg if she was cooking when he came home from work, he would take over until it was easier for her to sit down and watch. All his family were the same with her. It was as if she had no role. I saw it all quite differently when she explained the dynamic.

The situation you describe sounds awful.
Have you though how she might describe it from her POV?
Step back a bit. Give less and expect less. If you are eating out say upnfront you all need to split the bill.
Accept that your son is responsible too. He will be aware of a lot of this but accepts it. Sounds to me as if he is knowingly or through laziness complicit in a lot of this. Don’t target all of your unhappiness on her.
Try to accept that you just don’t like her behaviours very much.
Try very hard not to start ‘family war’ about this and don’t speak to her.
Step back and through your behaviour don’t let her keep getting away with things. Why on Earth are you loaning her money etc when all it does is give you reason to struggle and criticise how she uses it ? Don’t talk to your other children about it - it will get back.
Good luck op. Most important thing is not to endanger your relationship with your dgc and wider family/other dc of your own.

I meant ‘don’t speak to her about all of this’ not just ‘don’t speak to her’ !

OP, I recognise a huge amount of what you describe. Your DIL is a coercive controller.

The advice at the top of this thread is spot on:

Don’t say a word. Not to him or her. Especially not her. The moment you do, she’ll cut you off completely and you’ll never see him or your grandchildren again. It sucks. It’s awful but do not do it. I’ve seen this so many times. Until he wakes up and dumps her you are stuck. You smile sweetly while plotting behind her back. You minimise the time you see her alone. Stop giving her money. Don’t tell her anything. Shut down your social media so she can’t see anything about you. Distance yourself as much as possible from her while trying to invent excuses to get your son to yourself. Your toilet has broken, car broken etc can he help you out in an emergency. Make something up. You are going to have to be very very careful and very very sly. Be absolute seeetness and lovely to her face. Play the long game. If she’s as bad as you say then he will dump her eventually.

If you call her out, she will isolate you from your DS and DGCs.

If your son leaves her, she claim to be the main carer for the children and your DS will have to drag her through the courts to get sporadic contact with his DCs. She will drip-feed misinformation to the courts and to the children about him and try to turn them against him.

You need to be very careful not to criticise her to your DS. At best ask questions - the ones you already know the answer to because of the history but will highlight to him that her behaviour isn't normal or reasonable. In a similar situation, I asked my DD why her boyfriend would ever want her to feel like she was drowning. I made out that I was puzzled and genuinely wanted to understand but it was really just to highlight to her that it wasn't something people generally do or accept.

Never react angrily to her behaviour to her face or to his. Make sure you never provide any evidence for her to use against you.

I hope you can protect yourselves financially while also maintaining contact with your loved ones

If you are in your 70's, how old is your son? In his 40s?

If they've only been together 4 years, what was his situation before that? Did he live with you until they got together? Has he had other relationships?

Have you always funded him? Who did all the housework/laundry before she was on the scene?

Sorry to say it, but your son is a massive part of the problem here. He is enabling her behaviour while not giving his patents a second thought.

And what kind of self-respecting adult male accepts loans from his elderly parents anyway?

He is just as much at fault here, so you must take off the rose-coloured specs and stop bankrolling them.