Debt and my husband have fucked our future

[Smidgen15]

Hi All

Im heartbroken

I found out this morning that my husband had 4 secret credit cards....
I knew of some debt but not any of this.

We are supposed to be starting IVF (for a sibling for my DS) in 2weeks.

I feel robbed of potentially owning a house, my son has been robbed of a sibling.

I cant eat or sleep. Im mess

Perhaps my hubby will see where i was coming from. It soon escalated into a nasty argument... we rarely argue so its clear its getting to us both.

At his age, be prepared to wade through treacle. He lied to you big time and only cried because he got caught out. He's unwilling to get on board with shoring up your finances and getting out of debt. You rarely argue probably because you used to be content to just dodge along whacking stuff on credit.

In all fairness, he only got his spends yesterday.

I suppose i should give him a chance. Surprisingly, he is good at not spending money... well, his money anyway...

Ive just sold my camera so that £610 we have made overnight.
We have a holiday in May (yes, i know) but we have almost paid the lot off so have to go. So no more meals, takeaways until after then at the earliest.

Do give him a chance!

We use YNAB (You Need a Budget). It's an app where you set your priorities for spending, and set up categories and fund them based on that, and then every time you spend something the money in the category goes down. So you can always see at a glance where you are.

So for instance, my DH likes to buy food at work rather than take a pack lunch. Many and various dietary reasons for it, it would be much cheaper if he'd get organised and take food from home but he won't, and it's not worth the argument. Sometimes, a harmonious life means takign a small financial hit, as long as you are clear it's a priority. So he'd rather prioritise his lunch spend in the shops, and I'd rather prioritise a decent haircut, or whatever.

He gets a category in YNAB called "DH's Lunch" and we fund it every week (rather than every month). Once it's gone it's gone - and it's easier to monitor over a week than a month. If you spend a lot on Monday and Tuesday there's less days to wait before it's topped up, but if you spend a lot in Week 1 & 2 there's a long time to wait til the end of the month. It has really stopped him spending randomly and not realising how it all adds up.

So you could have similar - and it sounds like something your DH might be on board with?

Have a look : www.youneedabudget.com
There's quite a lot of threads on MN too if you search.

It's also really good for payment schedules that are two-weekly or not monthly - basically it's trying to break the cycle so you end up ahead.

You've made a great start. Just be kind to each other cos it's a long slog.

What you both need is accountability. A joint account that’s accessible online which is for bills only. Sit down and figure out your fixed outgoings (rent, council tax, gas, electric, insurance, loan, any other direct debits that are crucial). Move all direct debits to that account. Figure out what you’ll each put in each month to cover bills from your wage. Then figure out how much you need for food each month and who’s going to pay for it - you could also put this into the joint account but it means sticking to a budget and not just buying whatever takes your fancy.

You each then have a basic current account and a savings account. Personally I like to put all my excess money after bills into a savings account and then transfer what I need to my current account throughout the month - I don’t like taking money out of savings, so I’m more likely to think about whether I need to buy that. Agree to how much you will put into savings each month and hold each other accountable. If a big purchase needs to be made, you need to talk to each other first. I would suggest a joint savings account so you can see what he’s doing but I suspect you’ll end up saving far more than him so you might want to keep it separate.

The key to all this is to communicate about money which can be really difficult in the beginning. You both have to be onboard and you both have to let the other one know how you’re doing financially. No secrets, no surprises. I wouldn’t like to have entirely joint accounts, but you could try that if you think it will help. The important thing is that you both need to keep track of your incidental spending if you do that or you won’t have enough to cover bills.

My husband and I don’t have a joint account at the moment but each month we check in with each other about how much we have, how are savings are going, how much (if any) debt we have (usually we have none, but we’ve had to make a couple of big purchases lately).

I make most of the day to day purchases of things for the kids like clothes and toys, but if I need to buy something expensive I let him know. We had an hour long discussion about potentially buying a new laptop for his work a couple of weeks ago, then our boiler broke down and we had to replace it, so that’s on the back burner.

Shop around for everything. Use something like quidco. Google voucher codes before you order anything.

Surprisingly, he is good at not spending money... well, his money anyway...

Why am I not surprised? He's great at spending other people's money! I wouldn't have a joint account with him, he's liable to clear it out after he goes through his spends.

Also, the thing about YNAB is that it forces you to see where you HAVE to spend money, and where you WANT to spend money.

So for the 'fuel and spends' amount of £200, I'd split it out to 'petrol' and 'spends' and put £100 in each. Because, realistically, even if your DH runs out of his £200 before the end of the month, he will still fill up his car if he runs out of petrol.

One thing is an essential - petrol to get to work.
One thing is optional - Greggs sandwich.

On 28th of the month he can live without the Greggs if he's run out of money in the 'spends' category but he can't live without the petrol to get to work.

So it's better to be honest and realistic in the first place rather than wing it and then have to scrabble about.

Has anyone mentioned a Monzo card? It's a pre-payment card and you use an app to control it. I transfer my food money at the start of the month and it means I don't have loads of transactions coming out of my current account and confusing things. Plus you can do a round up function so a £5.86 spend becomes a £6.00 withdrawal with the difference going into a savings pot.

Just had a look at YNAB and it looks great but only works on US dollars and outside of the US you have to import files from your online bank account. I would totally have done the trial if it worked properly for the U.K.!

@LifeBeginsNow my monzo card is a current account, I thought they'd switched them all over now?

It's good to be frugal.

Tell yourselves that cooking from scratch (preferably seasonally), charity shops, buying more economically, using the car for essential journeys are helping the planet, as well as saving you money.

There's a frugal living topic on here, plus the very friendly Old Style Money Saving forum on the Martin Lewis Money Saving Expert site is well worth a look.

Squirrel, i had a look the other day when you recommended it but i couldnt work it out. I will have another look.

Taim -in all fairness and by no means im not sticking up for him but he is hardly spending other peoples (so to speak, except the loan company) unless im missing something and i am completely clueless. He has never missed a payment.
He has just got himself stuck

So, currently we have a joint account where we both put £800 in. That covers the car and utilities.
I then have 3 accounts, one for my wages and DD's to go in and out from. My 'spends' account and a savings account.
All hubby has is one account. We are going to open another basic account so he then transfers his spends money into and the childcare money and then he leaves the other account alone... well alone.
The problem is, i would like it so all he ever has in that account is to cover his DD and i would then transfer the rest into my savings account but because he is 2 weekly paid, its bloody hard to work it all out.
Currently we are not even looking at his account (apart from to check he has enough cash in for DD) until March 15th and at that point, he would have a whole months wages in there. My aim is to then work out what/when DD's are coming out and transfer the rest into savings. And then do this every month. Im hoping that will work.
He will, at some point have to be trusted to do all this himself... i cant mother his account forever..
Quite funny, he is old enough to be my father and yet it feels like im parenting him... whats even funnier is im half to blame and i aint got a scooby!!!!

YNAB isn't just US dollars - you tell it what currency you want to see it in!

And the import from your bank account isn't impossible - you can't do direct import but all UK banks supply files that you can download and import yourself.

But we just input every spending transaction into the mobile app as we go, and reconcile later. It's better that way in my opinion as you never have a lag where you're waiting for the bank and your categories are always 100% accurate.

It's honestly a great system - it has a learning curve but it will change your attitude to spending, budgeting and saving.

Loads of UK users, honest. The support staff are also super helpful.

Why don't you just transfer most of the DDs (yours and his) into the joint account, and leave your personal accounts just for spending money?

Surely that's the simplest thing to do?

I'll tell you what we do in case it helps:

My account (personal spending)
His account (personal spending)
Joint account (bills)
Cashback credit card (joint spending e.g. groceries, petrol, kids stuff)
Joint savings account

I'm paid into my account, and he's paid into his account.

We both transfer most of our wages into the joint account.

That covers all the direct debits for bills, and the direct debit to pay off the credit card in full. No one withdraws cash from this account or spends from this account.

We put pretty much all our other spending on the cashback credit card, and pay it off in full each month. All groceries, petrol, kids expenses, car expenses, holidays, eating out, gifts, you name it.

Then our personal accounts are for things only we prioritise - expensive haircuts or shoe obsession or drinks/ meals out with friends if we're not together as a couple, etc.

We just use YNAB to track the joint account and the cashback credit card. Personal spending stays out of that - what DH blows his spends on is none of my business and vice versa.

Thanks Squirrel

Having his DDs coming out the joint actually makes sense and we will be able to see exactly how much we are saving.

Unfortunately he won't change the habits of a lifetime overnight. It could be that while he is relieved not to have the pressure of ivf - emotional and financial - at the same time it may have temporarily removed the focus for budgeting. If he can see an end goal he may find it easier to compromise his lifestyle and change mindset.

@ Smidgen15

You could also make some savings by switching utility suppliers, try uswitch or compare the market or just contact your existing ones and negotiate a new contract. I use top cashback too for any online payments and get quite a bit back.

Well done on taking control. &

Oh that’s weird - in their FAQ it says it’s only in dollars, maybe I misread it

Good on you for trying, OP.

I found YNAB too complicated for me.
I do something called the envelope method. Basically, I withdraw cash for the month and put it in different zip-lock bags. So, one bag for food/spends, etc for each week of the month, one for petrol, one for kids stuff and one for random extras like clothes, stuff for the house etc. So, on Monday, I just put in that week's money and I can see how much I've spent and how much I have left. It's a lot easier for me.

There are many ways to budget. You just have to find what works best for your family. Good luck!

I mean I transfer that week's money to my purse. I just pay cash for everything. It just helps me know how much money I have without needing to track everything all the time.

Surprisingly, he is good at not spending money... well, his money anyway...

But surely if that is the case and he is 55, he would have significant savings now, rather than significant debt? Has he ever had savings, has he ever owned a house?

DH and I are similar age - our cohort were very lucky with low house prices when younger, but I appreciate that he may have been a home owner and his luck changed or not owned for any number of reasons.

Surely paying off the debt and buying a house should be a priority now, given that renting when retired will not provide security. Have you discussed this with him, and pointed out that you are on borrowed time in terms of getting a mortgage based on joint income?

Can he not see that short term pain to pay off the debt will give long term gain, in maybe being a house owner when retired.

This is how I am approaching saving with my DD18, to try and stop her frittering her retail wages, and save to go travelling, but she is still a teenager. I couldn’t live with a husband with that attitude.

Hi Sophie

Hubby rarely spends any money during the week, its the weekends and i have a part to play in that.
He did own a house in the 80's, im not entirely sure what happened but he had to sell it, so im assuming he sold before he lost it. That was a whole different time, he was young with a wife and young children... he clearly didnt learn from that.
Paying off his debt is our main priority at the moment. Due to his age, he cant go on a DMP or he will never regain his credit rating. We should be debt free in 5 years.

We NEED to buy a house. Ive told him this and he knows but he thinks because of his age and the debt we are in, its going to be impossible.. i think it is possible..
But....
The only way we can do this is with (sounds awful but the reality) is with inheritance. We do stand to get a decent amount but not sure if it would be enough to use as a deposit on a house.

It's a real mistake to rely on a forthcoming inheritance to buy a house. There are a lot of ways this can fail to come to pass. Because he's so old, it will not be easy for him to get a mortgage after you pay that debt off. I'd look at how you can do this off your own back.

I hope he gets on board.

I'm almost 50 and quite frankly, barring disaster, I'd be embarrassed to be in the state he's in at his age with grandkids running round, much less buying drones and spunking money on Gregg's when I was in debt to so much and after my wife had caught me lying about it all.

But presumably you have no idea when that inheritance might come (am guessing it’s his side as he is older). What if care is needed, it could eat away at a lot of the money, so an inheritance is never guaranteed.

It sounds like he maybe is not convinced that you will be able to get on the housing ladder again, and he really needs to be, so that he buys into the paying off debt and building a deposit scenario.

Agree don't rely on inheritance. They too may have debts to settle (bad habits were learnt from someone) or randomly decide to leave it elsewhere.