I want to get my feelings about dh off my chest; bit of a long drawn out rant, sorry, feel free to ignore!

[Mossy]

I've been trying my best to get over the way dh acted towards me in the last few weeks of my pregnancy and now ds is born but I'm finding it difficult so just wanted to get it off my chest.

For the last few months of my pregnancy dh withheld sex; he later told me this was because he had found the whole huge, stretchmarked, lying on the couch exhausted in a comfy dressing gown thing a huge turnoff.

As soon as I went one day overdue he started heaping the pressure on for me to be induced. In the end I bowed to the pressure at +15 days (my decision too, as I could see my maternity leave ticking away, but if I'd had more support from him I may have stuck it out longer) and it was horrible.

When ds was born, for the first week he was the doting father, changed nappies, cuddled him, bathed him etc. but as soon as the crying started dh's interest just waned and it was all down to me; especially as this co-incided with his paternity leave ending.

When ds started wanting to bf round the clock at about three weeks (as it was the only thing that would stop him crying) dh's solution was to try and pressure me to ff him.... not so I could get a rest, oh no. So that I could "at least sweep the hall and wash the dishes" because it was the first thing he saw when he came in from work.

Dh was convinced I had pnd and this was the reason why I was in tears most of the time, nothing to do with his complete lack of support and his going on about the housework not being done, and pointing out that I should be doing exercise by now to lose the weight and stop scoffing chocolate in such copious amounts.

So I went to the Dr. and got put on 20mg Prozac a day.

It made it a lot easier for me to deal with ds' constant crying, and with me finally getting some excellent rl bf support, and with him simply getting older (11 wks) his crying has calmed down and he is much happier. So now the housework does get done.

Dh thinks that ds' increased happiness is because "happy mum = happy baby" with the implied criticism that ds was unhappy because I was.

Dh and I sleep in separate rooms, initially this was a week-day arrangement to enable dh to get enough sleep for work, and then we'd sleep in the same room at the weekend and I would feed ds but dh would settle him after a feed. But now it's every day, with the clause that at weekends, dh will take ds off me for two hours to enable me to lie in.

Initially this was bonding time; dh would take ds for a walk around the park in his baby carrier thingy; the last few weekends now ds is happier and less demanding, it has been dh lying on the couch watching telly with ds in his baby bouncer being "good" (i.e. quiet).

Dh does do all the cooking. But even this is because if I cook I might - horror of horrors - not cook everything from scratch and might for example occasionally use a jar of sauce to save time.

And now he keeps making pointed comments about money, and that my maternity leave comes to an end "really soon" (September) and I had better start looking for a job soon (I don't plan to go back to original job).

Now ds is a lot easier to look after, and I can whizz around getting the house work done. It's not difficult, and as for the nights, I just put myself to bed earlier and have learned to feed lying down. So it's not as if dh's actions are putting me out any more. But I just wanted to rant. Not particularly after advice as such; the only question I have really is, what the hell has happened to the loving, supportive dh I had for the first seven years of our marriage?

Mossy, my marriage is a bit of a fiasco at the moment, so what do I know..but I do think if it was good before, it will be good again.
My advice -Don't try to be nice and don't try to please him.
If anything he says puts you down don't allow it!
His job is to look after you at this stage.

His relationship with the baby will develop in time, I wouldn't worry about that.

It is still really early days. All this passes. Try and maintain a sense of humour with your dh about how things are.
I find when I have a baby, I fall totally in love with the baby, am exhausted and lose all interest in sex for a while. And dh just gets blown out for a bit. But I do need him there in the background holding firm. sometimes men need to be given clear instructions.

Luckily my dh is oblivious but that's a whole other thread

I'm shocked by this account of what's happening to you. I think you need to think about how to get across to him that you're actually unhappy and continue to be. It must be terrifying as your relationship is at stake, and I can understand that it would still be extremely hard to just give up after 7 years. But, I think he has to know how you feel now, your relationship seems to be on the line.

I agree you need to talk with him

Its normal for a couple's relationship to be put on the backburner when a new baby comes along, but you feel a build up of resentment due to his lack of support for you and lack of empathy.

I think its really worth having a chat. You don't want a confrontation..how about "I always thought you didn't really like me breastfeeding" or "why don't you give Ds a cuddle, he misses you". You know, coerce him a bit into spending more time with the baby, It sounds as though there is a lot of "stufff" whihc needs airing

How is he at talking? Some men find it really difficult don't they?

Mossy, my relationship's on a parenting business only basis. I am awfully unhappy with it. new babies change everything and it takes a good whilke for everyone to settle into their new positions.

mossy - my DH struggled to get involde with the DS's when they were very little. SOme men just can't engage with tiny babies - they don't 'do' enough. It got much better as they've got older, to the extent that now sometimes I feel left out!

One of the things that we did as a couple was identify some areas that I could ask DH do do things for the baby. SO it was his job to get the change/milk bag ready for going out (and I did write a list to begin with after going out and missing a few essentials) and when DS1 reached about 6 months he would always do the bedtime story (or crinkle a fabric book in front of him) and do baths a few times a week.

I also told him that I needed for him to comfort DS1 and DS2 when they're upset sometimes. I admit, it's generally me that leaps up and cuddles but as time goes by he's got much better.

This stage does pass, but you have to accept that when you do get him to do things he won't do them as you would - remember that good enough is fine!

The comment about your body, your weight, withholding sex etc sounds more serious tbh - I really think he needs to hear how hurtful those comments were and not be allowed to make them again. Dior can tell you where that can lead. If he can't accept that what he said was hurtful, perhaps you need to seek some counselling together to discuss why his attitudes have changed.

Thank you everyone for support / advice.

Dior your post scared me a bit - I don't mean that in a bad way - just that it sounds just like what's going on with me & dh, right down to the sarcastic jokes "if I let you cook we'd be having fray bentos and oven chips for tea".

Spongecake, it's funny with his mil. She did do absolutely everything with her children, both husbands did nothing; even though she would tell dh to do more (and she was horrified to find he wasn't helping at night, "I had two useless husbands and neither of them abandoned me at night!") he has that model to look up to, if that makes sense.

HappyDaddy it is nice to get a fella's perspective. I think he is jealous of all the attention I am giving ds, especially because I am bfing him so the baby even has access to the ol' "love cushions" you know the annoying thing is that if he wants to go in late to work (he has flexi time) he does actually say, "oh I had a rough night with the baby waking..." which is just a complete lie!

As for putting myself on prozac - oh dear I'm working myself up into another rant here - one of the things he said was about how if I was on ad's wouldn't I have to give up bfing? And when I didn't, he almost seemed disappointed! To be fair, it does help me deal with the situation. I have found it a lot easier to cope with the lack of sleep and support! But it hasn't made me like dh any more!

Foxy you've hit the nail on the head, I really don't want a confrontation. But I do have a huge build-up of resentment because of the way he has acted.

Lily I think if I am honest with myself there is an element of that; I am totally "in love with the baby" and maybe dh does feel a little shut out... but then again he acts as though ds is "my" baby and anything he does baby-care-wise is a big favour to me...

Sparkletastic I have suggested ending the separate beds thing on many occasions but he doesn't seem keen he goes on about how bad he is with lack of sleep... I have to be honest, I haven't exactly pushed it, this sounds awful but right now I'd much rather wake up lying next to a lovely little baby even if he is bawling his head off for a feed.

But I don't think he is that fussed either, otherwise he would not mind at weekends.

Teafortwo, the comments about my weight and my body were hurtful, I mean what did he expect? I was heavily pregnant I couldn't exactly make myself into a Bravissimo lingerie model!

I need to have a good think about the best way to broach this with him, as he seems to think everything is better now and I'm not sure I want to "rock the boat". But at the same time, I can't carry on with this level of resentment, or the lack of respect for him I have currently.

Mossy, your DH needs a few hard facts pointing out to him. For example that feeding a new baby takes approximately 8 hours a day - that's half your waking moments pinned to a chair having energy physically removed from your body. That is without rocking, cuddling, bathing, changing or playing with your baby.

Also, does he regard you as an equal? Then you are entitled to a lie-in one morning of the weekend as much as he is. No favours, no grudging offers of 'help' - just turn-taking by two adults who both hold equal responsibility and share equal rights.

Housework IMO should be done as and when there is time. In my case my youngest child is 6 and I am home all day, my DH is out of the house 12 hours a day, so I do most of it. When DS was a baby my time was very occupied with caring for him, so DH did lots of housework.

At the end of the day something has to give, you can't possibly keep up the same level of housework/cooking you would when you don't have a small baby around, if you try you will wear yourself out, feel inadequate, make yourself ill.

I don't think he will understand until you go out all day and leave him with your baby. Who can understand until they have to do it? All the same he is not trying very hard.

My DH struggled to understand just how time-consuming and tiring a small baby is but I made bloody sure he got it in the end. I wanted to stay married and years of resentment are worth taking a stand to avoid.

Anorak I think if I went out all day and left him with a few bottles of EBM and a baby I would get back to find the housework done, but ds in his baby bouncer with a dummy in with dh perhaps talking to him on his way past now and again.

Like I say, it's not that I find it such a bind, now ds doesn't cry all the time, doing the housework; we only live in a little terrace so it's not like I have to hoover and polish the East Wing every day! It's more that I just can't forgive him for his attitude towards me in the early days, and also that I think that now ds doesn't cry so much, he actually expects I should now be doing more, iyswim.

I'm just waiting for the request to iron his shirts every morning....

You really need to have a talk don't you? How would he respond if you say you need to have a chat and then you tactfully bring up some of these points by telling how you feel?

Well last time we had a "talk" it was before I was on the Prozac so he put everything I said down to PND. Now?

I don't know exactly what I want to say to him. It's not that I need loads more help around the house, not if ds is having a "good day" and he's had quite a few of those recently.

What I want to say is

"you were a prick in my last trimester, and I had no support from you as soon as you went back to work, and your suggestion that ds is now happier because 'happy mum = happy baby' and its implication that ds cried all the time because I wasn't happy is a load of bollocks. And there are blokes out there who do more than you; you're not a frigging martyr because you bounce ds on your knee from time to time. And I am finding it almost impossible to forgive you for your comment about finding me less attractive and wanting me to lose the weight and as a consequence the thought of having sexual contact with you now makes me feel a bit used tbh"

but I want to say it without confrontation!

Hmm.

Mossy, I think we all feel so much for you. I do think that at some point this is going to have to be talked about, otherwise this resentment could truly poison your relationship.

But I am very aware that your dc is not even 3 months old - you are still in the aftertremors of the very first shock - I really wouldn't advocate trying to rebuild the house now, with major counselling etc?

The only thing is, you may be able to do a lot of housework now, but that may take a downturn again when your dc gets mobile, also the house will get plain messier! Maybe talking about that now, before it happens, in an open friendly way, could be a starting point.

God I'm trying to sound reasonable but I think we all would like to encounter your dh in a dark alley somewhere. Not helpful however!

You can't avoid confrontation every time. You will never get rid of your resentment if you do. You can be calm and reasonable though.

There are none so blind as those who will not see. I know if I need to get a point across to my DH it can be like banging my head on the wall at first. But if you want to stay married he needs to understand how deeply hurt you are. You can't mend until he shows you that he 'gets it'. And he is never going to 'get it' until you force him to think. Confrontation is not pleasant but your resentment will consume you and kill your love for him if you don't.

As for leaving him to fend for the baby, I would still do it. Your baby will show him how much attention he needs, he can't fob a baby off all day. At the very least he will be knackered, and understand better how much you do.

Choosy I think that by the time ds is mobile I'm going to have to go back to work, not just for the money, but because I think it is the only way dh will see that we have any parity. I wanted to go back part-time (mil is doing childcare for free so we can afford it) but now I wonder if it would just be better me getting a full-time job so there is no argument about who has it hardest.

I don't know about dark alleys but I do want to grab him and shake him and scream "GROW THE FUCK UP!!"

Sorry sometimes you just have to swear.

X posts anorak, I think the best thing actually would be for me to leave ds with him for a night and then he would really see what I do.

I'll get expressing today!

mossy ok i've changed my mind DON'T change your work plans without discussing it with him please please, he must understand that you are seriously considering working full time simply to feel that he is treating you as an equal

though it does sound like a 'mumsnet intervention' is called for

[happy dream of 250,000 parents arriving at his office to tell him to get a life]

Choosy pmsl at the Mumsnet Intervention - I like the idea of that!

Mossy, really feel for you. As you know, my relationship with DH hasn't been the best since DD2 arrived .

I agree with trying to talk about it. My DH simply doesn't realise how hard small babies can be. Could you go out without DS and try to work out a strategy for dividing tasks ? BTW, cooking causes many argumemnts here as I don't consider it equivalent to, say, cleaning the bathroom! Cookiing can be a fun way of relaxing.

Can't help with the sex thing I am afriad, but will have a think.

Mossy how about writing it all down? then think it over, rewrite it if you like, but get it all off your chest. Then email him in the morning at work so he has all day to think about it.
I usually do this by text and then next time I see dh I don't even mention it and neither does he because if he tries to, I change the subject. He takes it on board and it does help I think. He is still captain caveman of course. you can't actually change them, you can only change yourself.
So change yourself into someone who doesn't take any shit!
and also in my experience, you may not like your dh much at present but I'm sure you still love him deep down and the 'feelings' of love will come back.

What is it that scares you about confrontation? If you can get to the bottom of that, it will help. Are you afraid of losing him? Are you dominated by him?

From everything you have said, this man needs a confrontation - big time - as he seems unable to understand that is happening around him. Why are you protecting him from the reality of his own behaviour by NOT saying what you feel?

I'm sorry, but you are behaving like a door mat and being treated like one. If you can't bring yourself to discuss your anger- and get off those drugs that only dampen down your emotions- then how can anything change? If you can't bear to speak to him, then put it in a letter just like you have written here and hand it to him.

I think it is because every time we have a confrontation he refuses to accept any responsibility; it's like he starts from the premise that he is 100% right, whereas I start from the premise that there's nearly always fault on both sides. Confrontation just ends up with him sulking and a nasty atmosphere in the house for days.

In terms of the housework, etc. I am not bothered with the way things are atm, but I know that as ds gets easier to deal with he will expect that I will do more and more.

I think it's more than that though. I just see him in a very different light now. Before, I thought he was quite fair and we had a very equal relationship. Now I think that at best he is your "typical bloke", you know, the stereotype.

Giq you are right that the pills dampen down the emotions, but that does make it slightly easier for me to be objective!

And unfortunately I have decided, objectively, that he has been a bit of a wanker!

Dolly ikwym about cooking. I don't like it, he does, but despite that, it is obviously a huge deal and he must be thanked constantly and bigged up about how delicious his meals are.

Lily I will try writing it down.

But are you allowing him to sulk? Is that going unchallenged? I know my posts may seem harsh, but quite honestly, I am amazed that you are putting up with this CHILD of a husband!

Have you thought about setting out on paper what you want him to do, to make the relationship 50/50? Have you suggested to him that you both need counselling - or similar? IMO I'd say to him that you are giving him 3 months to shape up and behave like an adult, supporting you, showing he loves you and doing his fair share etc - andnot expecting you to get over a birth soquickly. It can take a year toget your body and emotions back on an even keel- the last thing youneed is a husband who is on another planet regarding relationships. If he doesn't smell the coffee, then you really need to think if he is the person you want to be with for the rest of your life. It's not complicated- either he loves you and changed his behaviour, or he doesn't and can't/won't. Don't stand for it mossy.

Message withdrawn

Giq we did try and have this talk, back about six or seven weeks ago. I agreed that I'd take the Prozac, and that I'd try to lose some weight, in return for him not making such a big deal of the housework, and being more supportive of bfing. And I had to fight bloody hard to get those concessions out of him because he was so cold and angry towards me.

The thing is, the weight thing just makes me so angry even now when I think about it. Like, how dare he have a go at me about it when I was still six weeks postnatal ffs? And was constantly dealing with a screaming baby so when tf did I have time to exercise? "I'm not asking you to lose the weight for me! I'm just saying, shouldn't you want to lose it for you?"

And he did stop making such a big deal of the housework... but only because ds' crying improved and I managed to get a bit more of it done. He even said, "when ds is a bit happier we will have to re-visit it."

You know now, writing it down, just makes me feel really angry towards him. The way he behaved... I feel very resentful right now.

Dior do you think our h's were separated at birth or something? When did your h change or was he always like that? My h has always been sulky / moody and has suffered depression in the past, he does seem to go through life thinking that people are out to take the piss out of him ... you know, the funny thing is, he has a best friend that is always saying things like "so and so is out of order taking the piss out of me" etc. and dh thinks it sounds so silly and even jokes about it! Yet he is the same!

Right gonna make myself a nice decaff coffee and calm down.

mossy, i'm on the verge of tears here. and a miserable curmudgeonly hard hearted ancient mnetter.

"I agreed that I'd take the Prozac, and that I'd try to lose some weight, in return for him not making such a big deal of the housework, and being more supportive of bfing."

you poor love!

what a cold hearted childish manipulating bully.

i agree with gig. and you must tell him how you feel and if you can don't let him dictate the terms of your discussion.

i really feel for you - i am shocked, angry and sad on your behalf.

fwiw - i think you are waking up! good luck.

another mnetter with a total charmer - not. how lucky i am with dh.

s/be " and i am a miserable etc etc..."